hurricane katrina

[tuningvis]

Friday, September 2nd, 2005
Vacation is Over... an open letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush
Friday, September 2nd, 2005
Dear Mr. Bush:
Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.
Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?
Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!
I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?
And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!
On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.
There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.
No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!
You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.
Yours,
Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
www.MichaelMoore.com

 

[fuax]

News Flash
micheal Moore Is A Moron

 

[moraymike]

Originally Posted by Fuax
News Flash
micheal Moore Is A Moron

 

[sinner's girl]

All family members remaining in New Orleans evacuated to Monroe, LA
Hey that's near me! I was luckly, I wasn't home last week. I talked to my parents from the Carnival Valor in Miami and left all worries behind till yesterday. I grew up in New Orleans, everyone we know left, and are assumed safe. My parents stayed, figured thier house was safer than being stuck on the grid locked roads.
There were lots of school buses shown parked in parking lots flooded out. Why weren't they used to evacuate people?
I asked this also. Not just anyone can drive a bus...*rolls eyes*
ScubaDoo, glad to know someone knew this was preventable and that we can't just blame one person or one group.
Growing up on the west bank, Jefferson Parish, everyone knew this could happen. It was a given that NO would be wiped off the map if a cat 5 ever hit. In reality, it's not as bad as some thought it could be.
Not all can be blamed on Bush. Bush called on Sunday (at least that's when I found out about it) and told the mayor to get the people out. Orleans Parish was unable to have a manditory evac because of limited manpower and no place to put all those people. Bush declare manditory evac, without that, more people would have been stuck there.

 

[scubadoo]

Magooo2 wrote:

Photo taken on 8/30/2005 while the Gulf Coast Region was suffering......and massive loss of life

 

[scubadoo]

Magooo2 wrote:

Mr Magoo...you have taken what I have posted out of context regarding the National Guard. It was in response to another post where someone thought it was unlawful to send in the military to the damaged region. I simply was poinbting out that the military could be sent in as a support mission but they could not enforce law.
Fact, one third of the national Gurad of LA deployed to Iraq would have been units closest to the disaster. Also, I was simply stating how the National Gurad can be sent to fight wars...but the military cannot be sent to uphold law...without a declaration by the President. Simply pointing out how we can take the local National Guard abroad.
As for the guitar sturmming...yes it did happen and is factual per the post above including picture. I was making no statements as to support of the war or non-support...just stating fact as the poster was pointing out it was the responsibility of the National Guard.
Unfortunately, we have been told that the war on terror would not impact the ability to respond to catastrophe here at home. Perhaps it did...perhaps it didn't...time, debate and investigation will tell.....

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Sinner's Girl
Hey that's near me! I was luckly, I wasn't home last week. I talked to my parents from the Carnival Valor in Miami and left all worries behind till yesterday. I grew up in New Orleans, everyone we know left, and are assumed safe. My parents stayed, figured thier house was safer than being stuck on the grid locked roads.
I asked this also. Not just anyone can drive a bus...*rolls eyes*
ScubaDoo, glad to know someone knew this was preventable and that we can't just blame one person or one group.
Growing up on the west bank, Jefferson Parish, everyone knew this could happen. It was a given that NO would be wiped off the map if a cat 5 ever hit. In reality, it's not as bad as some thought it could be.
Not all can be blamed on Bush. Bush called on Sunday (at least that's when I found out about it) and told the mayor to get the people out. Orleans Parish was unable to have a manditory evac because of limited manpower and no place to put all those people. Bush declare manditory evac, without that, more people would have been stuck there.
The School Bises shown was in the New Orleans Public School bus yard and maintenace facility. There was probably about 150 buses in that yard. It is located on Almonaster Avenue and Lousia Street. It is very close to the Desire Housing Project and was a hard hit area. Certainly some folks could have been evacuated in those buses, but I do not beleive there was a plan is place to do so.
Unfortunarly, there was not enough local resourdes in the City to get all those people out....but using those buses could have helped.
I am sure most folks that are licensed to drive the buses evacuated as ordered.
Also, the local officials ordered the evacuation and not the President.
The east bank of Jefferson parish fiared pretty good as compared to New Orleans.
Also, the media keeps stating levies failed which id not true in New Orleans. It was the flood walls on the industrial canal, London Avenue Canal, and 17th St Canal that failed. All earth type levies in the NO/Jeff east bank areas held. The flood walls are two feet thick. The water probably topped the wall and erroded the base causing failure. Also, look at the pictures of the 17th street canal. You can see massive debis covering the bridge area that leads to the lake. I beleive this debis cause a backup (blocked flow) and causes the water to top the walls. You could see pics of a carne removeing the debris yesterday. This would have been the building debris from the Bucktown area that was outside storm protection ie floodwalls/levies.
In St Bernard Parish, water topped a levy on a water way that connected the river to the lake. For many years St Bernard Parish Officials made numerous requests for this waterway to be covered and closed as they knew the potential for disaster. The request was not approved in the CORPS of Engineers budget. The waterway only served as a convenience for boaters. The levy was topped by the surge and sent up to 20 feet of water into this Parish. Not oovered much by the national media.

 

[tuningvis]

Originally Posted by Fuax
News Flash
micheal Moore Is A Moron

it helps when you have facts to back a statement like that.
in fact your post means nothing without something to back it.
i think he is a smart man. although very far from this boards right-wing apperance, still speaks as much truth as our beloved Pres. Bush. it just comes from the oppisite side of the table. which IMO brings a well needed balance of voice to our country wether(sp) you listen to what the guy has to say or not.

 

[cartman101]

i betchya any money that if there was a parade that had the president in it, a guy from louisiana(that got hit by the hurricane) will assassinate pres. bush :thinking:
You never know...

 

[reefraff]

How about a more accurate term to discribe Michael Moore. LIAR. When the NY Times attacks a left wing propagandist's work as inaccurate it has to be bad
I think FEMA made a huge error. They assumed every state had disaster plans in place. That is obviously not the case. The mayor of NO made a huge mistake by not utilizing the school buses to get some of those poor people out. He had more than enough time and who knew better than him about the problems in the city? The governor had time to get the guard in better position and FEMA should have realized thing were in a state of caos a lot sooner.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by tuningvis
it helps when you have facts to back a statement like that.
in fact your post means nothing without something to back it.
i think he is a smart man. although very far from this boards right-wing apperance, still speaks as much truth as our beloved Pres. Bush. it just comes from the oppisite side of the table. which IMO brings a well needed balance of voice to our country wether(sp) you listen to what the guy has to say or not.
Sorry to say bu Michael Moore is simpyl an opputunistic person. he uses his Hollywood public postion to further his agenda. He mentions budget cuts under Bush but fails to mention that a comperhensive flood/hurricane protecction plan was brought forward in 1998 (I beleive Clinton was President then) and shot down. He fails to mention all the plans previous by numerous administrations that were cut and/or never approved.
I did not see him then championing the cause for hurricane protection for Lousiana or New Orleans. I have yet to see him appear on TV supporting aid...and how much has he donated from his massive wealth?
He brings up race but fails to mention that many areas that are predominantly white also were critical of the lag time for the federal response (see transcript from Sunday's Meet the Press Jefferson parish President Aaron Broussard).
He further demonstates his ingnorance by thinking three years of budget cuts would have fixed this problem,. It would take 20-30 years to complete a project to protect New Orleans from a Cat-4-5 hurricane.
Mr Moore...please send your letter to the Democratic leadership of the past..and ask them why they ignored the problem. That would involve objectivity..a concept you do not understand...and you cartainly hace no concept of hurricane/flood protection. Please speak on a subjet you know about...HOT AIR!!!!!!!!
:jumping:

 

[tuningvis]

these posts don't suprise me coming from red staters

 

[tuningvis]

all in all ... the focus should be at home not abroad

 

[moraymike]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
Sorry to say bu Michael Moore is simpyl an opputunistic person. he uses his Hollywood public postion to further his agenda. He mentions budget cuts under Bush but fails to mention that a comperhensive flood/hurricane protecction plan was brought forward in 1998 (I beleive Clinton was President then) and shot down. He fails to mention all the plans previous by numerous administrations that were cut and/or never approved.
I did not see him then championing the cause for hurricane protection for Lousiana or New Orleans. I have yet to see him appear on TV supporting aid...and how much has he donated from his massive wealth?
He brings up race but fails to mention that many areas that are predominantly white also were critical of the lag time for the federal response (see transcript from Sunday's Meet the Press Jefferson parish President Aaron Broussard).
He further demonstates his ingnorance by thinking three years of budget cuts would have fixed this problem,. It would take 20-30 years to complete a project to protect New Orleans from a Cat-4-5 hurricane.
Mr Moore...please send your letter to the Democratic leadership of the past..and ask them why they ignored the problem. That would involve objectivity..a concept you do not understand...and you cartainly hace no concept of hurricane/flood protection. Please speak on a subjet you know about...HOT AIR!!!!!!!!
:jumping:
I agree completely.

He's using this tradegy to bring attention to himself and further his agenda. The focus for now should NOT be political, but in saving lives and helping folks.

 

[fuax]

Tuningvis You are right I should have stated facts but I dont think the boards would let me post the 5 PLUS pages of facts that back up my statement although in hind sight name calling is not the way to go either.
Did he post facts when he did his movies or did he conveintly OMITT what did not fit into his agenda.
Micheal Moore like most of his kind are never their to help with the situation they are their to point fingers and play the blame game so they can be noticed.
Have you seen him lift a finger or heard of him helping in any way as of yet, where was he to champion the people who where hit by this tragedy. One of the great things about this country is the fact that ANYONE can rise up and take charge of a situation if they feel they can get it DONE. What has he done except point out that HUMAN BEINGS can and do make mistakes.
Sorry but Mikemoray and scubadoo I beleive said it better then I did.

 

[ophiura]

Look....
I don't want to see this thread turn too ugly.
Let's not give in to the PROFITEERING. That means the politicos, the race baiters, the negative folks.
We can't be isolationists simply because something MIGHT be around the corner. We can't live and function and work that way in the world. Again, hindsight will kill us. See the distinction there...I don't care if you agreed with the war or not, but don't sit here with some "hey the national guard is there and if they were here....." Please. We have lots of National Guard troops. They weren't mobilized quickly. THAT was a failure...not that some are in Iraq. We can't keep them idle...or just not have them at all...just because something might go wrong at home. They are doing their job in Iraq.
I think we are all emotional. I think it is relatively normal for people to say "man, we can't send people back into that area for it to happen again." That is just my normal response to this sort of thing. Build the walls higher and let them move back to flood again, and again (as has happened in the past???)? I just can't go that way right now. Rebuild the port, rebuild the French Quarter for tourists. But risk it again with a million people living there? I just can't think that now. I am not from there. I don't see it that way. I appreciate those of you who do, and please understand that we mean no ill intent. On the contrary. I don't want to put people back behind another wall that might fail. Its a normal response to want to keep people out of danger.
How many have been thinking "Holy crap, what if a few well placed car bombs......" We spent a lot on protecting dams after 9/11, were they paying any attention to New Orleans?
There will be plenty of blame for EVERYONE in this. But it simply has never happened before. Put yourself in an unfamiliar situation - not even a life threatening one - and see if you make all the right decisions when you reflect on it again. Mistakes happen. People die from it. We need to be HONEST. We need to LEARN. We need to do it PRODUCTIVELY.
We learned a lot of things from 9/11. Tried to make improvements. They didn't work, we've now learned the hard way. Go back, start again.
I am all for a Katrina commission but not a sham one like, IMO, the 9/11 one...not if the mayor or the governor will sit on that board. Because they all need to take some responsibility. We all need to learn to keep it from happening again. Because that next storm is coming...it might come next week.
I am taking this harder, I think, than even 9/11. Then there was an enemy. Then there was a place to reasonably direct anger. Here it is everywhere. It is the feds, the locals...the people volunteering here who are ticked that people aren't being grateful. That's not why you help or volunteer. If you want people kissing your hand for your generosity just stay the hell away. Its just so overwhelming. So lets stick together

 

[darth tang]

The School Bises shown was in the New Orleans Public School bus yard and maintenace facility. There was probably about 150 buses in that yard. It is located on Almonaster Avenue and Lousia Street. It is very close to the Desire Housing Project and was a hard hit area. Certainly some folks could have been evacuated in those buses, but I do not beleive there was a plan is place to do so.
Unfortunarly, there was not enough local resourdes in the City to get all those people out....but using those buses could have helped.
Good plan, now decide which people get on the buses and which get left behind. That would be the problem, how do you decide who gets out and who has to stay? Ultimately I have a hard time believeing all those people didn't know someone outside of the city they could have stayed with or borrowed money from. Maybe I am lucky, but in an event like that I could call anyone of the members in my family and ask for help to get out and they would help no questions asked. They are going house to house and some people are still refusing to be brought in to dry land and receive aid.
Also, the local officials ordered the evacuation and not the President.
The president called the Mayor and the Govenor personally before the storm hit and said to evacuate. The mayor then gave the order.
these posts don't suprise me coming from red staters
You know, I might give Moore some credit if he didn't use tragedy to push home a point that shouldn't even be discussed at the moment. Michael Moore, in his disgruntled bloated manner took the focus off the tragedy and the people and placed it on Iraq. He isn't asking about whyy FEMA isd inept or showing how things could be done better. He isn't giving donations or lending himself to physically help. He is asking about Helicopters in Iraq and placing the entire focus in a hidden way on Iraq and not on the people sufferring. That is my problem with him. He pretends to care when in actuallity he is setting himself up as political "hero" again. Al Sharpton (who I dislike) has far more credibility and actually places the concernc of his constituants first, unlike Moore. Where are the helicopters? That is the stupidest question I have heard. We have enough Copters in this country, the problem is you can only have so many flying in a certain amount of space before it would become dangerous to the pilots.
i think he is a smart man. although very far from this boards right-wing apperance, still speaks as much truth as our beloved Pres. Bush. it just comes from the oppisite side of the table
Ok, I will give you an example of this "truth" he speaks. In Farenheit, he was going on on how Oregon or Washington (I can't rermember at the moment) Only have 8-9 State Troopers to patrol the the highways at any one time with only one of them watching the coast. He is stating this is a short coming in national security and pointing out how Terrorists could land on the coast without State Troopers seeing that. This entire statement is true and he is blaming the current administration for this shortcoming. What he is also doing is playing off the general ignorance of some Americans in this country. Now, can anyone tell me why this statement he makes is asinine and why it isn't the federal governments fault? The answer is in Moore's own statements.
Assholes like this disgust me. I am sick of watching celebrities asking Americans to donate or using this as political rhetoric to enrage Americans. Shut up and Donate first, then speak. Help first, all this politicing now is just slowing things down and pissing people off during the crisis. It directs blame when ultimately, when it is all said and done, there is enough blame for everyone. People could have left, People could have done this or that. The government should have done this. The government could have done that. $0 years ago they should have started upgrading the levy. AQ lot of things could have been done differently, but every situation is that way. We could have got involved with WWII and saved a ton of lives sooner. But we didn't, learn and move on......rebuild, survive, and grow smarter and stronger.

 

[ophiura]

I'll also add that I've heard stories of people stealing buses and driving people out. I think if I were in that situation I could get behind the wheel of a bus and drive it...or sure try. Whether the transmission would be in good shape at the end, uh, is another story.
I think a actual emergency plan could have been in place so that city bus drivers or those authorized could have been called in to evacuate people with their own families in the front seats. If they had a PLAN. They could have had the equivalent of fall out shelters throughout the city. Food and water stashed away, known locations...maybe even large scale drills. Plans and boats to get people out. They could have driven at least as many as they could out as they arrived at the Superdome.
There didn't appear to be a PLAN, and that again is something that needs to be evaluated. I hope every mayor of every major city right now is going through a scenario plan....we have to get something good out of this.

 

[darth tang]

You know, I was just looking back at the news stories as this developed. Immediately after the storm all the stories were similar, New orleans and other areas hit, But citizens hopeful and optomistic. There were even people in the French Quarter planing to have everything cleaned up and ready to party this past weekend. If the Levies hadn't broken, I personally don't believe this would even be a major issue. I know I wasn't to overly concerned till my mom called me and told me New Orleans just got flooded.
It is a sad thing when it takes major tragedy to suddennly make an issue a concern for the nation. I never heard anyone screaming about upgrading the levies. If it had this kind of potential to cause this much destruction, I would have though the local Govt. would have been screaming really loud.

 

[ophiura]

Darth - perhaps you overlooked rapper Kanye West during the telethon, why, he's calling his business manager right now (please note he also claimed he was "robbed" when he didn't win any American Music Awards)! He's looking into it. And since they are his people, I am sure he is going to take in a few families, just as many across this nation are doing - white or black or hispanic or whatever, rich or poor. Yeah, I'm sure.
"I've even been shopping before even giving a donation, so now I'm calling my business manager right now to see what is the biggest amount I can give, and just to imagine if I was down there, and those are my people down there"
Now Macy Gray actually flew out here to Houston and volunteered without much fanfare.
On another note - there was definitely interest in upgrading the levees, but it is a balancing act. Probably would have cost billions, and the Army Corp of Engineers I believe have said it would take 20 to 25 years. Not soon enough for this one, even if they started.