Do you believe in evolution?

clown boy

Active Member
Believing in Millions of Years
Does Not Fit with Romans
Many Christians claim to believe not only this verse from Romans but also something that
says exactly the opposite. They want to believe that the earth is very old and that the days of
the creation week were not really days but long periods of time. They say that during those
long periods of time--—way before God created Adam and Eve—animals, like dinosaurs
and others, roamed the earth. They want to believe both evolutionary scientists when they
say that the earth is billions of years old and the Bible when it indicates otherwise. That
desire gets them into theological trouble. If animals lived and died for millions of years
before Adam and Eve were created, then death came into the world long before mankind
even had a chance to sin. Death, therefore, could not be a result of Adam’s sin. However,
death before man cannot be because Romans says:
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death
passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." – Romans 5:12
The Bible makes it very clear that Adam and Eve’s sin caused death; it was not already a
part of the world when they were created.
Millions of Years of Death
"O death, where is thy sting? O grave,
where is thy victory? The sting of
death is sin; and the strength of sin is
the law. But thanks be to God, which
giveth us the victory through our Lord
Jesus Christ."
I Corinthians 15:55-57
 

ozmar

Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Dr. Schweitzer’s team became convinced that the T-rex bone contained heme...
So... how old did they conclude the bone is?
And please provide a link to the reference.
Thanks!
Ozmar the Curious
 

clown boy

Active Member
The Tasmanian wolf has been given the scientific name of
Thylacinus cnocephalus which means "pouched dog".
This amazing creature had a pouch like a kangaroo in
which they carried their young. Animals with a pouch like
this are known as marsupials. Unfortunately the last
captive Tasmanian wolf died in 1936 at the Hobart Zoo in
Hobart, Tasmania in Australia.
Now we can see silliness of this idea of convergent evolution. The odds that random, accidental
mistakes could form one wolf are impossible! To say that random, accidental mistakes could
make a wolf two completely different times would be… Impossible x 2!
 

clown boy

Active Member
Originally Posted by Ozmar
???
What're you confused about?
You said you're a Christian, and that God has your back?
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death
passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." – Romans 5:12
The Bible makes it very clear that Adam and Eve’s sin caused death; it was not already a
part of the world when they were created.
Millions of Years of Death
"O death, where is thy sting? O grave,
where is thy victory? The sting of
death is sin; and the strength of sin is
the law. But thanks be to God, which
giveth us the victory through our Lord
Jesus Christ."
I Corinthians 15:55-57
The Romans verse says death passed upon all man.
The Corinthians verse compares death with sin and the law. Neither which applies to plants and animals.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
The Tasmanian wolf has been given the scientific name of
Thylacinus cnocephalus which means "pouched dog".
This amazing creature had a pouch like a kangaroo in
which they carried their young. Animals with a pouch like
this are known as marsupials. Unfortunately the last
captive Tasmanian wolf died in 1936 at the Hobart Zoo in
Hobart, Tasmania in Australia.
Now we can see silliness of this idea of convergent evolution. The odds that random, accidental
mistakes could form one wolf are impossible! To say that random, accidental mistakes could
make a wolf two completely different times would be… Impossible x 2!
I like a lot of your links, but this is a very bad example.
The Tasmanian "Wolf" was not a wolf at all. Therefore you cannot argue against evolution with it.
 

ophiura

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darknes
I don't want to start a religious debate or anything here. Just curious, what percentage of you believe in evolution.
The reason I ask is that it is so widely taught to be scientific truth, but in actuality is only a theory. There has never been any evidence that supports evolution, but seems to answer the age-old question: Where did we come from? I think that most people believe in evolution because it gives a down-to-earth explanation rather than having to believe that we were made out of nothing.

I have not read this whole thread. But I want to point out that in science there is no "truth" per se. Scientist DISPROVE things, they do not prove them. If an experiment does not falsify a hypothesis (which must be testable), it does so only until another experiment does. It does not make the hypothesis the "truth."
A hypothesis reaches the point of "theory" when over the course of time and research the hypothesis is not falsified through generations of experiments.
Theories in science include relativity, evolution, and GRAVITY.
This is different from the "civilian" concept of truth and theory. They are very different concepts! A true theory in science, that is to say when the term is used properly, is well supported but still not considered the "truth" as we use the term in non-scientific circles. There is a real distinction in terminology that must be understood..in effect, we are not speaking the same language even using the same words.
People must understand this in the debate.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Gravity is not disprovable. Evolution is.
No, actually it's not.
That's my point. Folks from both sides on this throw out things like that statement that aren't factual.
While evolution has many flaws and has never been proven, it certainly has not been proven to be false either.
Darn you Clownboy, you've actually got me arguing on the side of Evolutionists... stop it!
 

ophiura

Active Member
Originally Posted by Ozmar
Agreed. I think the controversy is created by absolutists on both sides who feel that evolution is inimical to faith in a creator deity. Absolutists see evolution as providing a reason to discard the concept of any God to which we must be beholden. If our current state can be shown to be caused by non-divine forces, then we have no "need" of God, and he can be set aside for an atheist world view. On one side, that's desirable, on the other, it is threatening.
I suspect that, for most of us, the two concepts can coexist peacefully. We may be agnostic about one or the other, or we may accept both, but we don't accept the implied dichotomy promoted by the absolutists.
Personally, I am a bit agnostic about evolution - I simply don't know enough to be certain, but it seems somewhat reasonable. I am certainly not against teaching the scientific theories or evidence. And I am not at all agnostic about God. I know He's got my back. :)
Ozmar the Christian
Well written and I am in total agreement, though I AM an evolutionary biologist. :D
I stay out of most of these topics because I am annoyed, angered, etc by the absolute argument from many Christians. The idea that you can denounce me, my thoughts, my beliefs, in a single word and that you are "right" and I'm going to heck. You won't change me, and there is certainly nothing I can do to get you to think about my side either.
I am annoyed and angered by the idea that you can't be a Christian if you believe in evolution. I DO believe in evolution, I believe that evolution is the mechanism of creation. I have been lambasted on this very board for such a thought, by so called Christians, and I resent it. So don't even bother with your holier than thou comments.

I am a species level biologist and believe me, when you look at that detail, a one day creationism makes it look like God just got board and lazy. Don't take this personally. Like "oh gosh, I'm out of ideas... move an arm spine..." But a self sustaining, self perpetuating, constantly adaptable system is glorious when you contemplate it. It is difficult for me to even fathom that greatness. That creation spanned much more than 6 days - a time frame that our pathetic minds can comprehend - when in my mind it always was, and always will be a day of creation. This is what I believe evolution is.
This is how God has reached me...I believe God seeks people in many ways. However he reaches you, that is what is important, no?
This is not intended to start a debate. As I mentioned, I have not read the thread...I do not want to because I will be upset. If you don't agree with me, then so be it, I do not care, and will not change your mind (just as you will not change mine). But I believe, as in many things, the debate is "owned" by the extreme opposites, and there will be no progress and understanding until both concede and communicate. But I won't answer "prove this" questions (read above).
 

clown boy

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
No, actually it's not.
That's my point. Folks from both sides on this throw out things like that statement that aren't factual.
While evolution has many flaws and has never been proven, it certainly has not been proven to be false either.
I intend to disprove this... just wait...
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
I... I... I... um...

Hehe, np. As Iron sharpens Iron...
I respect your opinions and stance, but I want to make sure you are competely factual in what you post.
 

ozmar

Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
You said you're a Christian, and that God has your back?

Yeah. God's on my side. By virtue of my being on God's side. :)
i.e., I like God. He's cool.
Not sure why this is confusing...
 

clown boy

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Hehe, np. As Iron sharpens Iron...
I respect your opinions and stance, but I want to make sure you are competely factual in what you post.
LOL I totally appreciate that... it was just the words you used...
 

clown boy

Active Member
Originally Posted by Ozmar
Yeah. God's on my side. By virtue of my being on God's side. :)
i.e., I like God. He's cool.
Not sure why this is confusing...

Oh. {whew}
 

ozmar

Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Oh. {whew}
Now its my turn to be confused...
What were you
thinking?
 
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