darth tang
Active Member
Those of you following this, your thoughts?
Government and latest about wire taps.
- Thread starter darth tang
- Start date
space_geek
Active Member
In my opinion, its ILLEGAL, and anyone in the government performing this should be PROSECUTED AND CONVICTED...its WRONG!!!!
dogstar
Active Member
Doesn't suprise me. So far from what I have heard, I agree with Space Geek, its illegal. The laws lets them start a tap without a warrent but they have to apply for it afterwards and they never have. I would like to know why not. No ones above the law. Not the President, no one. I have not heard them quote a law that allows them to do this. They say its only extreamist their tapping but without a check then how do you know.
stang66200
Member
Seems illegal to me . . . and using the war or terror to justify anything will not go over forever. It is bad when people from both sides in the aisle in Congress have bad feelings about it.
bergamer
Active Member
a violation of the 4th amendment, which an illegal wiretap is, carries with it no criminal penalties. The remedy for an illegal wiretap is exclusion of the evidence and all evidence that is found because of that evidence. aka fruit of the poisenous tree doctrine.
unless the prosecutor can show that the evidence would have been eventually obtained
or the evidence was obtained by an indpendent source or by an intervening act of free will by the defendant
unless the prosecutor can show that the evidence would have been eventually obtained
or the evidence was obtained by an indpendent source or by an intervening act of free will by the defendant
darth tang
Active Member
Now that I have thrown this out there....what if you were told this has been done on international calls coming into the country during, Carter's, Reagan's, Bush's, and Clinton's administration all authorized by the president.
puffer24/7
Active Member
its fine by me as long as they get the
[hr]
and bush is the one to do it he is the man
[hr]
and bush is the one to do it he is the man
aw2
Active Member
If we've got nothing to hide, individually, then I see now reason why anyone should be worried about it.
Unless you're talking about the massive stockpile of explosives and automatic rifles, that you have buried in your back yard, or assisinating Bush, then I see no reason to be so upset about it.
They're not going to be traveling town to town, placing taps on every single persons phone, in the country. Out of the entire population of the US, I wouldnt be surprised if they used no more than 5,000 - 10,000 taps.
Unless you're talking about the massive stockpile of explosives and automatic rifles, that you have buried in your back yard, or assisinating Bush, then I see no reason to be so upset about it.
They're not going to be traveling town to town, placing taps on every single persons phone, in the country. Out of the entire population of the US, I wouldnt be surprised if they used no more than 5,000 - 10,000 taps.
dogstar
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darth Tang
Now that I have thrown this out there....what if you were told this has been done on international calls coming into the country during, Carter's, Reagan's, Bush's, and Clinton's administration all authorized by the president.
I heard that today but I have not got any details, I think its from a book. Dont know.
IMO even if its true, I dont like it. EVERY Pres. takes an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution.
Now that I have thrown this out there....what if you were told this has been done on international calls coming into the country during, Carter's, Reagan's, Bush's, and Clinton's administration all authorized by the president.
I heard that today but I have not got any details, I think its from a book. Dont know.
IMO even if its true, I dont like it. EVERY Pres. takes an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution.
J
jcrim
Guest
So we all seem to have immense trust in our government. Personally I believe in a separation of powers... so the judicial branch should support such action by issuing a warrant.
How do we know that the action mentioned wouldn't be enforced in a discriminatory manner? Or do we not mind a little discrimination as long as it's not "me" being discriminated against? Personally I think that these bugs would be placed using an arbitrary profile... probably racial.
Are we all ready to throw the constitution out the window? What about each individual's civil liberties?
How hard is it to show a judge probable cause to issue a warrant? Is that too much to ask?
How do we know that the action mentioned wouldn't be enforced in a discriminatory manner? Or do we not mind a little discrimination as long as it's not "me" being discriminated against? Personally I think that these bugs would be placed using an arbitrary profile... probably racial.
Are we all ready to throw the constitution out the window? What about each individual's civil liberties?
How hard is it to show a judge probable cause to issue a warrant? Is that too much to ask?
mimzy
Active Member
I too am on the fence... I have nothing to hide, but the principle of the thing is what's got me upset. How can they trample on our civil liberties like that? What's NEXT to go?
Also, you may not be worried b/c you're not planning to assasinate anyone, and u don't have a secret arsenal...but what if you happen to look Mediterranean? What if you happen to have a relative on an archeological dig in Petra? What if you tell your Mother you forgot to pay two parking tickets?
There are all kinds of things these "secret warrants" could get you for - not just things you'd think are obvious.
Also, you may not be worried b/c you're not planning to assasinate anyone, and u don't have a secret arsenal...but what if you happen to look Mediterranean? What if you happen to have a relative on an archeological dig in Petra? What if you tell your Mother you forgot to pay two parking tickets?
There are all kinds of things these "secret warrants" could get you for - not just things you'd think are obvious.
J
jcrim
Guest
darth tang
Active Member
Currently these actions are being used to stop terrorist activity in the country. What are your civil liberties worth if you are dead?
J
jcrim
Guest
So your argument is that we should have no civil liberties and scrap the constitution because we are all dead anyway... hmm... what a point.
J
jcrim
Guest
Originally Posted by Darth Tang
Currently these actions are being used to stop terrorist activity in the country. What are your civil liberties worth if you are dead?
That's weird, I don't feel dead.
What's so hard about requiring a showing of probably cause based on OBJECTIVE facts to issue a warrant and then use wire taps?
Currently these actions are being used to stop terrorist activity in the country. What are your civil liberties worth if you are dead?
That's weird, I don't feel dead.
What's so hard about requiring a showing of probably cause based on OBJECTIVE facts to issue a warrant and then use wire taps?
dogstar
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darth Tang
Currently these actions are being used to stop terrorist activity in the country. What are your civil liberties worth if you are dead?
How do you know this, the only check ( the secret court ) to make sure of that was not used.
Someone once said " give me liberty or give me death "
To give up our liberty and our laws is like saying the terrorist win.
Currently these actions are being used to stop terrorist activity in the country. What are your civil liberties worth if you are dead?
How do you know this, the only check ( the secret court ) to make sure of that was not used.
Someone once said " give me liberty or give me death "
To give up our liberty and our laws is like saying the terrorist win.