For those that buy into Al Gore about global warming and hate Bush

[rbaldino]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
I love it how my theories get backed-up by science thanks PRK543..but i said this a hundred times...
Actually,
GW its just a cycle that our solar system is going through, it goes through phases...sometimes we're closer to the Sun and sometimes we're further from the SUN..
Yes, when this happens, combined with the position of the Earth's axis, we have seasons. The cycle you're talking about happens over the course of tens of thousands of years, and is not related to the climate change we have measured and witnessed in our lifetimes.
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/seasons_orbit.html
Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
It doesn't matter if polutants escape through the hole in the Ozone layer,into space..Mars or any other planet doesn't have identical atmosphere properties like earth.
Where'd this idea of pollutants "escaping" come from? CFCs have created a hole in the ozone layer, which protects us from the sun's radiation. This issue is mostly unrelated to climate change. Climate change concerns the atmosphere's ability to trap heat, the "greenhouse effect," and mankind's impact on our atmosphere.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
1. But wait....that is caused by the polutants that escaped through the hole in the ozone layer into outer space and is affecting the other planets.....
2.
Do you know what the atmosphere does??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_atmosphere

 

[aztec reef]

3.http://www.enchantedlearning.com/sub.../Skyblue.shtml

"The cycle you're talking about happens over the course of tens of thousands of years, and is not related to the climate change we have measured and witnessed in our lifetimes."
This is the simple equation of why GW is a joke!! period.. how can you even think that we are changing the course of the planets or the way the Sun will keep getting hotter..........
Even if you haven't experienced them, lets say that you only lived through the same solar cycle as your grandpa..well the Sun hasn't got any cooler since your grandpa was borned!!
update on cycles:
http://www.uen.org/themepark/cycles/planet.shtml
You still there??? here's some info on the ocean...http://www.palomar.edu/oceanography/salty_ocean.htm
Like i said the EARTH evolves on its own!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also oceans are importanthttp://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/ocean/
Now, Time has a cycle, too, and it has to do with the earth's rotation. The earth is divided into 24 time zones. They start at the Greenwich Meridian in England where the time is called Greenwich Mean Time or G.M.T. When you move east into the next time zone, you move your watch forward one hour. When you move west, you move your watch back one hour.

 

[rbaldino]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
This is the simple equation of why GW is a joke!! period.. how can you even think that we are changing the course of the planets or the way the Sun will keep getting hotter..........
Oh, I don't know. The billions of people. The hundreds of millions of cars. The billions of tons of industrial waste pumped into the atmosphere. And yes, the Sun will continue to heat up. By your logic, though, we shouldn't ever worry about anything, because in a few billion years the Sun is just going to burn the planet up. The problem is, we may be accelerating that process to the point that it could have a dramatic effect on those of us living right now.
Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
Even if you haven't experienced them, lets say that you only lived through the same solar cycle as your grandpa..well the Sun hasn't got any cooler since your grandpa was borned!!
update on cycles:
http://www.uen.org/themepark/cycles/planet.shtml

That link concerns orbital cycles: days, months, years, etc. It has nothing to do with climate cycles.
Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
You still there??? here's some info on the ocean...http://www.palomar.edu/oceanography/salty_ocean.htm
Like i said the EARTH evolves on its own!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also oceans are important

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/ocean/
I learned all that when I got an A in Oceanography in College. Aside from that, neither of those links has anything to do with climate change.
Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
Now, Time has a cycle, too, and it has to do with the earth's rotation. The earth is divided into 24 time zones. They start at the Greenwich Meridian in England where the time is called Greenwich Mean Time or G.M.T. When you move east into the next time zone, you move your watch forward one hour. When you move west, you move your watch back one hour.
Yeah, think I remember learning all of that when I was about five. What does any of it have to do with the environment or climate change?

 

[oceansidefish]

Aztec would you mind actually explaining your points on your own instead of using points...I really don't have the time to go through and click a million links about god knows what. Explain you points. It will give you at least a little more cred.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by rbaldino
Y
Where'd this idea of pollutants "escaping" come from? CFCs have created a hole in the ozone layer, which protects us from the sun's radiation. This issue is mostly unrelated to climate change. Climate change concerns the atmosphere's ability to trap heat, the "greenhouse effect," and mankind's impact on our atmosphere.

It came from my sarcastic comment that he took seriously...lol...

 

[renogaw]

wow, just read a nice article in newsweek about this. seems exxonmobil is funding scientists who will say global warming is not due to the burning of fossil fuels, and the latest research states that humans ARE contributing to global warming.
very interesting.

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by renogaw
wow, just read a nice article in newsweek about this. seems exxonmobil is funding scientists who will say global warming is not due to the burning of fossil fuels, and the latest research states that humans ARE contributing to global warming.
very interesting.
wow i guess its a good thing we abort thousands of humans each year then.

 

[aztec reef]

My one and only point is this..do you guys even know "Greenhouse Effect" caused by human activity is only about 0.28%,And if water vapor is taken into account-- about 5.53%, if not.
FYI: the main cause of this GW is water vapor that's coming from the melting ice.
"Water vapor constitutes Earth's most significant greenhouse gas, accounting for about 95% of Earth's greenhouse effect . Interestingly, many "facts and figures' regarding global warming completely ignore the powerful effects of water vapor in the greenhouse system, carelessly (perhaps, deliberately) overstating human impacts as much as 20-fold".
NOW, Water vapor is 99.999% of natural origin. Other atmospheric greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4), nitrous oxide (N2O), and miscellaneous other gases (CFC's, etc.), are also mostly of natural origin (except for the latter, which is mostly anthropogenic).
Human activites contribute slightly to greenhouse gas concentrations through farming, manufacturing, power generation, and transportation. However, these emissions are so dwarfed in comparison to emissions from natural sources we can do nothing about, that even the most costly efforts to limit human emissions would have a very small-- perhaps undetectable-- effect on global climate.
that's the MEMO.
http://mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFo...ouse_data.html

 

[rbaldino]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
FYI: the main cause of this GW is water vapor that's coming from the melting ice.
Why is the ice melting?

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
It came from my sarcastic comment that he took seriously...lol...
Actually the one that took it seriously was Rbaldino,lol..
Rbaldino, i'm showing you what NATURE does, and where atmosphere gets most its vapor (CO2) from..they are "naturally made gases" not human made..
Now, all this VAPOR its all over earth's atmosphere and The oceans of Earth serve many functions, especially affecting the weather and temperature. They moderate the Earth's temperature by absorbing incoming solar radiation (stored as heat energy). The always-moving ocean currents distribute this heat energy around the globe. This heats the land and air during winter and cools it during summer. The gas molecules in the atmosphere interact with the sunlight before the light reaches planet EARTH thus how the atmosphere regulates the temperature on earth's surface.
NOW,Our universe has many cycles. hundreds perhaps millions of cycles, yes some cycles happen in a 24 hr period, some in years, some in thousands of years, the cycle that we're going through(GW) eventually will pass,period..
We need to put Nature in its place and get off your scientific egos, cause this happends naturally..we have to keep harmony with earth and how it evolves and understand its course..GW isn't gonna last for EVER period..

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by rbaldino
Why is the ice melting?
ice has been melting for thousands of years, that's nothing new!!! its obvious that if we're closer to the SUN in this solar cycle Earth will be hotter right?
NOW, if the earth is hotter now then lets say 10 years ago. wouldn't we get higher amounts of ice melting???
more melted ice = more vapor(CO2)
more vapor = higher temp
higher temp= GW
GW= more ice melted
more ice melted= rising sea levels
rising sea levels = more vapor in the atmosphere
more vapor in the atmosphere= higher co2 levels
higher co2 levels = NATURALLY MADE GLOBAL WARMING..
I feel like i'm teaching 5 year olds...

 

[rbaldino]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
Rbaldino, i'm showing you what NATURE does, and where atmosphere gets most its vapor (CO2) from..they are "naturally made gases" not human made.
That may be where most of the CO2 that composed the Earth's atmosphere over billions of years came from, but I'm fairly certain that we're contributing an excess of CO2 to the atmosphere, increasing C02 at a rate faster than would naturally occur during the same time period, all while cutting down trees and negatively impacting the environmental processes that keep nature in balace.

 

[rbaldino]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
ice has been melting for thousands of years, that's nothing new!!! its obvious that if we're closer to the SUN in this solar cycle Earth will be hotter right?
NOW, if the earth is hotter now then lets say 10 years ago. wouldn't we get higher amounts of ice melting???
more melted ice = more vapor(CO2)
more vapor = higher temp
higher temp= GW
GW= more ice melted
more ice melted= rising sea levels
rising sea levels = more vapor in the atmosphere
more vapor in the atmosphere= higher co2 levels
higher co2 levels = NATURALLY MADE GLOBAL WARMING..

Then by that logic the ice should have melted a long, long time ago and the Earth's temperature should be similar to Mercury's.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by rbaldino
Then by that logic the ice should have melted a long, long time ago and the Earth's temperature should be similar to Mercury's.

Actually this is where my cycles come in...Your logic would be correct if we were in the same cycle a long, long time ago...as we are right now.
But since the earth was in a different cycle back then, in other words farther from the Sun... it doesn't necessarily mean that the summers where cooler back then. it just means that the atmosphere reacted to the distance between Sun-earth "differently".. thus why there wasn't so much ice melted back then..cause there was no high HEAT(or should i say, we weren't as close to the high heat) and thus why there was LESS water evaporated,LESS co2 levels,LESS heat= NO GLOBAL WARMING!!
The Sun doesn't get cooler!! The earth gets farther. and the atmosphere reacts to it...
Atmosphere is a shield between earth and the Sun. If we didn't have such atmosphere ..do you know how many temp fluctuations EARTH would go through "daily"..
Also the atmosphere holds water .and then releases it... You know, when it rains.. that also has an impact on the temp of course..
You have to understand that the Atmosphere plays a BIG role in EARTH's temp. and vise versa. and the Atmosphere is the co2 gases..

 

[rbaldino]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
You have to understand that the Atmosphere plays a BIG role in EARTH's temp. and vise versa. and the Atmosphere is the co2 gases..
Yes, I understand how the atmosphere works. You have to understand that we generate an enormous amount of CO2 gases, thus accelerating the warming process.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by rbaldino
Yes, I understand how the atmosphere works. You have to understand that we generate an enormous amount of CO2 gases, thus accelerating the warming process.

Did you see the FACTS???????
Greenhouse Effect caused by human activity is only about 0.28%,And if water vapor is taken into account-- about 5.53%, if not.
NOW, if we were going through "Global cooling" instead of GW, in the same exact solar cycle as now(AS CLOSE TO THE SUN AS NOW)..those would be ideal numbers, and we would be thinking about how to increase CO2 instead of trying to decrease it..RIGHT?

 

[rbaldino]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
Did you see the FACTS???????
Greenhouse Effect caused by human activity is only about 0.28%,And if water vapor is taken into account-- about 5.53%, if not.
NOW, if we were going through "Global cooling" instead of GW, in the same exact solar cycle as now(AS CLOSE TO THE SUN AS NOW)..those would be ideal numbers, and we would be thinking about how to increase CO2 instead of trying to decrease it..RIGHT?
I don't trust the validity of those numbers. Have you ever seen smog, Aztec? If so, you can't tell me we don't dump an enormous amount of CO2 into the atmosphere. Last time I checked, I'd never seen smog over a melting ice cap.

 

[renogaw]

wasting your breath. personally am done with this thread, and am happy i'm way above sea level

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by rbaldino
I don't trust the validity of those numbers. Have you ever seen smog, Aztec? If so, you can't tell me we don't dump an enormous amount of CO2 into the atmosphere. Last time I checked, I'd never seen smog over a melting ice cap.

The most important players on the greenhouse stage are water vapor and clouds. Carbon dioxide has been increased to about 0.038% of the atmosphere (possibly from about 0.028% pre-Industrial Revolution) while water in its various forms ranges from 0% to 4% of the atmosphere and its properties vary by what form it is in and even at what altitude it is found in the atmosphere. In simple terms, however, the bulk of Earth's greenhouse effect is due to water vapor by virtue of its abundance. Water accounts for about 90% of the Earth's greenhouse effect -- perhaps 70% is due to water vapor and about 20% due to clouds (mostly water droplets), some estimates put water as high as 95% of Earth's total greenhouse effect. The remaining portion comes from carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide, methane, ozone and miscellaneous other "minor greenhouse gases." As an example of the relative importance of water it should be noted that changes in the relative humidity on the order of 1.3-4% are equivalent to the effect of doubling CO2. NOT SMOG!!
MAYBE THIS WILL HELP A LITTLE http://meteo.lcd.lu/globalwarming/Ca...ing_myths.html