Heres how to REMOVE ICH from FISH safely!

mujtba

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
I don't need a scapegoat. I just want all the facts presented. You can't say all of your inverts were fine when one died... From your Clam post it is clear you didn't think it was sick as you suspected your snail killed it.
I've emailed Chem Marin with my questions regarding their product. I'll post the info, provided they give me permission to do so.
only i know my clams health.. I am not blaming the med, so how can you? I dont even have the slight suspicion of the med.. the 1st 2 days my clam never opened. then it was healthy as hell for few days. then eaten. my other clam opens like a champ... so no, i wont blame the med!
 

nigerbang

Active Member
Originally Posted by robn
Hot peppers! Mama mia !!

I had an idea I posted before...
Garlic....Good for health
Vinegar....You clean with it so it wont hurt the inhabitants
Hot Peppers.....Knocks ICH off...
So check this out...
Garlic Tabasco..Hell if it dont work you can eat it..
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Nobody is going to lab test every hair-brain product on the market. People want nice tanks, not lab tanks where animals and systems will be sacrificed for study. Also, the procedure for determining effectiveness is not by taking samples to a lab. Studies are done by scientists regarding all the treatments, and hobbyist base their opinion and practice on what they have read and studied, and what they have experienced through anecdotal evidence by discussions with others and observations.
So no, I would not put this medication in my tank to experiment. I have experimented with hyposalinity in my QT however. The reef meds...basically I rely on the experts and the evidence. That's good enough for me.
That is not to say that if someone has a 200 gal reef tank, doesn't keep a QT, and ich breaks out that I'd try to prevent them from trying a reef safe med. Breaking down a reef tank would be a tragedy and would effect many lifeforms, not just fish. I would try to give advise on how to proceed in the future, which is to set up a QT and QT all new incoming fish.
 

wattsupdoc

Active Member
I myself do not believe that this product ITSELF is an effective cure. Neither does the manufacturer, which is why they state 99%. I can however see how if it does increase the slime coat, and an increased slime coat will get the ick off the fish, then it could be a useful treatment in fighting ick. But in ITSELF wont rid the parasite from your tank, preventing future outbreaks. I also see how that for some people they may never have another outbreak after using this product. If their husbandry practices are good and the fish are healthy and "happy"(unstressed etc.), they have a good diet and plenty of vitamins, then they can fight the parasite off, however, waning from these conditions can intice an outbreak. If though, you are able to keep ick from reattaching to the host then the lifecycle will be broken and ick would be iradicated from the tank. Yet, let one parasite to be able to attach and the lifecycle continues. In addition, using a pepper based product must stress the fish some, which is probably why the slime coat is increased.
It seems to me that just maybe... this might be a product to use in conjuntion with QT. To use when recieving new fish and introducing to the QT. After all, even a 3 week regimin in the QT cant 100% garauntee that there are no parasites on your new buddy.
The article posted earlier even states that it takes 6 weeks in Qt to be sure there are none. Who here Qt's for 6 weeks? Also I think I saw where it stated that after one year then the strand of ick would die, they couldnt keep any alive longer than that, so if your fish can fight it off long enough, then you would be ick-less. Is thatwhat that said???

I do have a problem with some of the way that things get handled here, its like if you dont have a QT, and you get ick it's your problem and all your fish can die as far as I care. That'll teach you not to have one. I personally have gotten the "take this time to set up a proper QT", and wouild have been left hanging if not for some mild begging. That in my opinion is an aweful approach. It's like FW dips dont even exist in the world in a time of need for an inexperiend aquariest who is desperate to save the lives of the fish s/he loves. The fact is, if the fish doenst survive the dip, he probably wont survive the ick. But if he survives the dip, he may survive the ick, when he otherwise may not have.
Hyposalinity is an effective means of fighting ick, I did it in my DT and havent had an outbreak since.
However, it is a complicated process which has little room for error. It does stress fish. It is a milder level of stress, but is a longer duration. There are from what I've read some fish that cannot take this stress very well. I believe that a hippo tang is one of those. So when you say hypo doesnt stress a fish, you are not correct there. In fact, I believe that I've read were liver or kindey or some other damage may occur from hypo. The time involved in hypo is moslty the problem there. But it certainly feels more "politically correct" to use this method. After all, fish dont flop around while your doing it, as they might in a FW dip.
I think that there might be alot of animocity (sp) amuong some posters here as hypo and sometimes copper are seen as the ONLY viable option to treat ick. And thats why this thread has so much fuel. I definelty do see where there is a degree of close mindedness here. And that should not be. The originall poster being narrowminded in his inability to recognize that he doesnt understand the life cycle of the parasite, while the opposition tried to point this out. Then some of the others who definetly wont recognize other methods as being possible options. though they may or may not be as effective. as a matter of fact, I dont hink I've ever seen anything on how to do a proper FW dip in the archives, maybe it's there. Or even a mention of the transfer or vacuuming method. it seems as these methods should be posted so as to allow the aquariest the ability to make educated decisions on what might work best for them. instead of craming down their throats hypo and QT.
Personally, I will allways QT new additions.
But, I will use other methods also to garauntee a safer environment for my buddies. Maybe Stop Parasite at the introduction to Qt and before moving to DT?
My .02 worth.
 

renogaw

Active Member
i guess why people say qt for 3 weeks is because you should see signs of problems by then.
one thing also--ich can get inside the fish's gills, which is not covered by a slime coat. maybe that's the other 1%?
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by JamParty
I'm going to throw my two cents in because I do believe you all are letting this get out of hand. Let me put things another way. My father was a traditional medical physician for 24 years. He retired, then couldn't stand being retired, so went back into the medical field. HOWEVER, rather than going back to perscription drugs and surgery, he went to alternative medicine otherwise known as Holistic or Homeopathic remedy. He has experienced in 6 years more success rates with a much broader spectrum of patients ranging from Cancer, HIV, MS, Park., and Hepatitus than he ever experienecd with treatment of perscription drugs or surgery. He even cured a 4 year old autistic child who is now associating with his parents on a normal 4 year old level.
My point is this. He underwent a lot of scrutiny in the medical field both from collegues and from friends and family. But he stuck with it, and you know what...it turns out it's a million times better.
Understandabley, this may not make a lick of difference to anyone who is concrete in their beliefs, but to the open minded it provided them with a safe natural method of CURING not TREATING (which is what perscription drugs achieve with many side effects).
Now, he had said that this medication wasn't a medication in the sense that it KILLS the parasite, he said that it provides them with the coating to prevent ich from attaching itself to them. There is a big difference. Something like that probably wont' harm the other inverts in the tank being as that it does not KILL them. It promotes the buildup of coating over the fish. What should have however been said is that this can also be used as a preventative measure. Garlic is used for the exact same reason (build up tolerance and to promote coating on the fish).
It was also never mentioned that ich cannot sustain itself in high temperatures from around 83-85 degrees...in fact at 85 it dies.
At temperatures of 81+ it cuts their life cycle in half because they are working at a higher metabolic rate.
Again, all alternatives to QTing..
which I used to do with moderate success rates (which are pretty much the same success rates I have with alternatives to QTing)
A lot depends on stress, diet, and how far along you catch the infection.
There is my two cents.
My father is a heart patient. He turned to holistic a long time ago. Holistic meds will only take you so far. Holistic means outside the relm of traditional medicine, not a miracle cure in a bottle. Hyposalinity is the most holistic cure you can get for a nasty parasite like ich. Pepper irritants are doing nothing more than irritating the fishes skin. It is a parasite. You have to remove the host to stop the life cycle.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
When I used Stop Parasites the stuff smelled horrible. It made my tank cloudy, before the five days was over I put carbon in my filter to get it out.
 

tangwhispr

Member
Originally Posted by mujtba
No, thats how I lost my first fish... it does not DROP off on its own.. it will consume the fish. A day or 2 after dosing the medicine, the ICH fell off.. it would not fall on its own till it devoured all fish.

The parasitic stage (trophonts) is the one that results in the appearance of white spots all over the fish. The trophonts burrow under the skin where they feed on body fluids and tissue debris. When the trophonts first infect the fish they are small but grow as they feed and so the white spots are initially small but get larger as they mature. Once mature, they drop off the fish and sink/swim down to the substrate where they encyst and begin to reproduce. In this stage they are called tomonts. After a number of days in which the tomonts divide, the cyst ruptures, releasing the tomites. Tomites may differentiate into theronts, the infective stage, which actively seek a host to reinfect.
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
Pepper irritants are doing nothing more than irritating the fishes skin.
If the above is true then how do you explain the numerous success stories with this med? Maybe it didn't work for you because you didn't complete the treatment.
 

psusocr1

Active Member
like i said my blue hippo had ich all over her.. covering her eyeballs soo bad she was runing into things... stop parasite got rid of ALL OF IT... even from her eyes and everywhere else..none of my corals or iverts died.. and i actually noticed a pod EXPLOSION after the treatment..( i did always have alot of pods though)
i cant explain it, nor will i try to, but on two different occasions it worked for me..( and i only got it again after the first time because of tank change that didnt go very well, any fish would have stressed, im suprised i didnt loose any of them for what they had to go through..)
 

renogaw

Active Member
but thats the point psu.
it did not remove the ich from your system. your fish had to have been constantly getting infected, even if just to a smaller degree where youcouldn't see it. if the ich was cured the first time, it CANNOT come back unless you add anything to the tank.
I just changed my 75 to a 90. i have my kole, a CB, 2 clowns, 3 chromis, 1 mandarin, AND a firefish in my 20 gallon QT while setting it up (and yes, i'm insanely nervous about doing this, but i had to). my fish do not have ich and you cannot tell me that they are not stressed. if stress is the cause of ich, why don't they have it? it is simple: stress does not cause ich if there is no ich in the system. It will make it so they can get ich easier only if it is in there.
 

crimzy

Active Member
This thing's going round and round in circles because there are really two different debates going on here. I don't think that anyone is saying that Stop Parasite is an absolute cure to ich or kills the organism. If people said this, they'd be wrong. However, Stop Parasite does appear to be an effective treatment for a sick fish. I've used the stuff with success, but I'm not suggesting that the parasite is no longer in my tank. The difference is between a cure v. treatment. Can we agree on this at least?
My disagreement is with those who unilaterally dismiss any potential that Stop Parasite has any effect. Such as the "miracle cure" and "this stuff does nothing" argument. This is untrue.
 

nigerbang

Active Member
Agreed... I think that is where the confusion is(at least for me) treatment vs cure.. I would be willing to give it a shot in conjuction with QT, if the situation ever presents itself I would give it a shot.
 

renogaw

Active Member
i agree also, but it seems people are using cure and treatment as synonyms, which is why i think this thread has gone on as long as it has.
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by NigerBang
Agreed... I think that is where the confusion is(at least for me) treatment vs cure.. I would be willing to give it a shot in conjuction with QT, if the situation ever presents itself I would give it a shot.
It's so beautiful when we can come together like this.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Let us NOT call anyone posting here ignorant, or stupid, etc. That is uncalled for.
 
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