House passed the Health Bill

darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by scottnlisa
http:///forum/post/3250360
Sorry but it did. the greatest day in history was the day Mr. Obama took office.
You need some serious help......If that was the greatest day in our history....Your education is very lacking. Pretty sad that you place the election of one single man above the following, Desegergation/equal rights movement, The original tea party, the end of the revolutionary war, the founding of this country, the liberation of Europe twice, The reaction and aid given after 9/11.....................just to name a few.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by Slice
http:///forum/post/3250473
Sorry for not having an avatar yet, I just registered a few minutes ago (been lurking a few days). I had no idea that my first post would be political, but you folks hit a few hot buttons...
Someone once said:
"If you cannot write your idea on the back of a matchbook cover, you do not have a clear idea".
We were told this bill is to do a few basic things, among these are 1) Reduce cost 2) Eliminate refusal to cover pre-existing conditions 3) Allow everyone access to health care insurance.
We were told "Health Care costs will double in the next 6 years", or something close to that. No one ever said why cost will double. No one that I have heard has addressed the root causes for increased costs. Is it government intervention? FDA regulation? Nuisance lawsuits? Interstate regulations, prohibiting insurance firms to compete across state lines? All we were told is that insurance companies are the villain (gotta have a villain, right?), even though insurance companies only make 2.5-3.5% profit (pretty low as corporations go).
Nothing in the bill addresses the root causes (and yes, I have mostly read the various flavors of the bills) because the bill in not about lowering cost, it is about government control.
Eliminating the practice of refusing coverage of pre-existing conditions can be written as a law almost as simply as writing this post, but it is not about that, it is about government control.
All other "objectives" of the bill could have been achieved as simply, if the bill was about "reform" instead of government control.
In short, 2700+ pages is not required to "reform" health care, but it IS required to mire down our system in government control. And of course, we are now told that this is just the beginning....
One more quote:
“The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the presidency. It will be easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails us. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president.”
OK, enough of that, time for me to read more on setting up this 47g FOWLR tank.....
Thanks for your time,
Slice
Finally, my replacement has shown up.................
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3250496
You need some serious help......If that was the greatest day in our history....Your education is very lacking. Pretty sad that you place the election of one single man above the following, Desegergation/equal rights movement, The original tea party, the end of the revolutionary war, the founding of this country, the liberation of Europe twice, The reaction and aid given after 9/11.....................just to name a few.
Don't forget the liberation of Iraq...
 
icebreaker

icebreaker

Member
Have to love the new quote by Nancy Pelosi's “This is a great day, this bill passing will be as big as the days we passed social security and subsidized welfare”. Last time I checked both of these items are BROKE!!!!
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3250452
There is another term for this... when the economy is privately held but controlled by government...
Fascism.
Which is a logical first step if you are going to try to move to socialism step by step.
As a teenager Obama's mentor "Uncle Frank" aka Frank Marhsal Davis was a Communist, FBI's words, not mine.
In Obama's book he wrote of seeking out "Marxist" professors while in college, his words not mine.
20 years in Jaramiah Wright's church. Listen to some of the ideals spewed by that guy
Anita Dunn, Obama's communications director openly states Chairman Mao was one of her favorite political philosophers, her words not mine.
Vann Jones, Nominated to be green jobs czar. Someone the Obama people "had been watching for a long time" was a communist, again his words not mine. Not only did he call himself a communist he was a member of the group STORM who held up Mao as their ideal leader.
Why would anyone think Obama is a socialist is beyond me
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3250509
Left that one out as some have issue with that. The one's I listed I dare someone to argue they were bad and not a great moment for this country.
(just a pot stirrer)
but if it is seen to its completion, I firmly believe it will be...
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3250517
(just a pot stirrer)
but if it is seen to its completion, I firmly believe it will be...
Don't count on it. I read an article the other day the guy who is in the running to be the next President/Leader is some Shiite, and his opposition, some Kurd, are already screaming foul about the election results. The Kurd leader wants a recount, but they're being told that it would be impossible to do. Everyone involved is saying the tension is so high, it's inevitable that some kind of 'war' will occur no matter which one is elected. Welcome to trying to push Democracy on a country that was never really enthused with the idea to begin with...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3250524
Don't count on it. I read an article the other day the guy who is in the running to be the next President/Leader is some toad named Gore, and his opposition, some Redneck named Bush, are already screaming foul about the election results. The leader wants a recount, but they're being told that it would be impossible to do. Everyone involved is saying the tension is so high, it's inevitable that some kind of 'war' will occur no matter which one is elected. Welcome to trying to push Democracy on a country that was never really enthused with the idea to begin with...

Fixed that for ya
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3250452
There is another term for this... when the economy is privately held but controlled by government...
Fascism.
Interesting that the far right accuses the liberals of fascism, which is generally considered to be a far right political/economic theory that uses waged war to advance its nation's economic causes (Iraq, anyone?). You guys seem to get off by criticizing the new health care law by cutting and pasting quotations from the far right in 1935 (social security), 1965 (medicare) and even 1965 (voting rights) that predicted the end of America, of freedom, of life as we know it, and possibly the dissolution of the galaxy. It hasn't happened, and won't. My prediction is that the legal challenges will be thrown out, the law will go into effect and over the next decate will be tuned, either fine or gross, and in a few years we will not be able to understand how our country ever did without universal health care, just as it is difficult to envision our country without social security or health care for senior citizens (I know that many of you can envision that, but I'm speaking to those who have read and absorbed whatever religious or moral philosopher they adhere to).
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3250538
Interesting that the far right accuses the liberals of fascism, which is generally considered to be a far right political/economic theory that uses waged war to advance its nation's economic causes (Iraq, anyone?).
Let me rephrase your post to accurately reflect what you have stated.
Leftist idealogs who control the education system in the United States, have decided to label this as a far right wing idea simply to damage the argument for conservatism...
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3250538
Interesting that the far right accuses the liberals of fascism, which is generally considered to be a far right political/economic theory that uses waged war to advance its nation's economic causes (Iraq, anyone?). You guys seem to get off by criticizing the new health care law by cutting and pasting quotations from the far right in 1935 (social security), 1965 (medicare) and even 1965 (voting rights) that predicted the end of America, of freedom, of life as we know it, and possibly the dissolution of the galaxy. It hasn't happened, and won't. My prediction is that the legal challenges will be thrown out, the law will go into effect and over the next decate will be tuned, either fine or gross, and in a few years we will not be able to understand how our country ever did without universal health care, just as it is difficult to envision our country without social security or health care for senior citizens (I know that many of you can envision that, but I'm speaking to those who have read and absorbed whatever religious or moral philosopher they adhere to).
But wait, neither of the programs you speak of are paid for. Neither run budget nuetral. See this is the problem. You can't grasp the concept of actually paying for something or possibly paying for something. Our defecits have ballooned and are only going to get bigger. Do you even understand the reprecussions of the surmounting debt? Do you understand our debt is THE REASON we have to be nice with so many countriees? DO YOU UNDERSTAND OUR DEBT IS THE REASON OUR GOVERNMENT HAVE ALLOWED SO MANY JOBS TO BE SHIPPED OVERSEAS. Do you understand our debt is the reason china, Japan, and every other major nation we trade with can tax our imports but we won't tax their imports?
You just don't friggin get it.
We just spent 900 billion to save 100 billion....so essentially we just added 800 billion to our debt. This money is NOT paid for. It is not accounted for.
When will this stupid country wake up.
Sure, wars create debt, but they end and can be paid off. These social programs do not end, and only grow larger as our population increases.
You want heathcare passed....fine, but pay for it. a 25% tax hike across the board on EVERYONE.....That is what it will require. How do you think that will affect this economy.
See that is the problem with most people today. They don't understand everything is tied together. Sure, you get heathcare,. sure it is government ran. But this bill ALSO affects our relationships with other countries. Why are we involved in so much around the world? Why do we have so many foreign made products? It is because we are OWNED by other countries because people like you want your "free" programs.
So let me ask you...what happens when it is time to pay the piper............
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
I personally don't see how it's legal. The article stated a child as young as 13 doesn't require parental permission for these services this Clinic provides. Where's the money coming from to pay for these services? How can they administer or perform ANY procedure, much less something as intrusive as an abortion, on a child without previous medical history? What if this girl was anemic, or had some blood condition, and she'd bled out during the procedure? Yea, if this would've happened to one of my daughter's, regardless of my position on abortion, I'd have major issues with it.
 
slice

slice

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/3250538
Interesting that the far right accuses the liberals of fascism, which is generally considered to be a far right political/economic theory that uses waged war to advance its nation's economic causes (Iraq, anyone?). You guys seem to get off by criticizing the new health care law by cutting and pasting quotations from the far right in 1935 (social security), 1965 (medicare) and even 1965 (voting rights) that predicted the end of America, of freedom, of life as we know it, and possibly the dissolution of the galaxy. It hasn't happened, and won't. My prediction is that the legal challenges will be thrown out, the law will go into effect and over the next decate will be tuned, either fine or gross, and in a few years we will not be able to understand how our country ever did without universal health care, just as it is difficult to envision our country without social security or health care for senior citizens (I know that many of you can envision that, but I'm speaking to those who have read and absorbed whatever religious or moral philosopher they adhere to).

From Wikipedia:
Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives; values; and systems such as the political system and the economy. Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum, although some scholars claim that fascism has been influenced by both the left and the right.
It DOES go on to say, as you noted, that the system uses war to advance it's causes, but this is also true for Socialism, Monarchy, Democracy, Communism, fertility cults, you name it, and even...dare I say it...marriage.
As for it being difficult to envision life without Social Security and Medicare, that is only because these programs have been imposed on us for so long, NOT because they are any good. Newt Gingrich tried to allow choice on one's retirement, but that did not go far because it threatened government control.
If a new bank opened up in your town and promised for each dollar you deposited, you are guaranteed 65 cents in return, would you go for it? I think not. Now we hear that we may not even get those 65 cents....
IMO, much of the breakdown in this nation's family structure has been a result, either directly or by unintended consequence of government intervention where it is not needed. There was a time when either the wife or husband could reasonable stay home and foster a family. Now both have to work to pay the government taxes that go towards further breakdown.
1965 Voting Rights? As in the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Read your history. This passed with a higher percentage of Republican votes than Democrat votes.
 
slice

slice

Active Member
Lets put this Democrat -vs- Republican thing in human terms. Humans need air, sustenance and shelter to survive.
A politician, to survive, has 3 basic needs:
1) Get Power, get elected
2) Maintain Power, work towards re-election; stay in office
3) Increase Power, get on that committee, then try for chairman, higher office and on and on
Lets say there are 2 politicians. One says "I am the hero of the downtrodden, the underclass, the poor, the have-nots" The other one says "I am the hero of the upwardly mobile, the self dependent, the well to do."
What are the needs of each of these?
The "Hero of the downtrodden", to
1) Get Power has to make sure there ARE downtrodden. Otherwise, who would vote for him?
2) Maintain Power dictates that he makes sure THERE ARE ALWAYS DOWNTRODDEN. Otherwise, who would re-elect him? Politicians who say they are the hero of the poor never seem to help the poor...why? they don't want to work themselves out of a job. What if they did what they promise and some how made all the poor turn wealthy? What would they do? Turn Republican?? Yeah, right.
3) Increase Power means he must make sure MORE people are downtrodden to increase their base and political support
The "hero of the upwardly mobile" to
1) Get Power, need to make sure there ARE the upwardly mobile
2) Maintain Power, needs to insure there are always the upwardly mobile
3) Increase Power, needs to make MORE people upwardly mobile (and THATS the crowd I want to be in!)
This may sound simplistic, but I believe the fundamental human condition trumps idealism as it is now practiced. I believe the basic flaw in modern progressivism and liberalism is that it goes against natural law in favor of some ideal based on the discomfort of being. It is an angry, disappointed way of life.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3250539
Let me rephrase your post to accurately reflect what you have stated.
Leftist idealogs who control the education system in the United States, have decided to label this as a far right wing idea simply to damage the argument for conservatism...
Except that Fascism is extremely anti-left. The socialists and the communists were the first to enjoy fascist hospitality in the camps of Nazi Germany in the 1930's.
 
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