Heres how to REMOVE ICH from FISH safely!

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
I want to see what happens to these tanks in time. I notice certain people who have strong oppinions about this are having many other problems with their tanks. There are posts in other forums. All I can say at this point is, "Please let us know if you need help with anything in the future."

Not me... I haven't lost a fish in several years.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by crimzy
Beth, Beth, Beth.... nobody has suggested that you are wrong for doing what you choose with your tank. It's you and some others here who feel compelled to criticize this person's choice for posting a success story. ...
Yet again, Crimzy, you are not accurately portraying what's been said. Beth nor I either one criticized the original poster.
Pointing out facts about Ich's life cycle, pointing out falsehoods posted on Chem Marin's webpage, and trying to explain the dangers of medicating a display tank shouldn't be interpreted as being critical.
Again, you yourself said you don't agree 100% with the original post. Would you consider that being critical? I don't.

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Yet again, Crimzy, you are not accurately portraying what's been said. Beth nor I either one criticized the original poster.
Pointing out facts about Ich's life cycle, pointing out falsehoods posted on Chem Marin's webpage, and trying to explain the dangers of medicating a display tank shouldn't be interpreted as being critical.
Again, you yourself said you don't agree 100% with the original post. Would you consider that being critical? I don't.
Journey, I think you're missing a point here. It really doesn't matter whether or not I agree with every statement made by someone who has had a good experience with Stop Parasite. Nor does it matter whether you believe that there are falsehoods on their web page. All of that is simply a red herring to the original issue... that being that this poster believes he had success with this product and wants to let others know about his experiences. Just for the record, I have attempted the same thing many times.
However, please don't suggest at this point that you, Beth and the others have not been critical. The entire opposition to the original poster has been critical, including the head banging

, the "Beth I feel so sorry for you having to shoot down this idea again" posts, the "this is the lazy way to care for your fish", and the "this med cannot work because ich is an invert" posts. You don't call these critical?
You have actually gone to the trouble of going to the Chem Marin web page to scrutinize and find questionable language in the content. The reality is that your amateur scientific theory does not invalidate the experience that me and several of the other posters have had with Stop Parasite. Neither does your criticism of the language on the web page.
So, while you may want to challenge the original poster to debate the science of an "ich life cycle" with you, he probably cannot do so effectively because he is not an expert in the field. It really doesn't matter, though in the context of his experience.

 

[psusocr1]

i love stop parasite! that stuff is awesome when used with good husbandry and other various methods...Its not only removed ich from my fish on two occasions but on one particular i thought my blue hippo would certainly die within 12 hours thats how bad she looked.. as is aid witht his product and other husbandries i practiced not only did she go from laying on the bottom of my tank but made an absolutly full recovery and she was 7-8 inches when i had gotten rid of my tank( afte ri used it the second time it never came back).. never lost ANYTHING in my tank when using it, its safe with sharks and rays, and doesnt kill inverts or corals.. Maybe it isnt for everyone which is fine, ive reccomended it to deveral friends around my area and it also worked for them... i say the proof is in the pudding, you just cant be afraid to give it a taste..

 

[jamparty]

Originally Posted by NigerBang
Okay....Since you all believe there is invert safe ICH medicine....Why dont you research what ICH is...Okay I will spoil the suprise...its an......INVERT...
I'm going to throw my two cents in because I do believe you all are letting this get out of hand. Let me put things another way. My father was a traditional medical physician for 24 years. He retired, then couldn't stand being retired, so went back into the medical field. HOWEVER, rather than going back to perscription drugs and surgery, he went to alternative medicine otherwise known as Holistic or Homeopathic remedy. He has experienced in 6 years more success rates with a much broader spectrum of patients ranging from Cancer, HIV, MS, Park., and Hepatitus than he ever experienecd with treatment of perscription drugs or surgery. He even cured a 4 year old autistic child who is now associating with his parents on a normal 4 year old level.
My point is this. He underwent a lot of scrutiny in the medical field both from collegues and from friends and family. But he stuck with it, and you know what...it turns out it's a million times better.
Understandabley, this may not make a lick of difference to anyone who is concrete in their beliefs, but to the open minded it provided them with a safe natural method of CURING not TREATING (which is what perscription drugs achieve with many side effects).
Now, he had said that this medication wasn't a medication in the sense that it KILLS the parasite, he said that it provides them with the coating to prevent ich from attaching itself to them. There is a big difference. Something like that probably wont' harm the other inverts in the tank being as that it does not KILL them. It promotes the buildup of coating over the fish. What should have however been said is that this can also be used as a preventative measure. Garlic is used for the exact same reason (build up tolerance and to promote coating on the fish).
It was also never mentioned that ich cannot sustain itself in high temperatures from around 83-85 degrees...in fact at 85 it dies.
At temperatures of 81+ it cuts their life cycle in half because they are working at a higher metabolic rate.
Again, all alternatives to QTing..
which I used to do with moderate success rates (which are pretty much the same success rates I have with alternatives to QTing)
A lot depends on stress, diet, and how far along you catch the infection.
There is my two cents.

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by JamParty
It was also never mentioned that ich cannot sustain itself in high temperatures from around 83-85 degrees...in fact at 85 it dies.
At temperatures of 81+ it cuts their life cycle in half because they are working at a higher metabolic rate.

you're thinking freshwater ich.

 

[jamparty]

Originally Posted by renogaw
you're thinking freshwater ich.
i'm not.
do some research on it.
although I do know exactly what articles you're probably making reference to.
furthermore, I have used this as treatment to ich with success.
So I'm afraid I cannot agree with you.

 

[renogaw]

not even worth it anymore

 

[jamparty]

Originally Posted by renogaw
not even worth it anymore

whatev.
you tried to completely negate my entire post with your simple one liner.
I could care less what you feel now.

 

[psusocr1]

renogaw not even worth it anymore
well said i made my peace and bounced

 

[beth]

My biggest problem with the no-effort bottled method is that it just supplants good, sound husbandry practices that hobbyists should adapt, such as quarantining new fish and maintaining as much as a chemical-free tank environment as possible.
At this point, I think anyone reading this topic will understand the issues involved, both sides, and be able to make an informed decision. If there was no other voice, then some reading this, especially with the neon sign type of heading, would blindly jump into this easy fix, which could result in disaster. And the fact is, that this method is not generally accepted (by experts), so there should and will be controversy when anyone tries to advocate for it.
Keeping hobbyist informed is why I do post the best of these threads in the FAQ.

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by JamParty
whatev.
you tried to completely negate my entire post with your simple one liner.
I could care less what you feel now.

i edited my post cause i'm tired of this thread and don't want to continue it.
what i had said is if you know what articles and research i'm talking about, why haven't people disputed it and why aren't you published with your own research disputing it?

 

[jamparty]

Originally Posted by renogaw
i edited my post cause i'm tired of this thread and don't want to continue it.
what i had said is if you know what articles and research i'm talking about, why haven't people disputed it and why aren't you published with your own research disputing it?

give me the money to publish my research and I'll publish it.
Just to clarify, my original post was not to spur more argumentation..
It was to simply make the point that there will always be people who try different things from the MASSES who undergo SCRUTINY fromt he rest of the populus. Traditional medicine is practiced in this country and this country ALONE as the predominant form of treatment. However, in any other country around the world will you see a health insurance provider business, diet, perscription drug, or medical practice based around surgery and perscribing those drugs as popular and as WEALTHY than the United States. Japan for example still treats with all natural remedies as opposed to perscription drugs. I'm not talking about third world countries here.
There is no point in arguing this because at the end of the day, you will believe one thing and others will believe something else.
Likewise, some people respond well to perscription drugs (however they often find themselves calling up for more refills) and others who go the natural way find themselves cured. In this country the typical practice is with surgery/per.drugs. In nearly every other country people go the natural method FIRST. Which way is the right way?
Are you willing to take on the majority of the world if you for example go to Japan and want to set up a typical traditional medical practice there?
As successfull Qting might be, I think people should promote trying different measures of preventative and treatment. Otherwise, NO PROGRESS IS EVER MADE. Just try to keep a broader wider mind on things.
I was responding in the first response more to the people who were quite literally jumping down the backs of those who dared to do something else.

 

[renogaw]

haha, if it was worth publishing it would have been.
here's some published research:
Raising the water temperature
Temperature manipulation or raising the temperature to 86F is a treatment that has been used with some success against freshwater ick Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. However, the optimal temperature for the reproduction of Cryptocaryon irritans is 86F so raising the temperature to this level will not kill this parasite (Noga, 2000).
Raising the water temperature to a lesser degree has also been suggested as a means of speeding up the life cycle of Cryptocaryon irritans. While it is true that the life cycle of this parasite is temperature dependant, speeding up the life cycle may not be helpful to the fish. Raising the temperature can change the blood pH causing further stress to fish already weakened by disease (Bartelme, 2000a. McDonald & Milligan, 1992). If the water temperature was not too low to begin with, then it may be better not to adjust this parameter. If the temperature is adjusted, any change should be small and take place slowly.
Oh, and there's this:
Tank Temperature Elevation
(For Treating Empty Fish-Only Tank or Reef System with Inverts/Corals Removed!)
For a main aquarium Fish-Only tank with the fish removed, or a reef system with the inverts and corals removed as well, speed up the completion of the parasites life cycle by raising the main aquarium temperature to 85° F to 90° F. Oodinium cysts and dinospores, or Cryptocaryon cysts and tomites, can be eliminated from an aquarium in two weeks, three for sure, if the fish hosts are removed and the tank temperature is elevated. As long as the fish don't carry the parasite back into the aquarium with them when they are returned after treatment in the QT, the infestation can be cured. (Reference: The Marine Aquarium Handbook - Beginner to Breeder, by Martin A. Moe, Jr.)

 

[jamparty]

Originally Posted by JamParty
give me the money to publish my research and I'll publish it.
Just to clarify, my original post was not to spur more argumentation..
It was to simply make the point that there will always be people who try different things from the MASSES who undergo SCRUTINY fromt he rest of the populus. Traditional medicine is practiced in this country and this country ALONE as the predominant form of treatment. However, in any other country around the world will you see a health insurance provider business, diet, perscription drug, or medical practice based around surgery and perscribing those drugs as popular and as WEALTHY than the United States. Japan for example still treats with all natural remedies as opposed to perscription drugs. I'm not talking about third world countries here.
There is no point in arguing this because at the end of the day, you will believe one thing and others will believe something else.
Likewise, some people respond well to perscription drugs (however they often find themselves calling up for more refills) and others who go the natural way find themselves cured. In this country the typical practice is with surgery/per.drugs. In nearly every other country people go the natural method FIRST. Which way is the right way?
Are you willing to take on the majority of the world if you for example go to Japan and want to set up a typical traditional medical practice there?
As successfull Qting might be, I think people should promote trying different measures of preventative and treatment. Otherwise, NO PROGRESS IS EVER MADE. Just try to keep a broader wider mind on things.
I was responding in the first response more to the people who were quite literally jumping down the backs of those who dared to do something else.
hi

 

[mujtba]

Originally Posted by psusocr1
i love stop parasite! that stuff is awesome when used with good husbandry and other various methods...Its not only removed ich from my fish on two occasions but on one particular i thought my blue hippo would certainly die within 12 hours thats how bad she looked.. as is aid witht his product and other husbandries i practiced not only did she go from laying on the bottom of my tank but made an absolutly full recovery and she was 7-8 inches when i had gotten rid of my tank( afte ri used it the second time it never came back).. never lost ANYTHING in my tank when using it, its safe with sharks and rays, and doesnt kill inverts or corals.. Maybe it isnt for everyone which is fine, ive reccomended it to deveral friends around my area and it also worked for them... i say the proof is in the pudding, you just cant be afraid to give it a taste..

PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING! well said!

 

[fish4ever]

The ARROGANCE of some people in here make me laugh! Let's just cut down a fellow hobbyist cause he tried something "different" (can I say that word?...different?) People need to get over themselves and move on. All I can say is do what WORKS FOR YOU!!

 

[robn]

fish4ever,
I think you're confusing "arrogance" with "opinion"....look, the original poster came on here in what I believe was a spirit of helpfulness and related their experience with a particular product. That's their right....I'm glad he posted it. However, my personal experience with this same product was different, and I posted it.....Several others have expressed their skepticism about this product.....that's their right as well. I honestly don't see where the "arrogance" is.....to me, this is an informative thread that is going along just like it should.....can you explain your problem with it please?

 

[fish4ever]

Let me first start off by defining Arrogance: overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors: offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.
The original poster was simply stating what worked for him...understood..., but it wasn't long before others were mocking and discrediting him for his actions of trying to cure his fish using a medication instead of what others believe should have been done instead. Others saying that it can't work cause ich is an invert and it would kill off all of his inverts as well. Simply they were saying the only way to successfully rid an aquarium of the parasite is to quarintine all the fish and let the DT stand for about 6 weeks. While treating the sick fish with hypo.
You may be posting your opinions in specific that the med. didn't work for you, but that doesn't necessarily mean it didn't work for him. I am not trying to tell people off of their rights to state their own opinions, but I am sick of people and their dissmay about a product that they have never tried. Not saying that none of you have tried it, but for those who haven't and are stating it CAN NOT work. The arrogance lies in those who have been in the hobby for a long time, and yet have never once tried it to see if it actually does work. And kudos to those who have never needed to med or take care of a sick fish before, but in this hobby as well with any other living creature...it will eventually get sick or ill. It is inevitable.

 

[robn]

fish4ever,
Well, I never said it didn't work for him.....in a previous post, I speculated as to why his solution may have worked.......I just know it didn't work for me, unfortunately.....there have been several inaccuracies in this thread, one of which being that ich is an invert which it is not.....another (this one in the original posters first post) states that this product will enhance the slime coat of fish (which is a good thing) and then it says "which will remove all parasites" which is completely false. It will help keep parasites off the fish but it will not remove the ich that is on the fish. Sorry but it just doesn't. You find me ONE SINGLE scientifically documented case of this....I don't mean any of us here, I mean scientifically documented case.
Now, when some of us read that, we feel that it's a RESPONSIBILITY to comment on it and point it out. Apparently to you, that is being arrogant. Isn't it the purpose of these threads to spread accurate information and to debunk myths? But yet, when we call these statements into question, we are called arrogant. Makes no sense....
I don't know if this product cured his ich problem or not....I am not going to say ABSOLUTELY NOT.....I've seen too many exceptions to "rules" in this hobby to say that. I think he was genuine in his motives for posting this......
Disagreeing is not arrogance.....I hope we can agree on that.