Do you believe in evolution?

seasalt101

Active Member
i do take the bible literally, and science is no strong point at all with me, i figure the flood made all the water brackish, like you said a giant hyposalinity, so it rains world wide for 40 days and forty nights, i believe that the water rose across the land slow enough for the fish to adjust, on both sides salt and fresh and since saltwater would be more towards the surface and corals pretty much are in shallow water they were protected, i believe the flood cut the grand canyon, as the rockies would rush that water through the flats of arizona, and species such as cats and dogs back then there were not a lot of as they have been specifically bred throughout modern time, back to the corals, i believe they just closed up for a while as they were sun defficient for the rains, so yes two of each land animal, i don't know how big a cubit is but the ark had a lot of them in the measurement...tobin
 

clown boy

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Does that include everything from the smallest protozoans to the largest mammals?
Yes indeed. I imagine that the ark was large enough for them. :)
Noah also took the dinosaurs. Babies, obviously. We know because they have been seen. Google Mokele-Mbembe. Very interesting.
 

clown boy

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
So did the ark have giant freshwater, saltwater, and reef tanks to keep all these organisms alive during a worldwide flood?
I don't think it was a problem. I don't think there was such a thing as saltwater before the flood...
 

clown boy

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
How about plants, did Noah take them with also? From my understanding of plants they don't do so well underwater.
I'm sure he did... but somehow, some survived. Remember the olive branch? That's one of the reasons why I think that there was no saltwater.
If the flood didn't happen, then I guess that means that this website would have to be called colorfulfish.com or something like that.
 

reefreak29

Active Member
Originally Posted by seasalt101
i do take the bible literally, and science is no strong point at all with me, i figure the flood made all the water brackish, like you said a giant hyposalinity, so it rains world wide for 40 days and forty nights, i believe that the water rose across the land slow enough for the fish to adjust, on both sides salt and fresh and since saltwater would be more towards the surface and corals pretty much are in shallow water they were protected, i believe the flood cut the grand canyon, as the rockies would rush that water through the flats of arizona, and species such as cats and dogs back then there were not a lot of as they have been specifically bred throughout modern time, back to the corals, i believe they just closed up for a while as they were sun defficient for the rains, so yes two of each land animal, i don't know how big a cubit is but the ark had a lot of them in the measurement...tobin

a cubit is 18 inches, long cubit 21 inches
 

reefreak29

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Wow, it appears that after several days of debate that this thread finally died. Unfortunately I am bringing it up again.
I have a question and it is only for those people who insist on viewing the creation account as completely literal. I was thinking about the global flood and all and I started to wonder. Noah took two of each kind of animal on the ark and I was wondering if that included two of EVERY species of animal. Does that include everything from the smallest protozoans to the largest mammals?
Ok, I am not trying to disprove anyone's faith but what I am attempting to do is learn where the breakdown of belief in evolution occurs. Many people have stated that they believe in adaptation or microevolution but say macroevolution is completely different. So, I am hoping the answers to this question I asked, again only to those who believe in a completely literal understanding of Genesis, will help me figure out where the problem comes up for understanding the theory of evolution.
I figure one answer I might see is that some species have 'adapted' into seperate groups after the flood, but that sounds almost the same as believeing in macroevolution.
I remember a long time ago in church I was taught that Noah only needed to take land animals. But I was thinking, with a flood the covers all the land, all the freshwater lakes would mix with all the saltwater oceans and the excess water would be freshwater. This would seem deadly to most marine organisms, like using hyposalinity on our tanks but on a worldwide scale. Freshwater organisms wouldn't care to much for the high salinity from the oceans and the all the corals would be wided out. So that doesn't seem like it would work. So did the ark have giant freshwater, saltwater, and reef tanks to keep all these organisms alive during a worldwide flood? How about plants, did Noah take them with also? From my understanding of plants they don't do so well underwater.
The most common answer I expect to hear is that God can do anything. Of course with that answer it doesn't seem like it makes sense to try to scientifically explain anything about creation.
Of course there could be other answers and I would like to hear them, I like to learn what people think so I can figure out their thought processes and maybe develope new ideas.

God can do anything!
 

clown boy

Active Member
Originally Posted by alix2.0
i voted yes because evoloution actually makes sense compared to intelligent design.
LOL you mean it makes sense that a single cell just happened to evolve and it doesn't make sense that God made it?
 

alix2.0

Active Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
LOL you mean it makes sense that a single cell just happened to evolve and it doesn't make sense that God made it?
exactly.
 

alix2.0

Active Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
LOL wow, no offense, but you need to do some thinking...
not to offend or anything, but your religion happens to be very different from my religion, or lack thereof. no god, therefore, no "intelligent design".
so you are trying to say that nothing ever just adapts to another environment, god just "poofs" a similar yet different organism there?
not buying it... sorry?
 

clown boy

Active Member
Sure animals can adapt to another environment, but they do so by changing their habits. Not "evolving over millions of years".
 

shogun323

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Wow, it appears that after several days of debate that this thread finally died. Unfortunately I am bringing it up again.
I have a question and it is only for those people who insist on viewing the creation account as completely literal. I was thinking about the global flood and all and I started to wonder. Noah took two of each kind of animal on the ark and I was wondering if that included two of EVERY species of animal. Does that include everything from the smallest protozoans to the largest mammals?
Ok, I am not trying to disprove anyone's faith but what I am attempting to do is learn where the breakdown of belief in evolution occurs. Many people have stated that they believe in adaptation or microevolution but say macroevolution is completely different. So, I am hoping the answers to this question I asked, again only to those who believe in a completely literal understanding of Genesis, will help me figure out where the problem comes up for understanding the theory of evolution.
I figure one answer I might see is that some species have 'adapted' into seperate groups after the flood, but that sounds almost the same as believeing in macroevolution.
I remember a long time ago in church I was taught that Noah only needed to take land animals. But I was thinking, with a flood the covers all the land, all the freshwater lakes would mix with all the saltwater oceans and the excess water would be freshwater. This would seem deadly to most marine organisms, like using hyposalinity on our tanks but on a worldwide scale. Freshwater organisms wouldn't care to much for the high salinity from the oceans and the all the corals would be wided out. So that doesn't seem like it would work. So did the ark have giant freshwater, saltwater, and reef tanks to keep all these organisms alive during a worldwide flood? How about plants, did Noah take them with also? From my understanding of plants they don't do so well underwater.
The most common answer I expect to hear is that God can do anything. Of course with that answer it doesn't seem like it makes sense to try to scientifically explain anything about creation.
Of course there could be other answers and I would like to hear them, I like to learn what people think so I can figure out their thought processes and maybe develope new ideas.
My personal belief is this. To my knowledge, there was no word in Bible times meaning "World." The term used meant basically land. In fact , in Biblical times no one knew just how vast the size of the world was. Now archaelologists have found proof of a great deluge that flooded the whole Mesopatamian region. That proof lies in the Matrix of the earth.
So I personally believe that the flood did not cover the earth as a whole.
 

jerthunter

Active Member
Ok, so I have gotten a few interesting answers to the question I posed and it is much like I assumed, there are a lot of different opinions. God can do anything was mentioned and if there was an all power being then he could do whatever he liked, but then it seems pointless to try to explain the HOW if in the end it comes down to, 'well God can do anything.' The idea of a localized flood was also mentioned, and although this seems much more possible it does bring up the question about how literally people who believe the bible should interpret it.
 

shogun323

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Ok, so I have gotten a few interesting answers to the question I posed and it is much like I assumed, there are a lot of different opinions. God can do anything was mentioned and if there was an all power being then he could do whatever he liked, but then it seems pointless to try to explain the HOW if in the end it comes down to, well God can do anything.' The idea of a localized flood was also mentioned, and although this seems much more possible it does bring up the question about how literally people who believe the bible should interpret it.
To be honest with you, I think alot of peoples answer may also be, "Because my pastor told me so." The Bible as you are well aware is interpreted many ways. Thus the reason for so many denominations. IMO the the stories of the old testament and if the the world was literally created in 7 days are moot points. People have different views and interpretations in different aspects of Christian theology just as everyone does with laws of ethics and its ok. Some here believe that we shouldn't eat meat and I say bring it on. Neither are wrong.
To me, just like science Christianity is journey and we will never have all of the answers.
 

mr. guitar

Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Sure animals can adapt to another environment, but they do so by changing their habits. Not "evolving over millions of years".
Yep 100% correct!
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Sure animals can adapt to another environment, but they do so by changing their habits. Not "evolving over millions of years".
Here we go again...Habits? Habits? So bones, body plans, genetic makeup are habits? You yourself said that there was no salt water before the flood. Not that I agree with that ridiculous statement, but if it were true, then it isn't a habit that changes kidney structure and function to deal with salt water - it is changes in the nature of how a kidney functions. To say that habits change is to embrace Lamark, and his thinking has been shown many times to be incorrect. Habits? Wrong again, Clown Boy!
 

clown boy

Active Member
I was talking about Jerhunter's reference to animals adapting to new environments... like the coyote, for instance. I wasn't talking about the origin of species...
 

clown boy

Active Member
Jerhunter, I was reading through the past pages of this thread, and I came across that whole issue with someone saying that you shouldn't say the word "god" with a capital G unless you are referencing the Christian God. I don't see what you see so offensive about it... believe it or not, I actually learned that in my elementary grammar books... and no, I didn't go to a Christian school...
 

jerthunter

Active Member
Originally Posted by shogun323
To be honest with you, I think alot of peoples answer may also be, "Because my pastor told me so." The Bible as you are well aware is interpreted many ways. Thus the reason for so many denominations. IMO the the stories of the old testament and if the the world was literally created in 7 days are moot points. People have different views and interpretations in different aspects of Christian theology just as everyone does with laws of ethics and its ok. Some here believe that we shouldn't eat meat and I say bring it on. Neither are wrong.
To me, just like science Christianity is journey and we will never have all of the answers.
I have to agree with you that we will never have all the answers. It is really sad to see people who insist they have all the answers and are unwilling to explore other possibilities.
 
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