House passed the Health Bill

uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3251093
communism and socialism are two separate forms of government...similar...but different...just like facism is similar to socialism in many aspects.
I have often said that the political spectrum is a circle, not a line. The difference between the extremes of left and right is rhetorical, not practical.
 
uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3251079
The Nazis were experts at redefining words.
The skill is not relegated to the Nazis.
Politicians in general are experts at redefining words and twisting phrases.
The ability to do so is a core job requirement.
The term they're both looking for is "Dictatorship" because that's what each party wants. To use it would hit too close to home, however...
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
The other point I"ve seen made that I really don't understand is the correlation between strong patriotism and big government... There is no connection.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3251080
1920 Nazi Political platform (Just the socialist stuff)
13. We demand the nationalization of all enterprises (already) converted into corporations (trusts).
14. We demand profit-sharing in large enterprises.
15. We demand the large-scale development of old-age pension schemes.
16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle class; the immediate communalization of the large department stores, which are to be leased at low rates to small tradesmen. We demand the most careful consideration for the owners of small businesses in orders placed by national, state, or community authorities.
17. We demand land reform in accordance with our national needs and a law for expropriation without compensation of land for public purposes. Abolition of ground rent and prevention of all speculation in land.
18. We demand ruthless battle against those who harm the common good by their activities. Persons committing base crimes against the People, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished by death without regard of religion or race.
21. The State must raise the level of national health by means of mother-and-child care, the banning of juvenile labor, achievement of physical fitness through legislation for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and maximum support for all organizations providing physical training for young people.
23. We demand laws to fight against deliberate political lies and their dissemination by the press.
Sounds pretty socialist to me...
That was the 1920 platform, which bore little resemblance to Hitler's agenda.
 
uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3251284
The other point I"ve seen made that I really don't understand is the correlation between strong patriotism and big government... There is no connection.
Well, perhaps you could check out the "If you're not for us, you're against us" sentiment, which equivocation was not drawn by the media, it was stated by the then occupant of the White House.
Trying to understand any sort of correlation is counterproductive. The point of the statement was, in fact, quite the opposite of getting one to think about it. The point was to whitewash a non-sequitur, namely: If you don't believe in everything I do, you're not a patriot.
Sort of equivalent to the Yellow Cake argument.
Really? Is this politics, pastry, or religion?
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3251308
Well, perhaps you could check out the "If you're not for us, you're against us" sentiment, which equivocation was not drawn by the media, it was stated by the then occupant of the White House.
Trying to understand any sort of correlation is counterproductive. The point of the statement was, in fact, quite the opposite of getting one to think about it. The point was to whitewash a non-sequitur, namely: If you don't believe in everything I do, you're not a patriot.
Sort of equivalent to the Yellow Cake argument.
Really? Is this politics, pastry, or religion?
Ok I don't think that statement is particularly aplicable. (nor accurate) Calling troops rapists, and murders and openly calling for our defeat, needs to be called what it is...
The line in the stand statement you're refering to was a foreign policy statement, had nothing to do with democrats and republicans...
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Back to "reform". I've seen the claims of newly covered patients (12-30 million people). The bill provides new IRS agents to keep us in line and make sure we are buying some form of mandatory coverage.
BUT
I have not seen a single provision of the new law providing funding for training new doctors or nurses? It takes 7-9 years to train a physician.
Makes me wonder. More gov't but no providers.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/3251369
Back to "reform". I've seen the claims of newly covered patients (12-30 million people). The bill provides new IRS agents to keep us in line and make sure we are buying some form of mandatory coverage.
BUT
I have not seen a single provision of the new law providing funding for training new doctors or nurses? It takes 7-9 years to train a physician.
Makes me wonder. More gov't but no providers.
Would this addition of the Government pretty much taking over the National Student Loan program (i.e. Pell grants) fit this category? I would agree that if they're going to indirectly spend money to provide medical treatment to patients, they should do some sort of loan forgiveness to anyone who seeks a medical profession. You could have college graduates who are seeking medical degrees sign a "Contract With The American People". The Federal Government will cover the entire cost of your medical school and training. In return, you have to practice at a set salary at a county-run or community-based facility for 5 years upon completion of obtaining your medical degree. Once you perform this "internship" you are released of all debt and can practice medicine as you so choose. If at any time during your medical training or internship you fail or drop out, you will be responsible for all costs incurred for whatever schooling you've completed.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/3251369
Back to "reform". I've seen the claims of newly covered patients (12-30 million people). The bill provides new IRS agents to keep us in line and make sure we are buying some form of mandatory coverage.
BUT
I have not seen a single provision of the new law providing funding for training new doctors or nurses? It takes 7-9 years to train a physician.
Makes me wonder. More gov't but no providers.
Look closer. Title V, particularly subtitle C, sections 5202-5701, "Increasing the supply of the healthcare workforce"=more providers. The discussion might be whether this is sufficient, or too much (depends on your outlook), but it is in there.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3251308
Well, perhaps you could check out the "If you're not for us, you're against us" sentiment, which equivocation was not drawn by the media, it was stated by the then occupant of the White House.
Trying to understand any sort of correlation is counterproductive. The point of the statement was, in fact, quite the opposite of getting one to think about it. The point was to whitewash a non-sequitur, namely: If you don't believe in everything I do, you're not a patriot.
Sort of equivalent to the Yellow Cake argument.
Really? Is this politics, pastry, or religion?
Who do you think W was speaking to when he saud that? It wasn't the people of the United States.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/3251369
Back to "reform". I've seen the claims of newly covered patients (12-30 million people). The bill provides new IRS agents to keep us in line and make sure we are buying some form of mandatory coverage.
BUT
I have not seen a single provision of the new law providing funding for training new doctors or nurses? It takes 7-9 years to train a physician.
Makes me wonder. More gov't but no providers.
Got news for ya, it also didn't include the cost of the expansion of the IRS. Only a fool would believe this bill isn't going to be very expensive. There are already big businesses saying it's going to cost them 100's of millions, WHat do you think the real cost to the federal government will be.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3251380
Look closer. Title V, particularly subtitle C, sections 5202-5701, "Increasing the supply of the healthcare workforce"=more providers. The discussion might be whether this is sufficient, or too much (depends on your outlook), but it is in there.
One big problem is the expansion of medicaid. You already have docs who wont take medicare and medicaid patients. They are almost going to have to look at increasing reimbursements to keep enough docs in the system to take on the increased patient load.
I don't believe the "doc" fix in it's current form was even included in the cost estimates. I mean we had to have it before so it wouldn't be fair to say it's a cost resulting from this bill but this bill very well may cause that cost to increase a whole lot.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3251007
Where are the Premiers of Canada going to go for their heart operations now?
Probably to the same place that Sarah Palin's family went to for free health care - Canada.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3251457
Probably to the same place that Sarah Palin's family went to for free health care - Canada.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/sto...#ixzz0eOBQPidI
Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams will undergo heart surgery later this week in the United States.
Deputy premier Kathy Dunderdale confirmed the treatment at a news conference Tuesday, but would not reveal the location of the operation or how it would be paid for.
"He has gone to a renowned expert in the procedure that he needs to have done," said Ms. Dunderdale, who will become acting premier while Mr. Williams is away for three to 12 weeks.
"In consultation with his own doctors, he's decided to go that route."
Mr. Williams' decision to leave Canada for the surgery has raised eyebrows over his apparent shunning of Canada's health-care system.
Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/sto...#ixzz0jIuEmBrU
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Are you guys hearing what these companies are estimating some of the costs to them are going to be because of this, AT&T says 1 Billion
 
uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3251454
You already have docs who wont take medicare and medicaid patients.
There are also docs who won't accept various existing private insurance plans (largely HMO's) for much the same reason.
Not sure I understand your point?
 
uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3251323
Ok I don't think that statement is particularly aplicable. (nor accurate) Calling troops rapists, and murders and openly calling for our defeat, needs to be called what it is...
Fair enough. That wasn't clear to me from your original statement.
The line in the stand statement you're refering to was a foreign policy statement, had nothing to do with democrats and republicans...
I beg to differ there. It was a political statement. It not only had everything to do with Democrats and Republicans, we also issued the rest of the world a thinly veiled threat, all the while claiming what we were doing, both domestically and overseas, was in the name of Democracy.
I'd call that policy DINO © - Democratic In Name Only.
 
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