if i got anyone upset over my feelins i am sorry

scotts

Active Member
HT (or should we call you deep throat?)
First of all thank you for your passion, your candor and most importantly your time. Could you explain how a story gets on the air. I know there is not one set pattern, but let's say there is a small, but news worthy event in Italy. Some one has to tell someone who tells somene then the story gets on the air. I know there are the news services, AP for example. How do they get paid? A flat fee from CNN or do you pay them by story?
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around how do we know the tree fell?
Scott
 

wrassecal

Active Member
Sammy - another good point.
Scotts' "deep throat" good one. I can hear Fox news now. "It appears that a small group of saltwater fish tank enthusiasts have planted an enformer in the CNN news organization. Tom Ridge, in an earlier press conference announced that as soon as he can figure out how to bring the twentysomething organizations into the homeland defense team, they will form a strategy and action plan in order to remove the informer.":D
 

ekclark

Member
Zounds!!!
I started the Saddam post, but I never imagined it would lead to all this...I try to keep informed, read the Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, and The New Republic...but the best piece on the Iraq issue was what I heard on NPR's This American Life. It gave all sides of the story and actually changed how I feel about the pending war. Look up local listings because many stations play it on Sunday.
I guess from now on I'll limit what I post to "why is my calc so high?" ;)
 

snowbear

Member
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
WOW! My puny little brain doesn't have much to contribute to this discussion. I've been watching it the last couple of days and am impressed with how "un-flamitory" it's been, even though there have been a couple of smokin' embers for topics!
As to CNN - When something big happens, I agree they need to repeat the broadcast periodically to get the news to those who missed it the first 70 times. However - I was dissappointed during and after the 9-11 incident. The broadcast seemed to be continuous. Was there no other news in the country or the world during those few days? Maybe not, since everyone was glued to CNN :D I realize that was the most important thing happening to this country at the time, but couldn't repeat broadcasts have been aired periodically through the day and if there was a new development, THEN interrupt whatever other news was being reported?
Local news - the source for local stuff, but don't count on accuracy! In my job I am frequently involved in some way with the event being reported. On the air or in the rag, there are USUALLY inaccuracies! Sometimes it was misinformation that was given to the reporter that s/he COULD have corrected if s/he had investigated beyond the original source. Most often these are minor discrepancies, but not always.
HT - keep up the good work!
Mods - thanks for letting this thread stay!
 

hairtrigger

Active Member
Hahahaha, geez almighty, I didn't quite get the "deep throat" comment at first. I was quite taken aback 'till I realized what he meant. :D Sharp thinking scott. And thanks for the encouraging words. I'm just having a good time talking back and forth about what people think about the media, and vice versa. I'm going on two hours of sleep tonight, so my rebuttles, if you will, may not be as up to speed. I am falling asleep as I type this. It would be so easy to not worry about the news right now. So keep responding so I have something to do in my down time to stay awake. Help me help you. :D
Wrasse, you throw some real brain teasers out there, very cool. Now, I will play devil's advocate and argue the American media doesn't spread propaganda, intentionally anyway. I think the government does though, so I cant argue for them.
Now, we don't promote any specific ideas in our stories. We might discuss them, or tell about them, but we never say "this is good, you should follow it." That would go against journalism. Journalism is unbiased story-telling. We don't ever say "We think Saddam is bad." We say "Saddam is the self-proclaimed president of Iraq, this is what he has done since being in power." Now, if the viewer thinks what he does is bad, that's their own opinion. Some people might think killing millions isn't bad. That's also their opinion. We just tell the story.
You will never see the media support or advocate a certain political party, or way of government. Now, on the "talk news shows" you might. But, they are allowed to offer their personal views. That is why we report scandals on both sides of the line. We might not report every rumored scandal because we don't have the facts to back it up. But, we will if we get that information.
Now, about the global events, I don't think we are skewing that stuff so people see it through our eyes. We are showing it how it is over there. If folks think things are scary over there, it's because they are. Terror is a daily way of life over there. The reason we don't show Europe in a bad light, is because Europe generally refrains from the attrocities the mid-east lives everyday. But, things are sketchy over there.
I don't really think we should be jumping right into war. But, I do feel that if Saddam doesnt disarm, we need to force him. He is too unstable to have the kind of weapons he has. I believe he would use them on us if he felt threatened enough. He might not even use them on us, he might use them to try and take over the rest of the mid-east like he wants to. And if he used that crap there, it would pollute that section of the globe for ages. He is too volitile to be running a country with chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction.
You say your son is going overthere. I hope he does well. If he is a Marine, you don't have to worry. Those guys are harda$$es. My father was in Marine-Recon (Covert, and Special Forces) in Vietnam. Entire platoons of Iraqi soldiers have surrendered to a single unit of Marines, that's how scared and intimidated they are of them. Not to mention, they want to escape Saddam.
But, thanks, if I go, I do hope God comes with me. But, you can be sure, I want God covering me from above.... but I want those Marines covering everything else. :cool:
Oh yeah, one more thing. I actually agree with littlefishys. I think propaganda works best on the uneducated and uninformed. It is those people who are impressionable. Educated, informed people have a tendancy to know how the world works. They also form their own opinions based on fact, intuition, and wit. The other folks take what they are spoon fed and believe it. Or their head is filled with too many ideas, and they can't differentiate between them. I consider myself both educated and informed. I differentiate between propaganda and honest thoughts. Some propaganda I choose to buy into, just to save face. But, if I believe something is utter BS, I call it. You can't just throw something at me, and expect me to believe it without a good backup of facts, examples, and hard evidence.
Sammy, I think I do believe people are drawn to bloodshed. But like you say, what is going to be talked about more? Many folks consider the nice, feature stories "fluff." They don't even consider them newsworthy. But, I believe news doesn't have to be die-hard events. Sure, cover those, but I think news is also the interesting, nice stories. Anything that will have someone saying "wow, that's cool." Still news. However, I deffinitly agree with you. I think the bloodshed is often times discussed out of concern than need to see it. But, nonetheless, folks are still drawn to it for that very reason. Concern or not, they still want to know about it. When I write a mid-east story, I never think about ratings. First thing I do is look for the most important, interesting information. That is alway the focus of the story. Then I work around that. I don't seek out the bloodshed. It's just that, often, that's what those stories entail. Like the Afghani car attack last night, the reason that is pertinent, besided one soldier dying, is that they are our allies, but moreso, they were on their way to training sponsored by the US. Bloodshed is gory, but yes, people want to know why it happened. But, yup, I agree. The good news kind of cushions the rest of the harsh world events. People like it, they are grateful for the break, and they move on.
Snowbear, as for 9-11. You're dang right nothing else mattered on that day. The ENTIRE world stopped. Doesnt matter if they were mourning or cheering, they all watched. The first terrorist attack on US soil... huge event in history. Huge. I was born in New York. I am used to flying into La Guardia and seeing the Trade Center after Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty. Not seeing it is a shock. Not to mention, if you took everyone who died in both attacks, NY and DC, you could probably link at least one person to another in every country in the world. The thing was, there were new developments every 5 seconds. Shi, whoops, I mean shoot, the other tower crashed while reporters were just talking about the first. That was definitely a day I support immense continuous coverage. Now, if you want to talk about the one year anniversary, many networks tried not to blow that out of proportion. That, I think, was important. Too much of that would be out of hand. But, on the day of one of the biggest events in our history, I think the coverage was superb and not too continuous. I mean, you couldnt even make a phone call, all the lines were tied up. That was a heavy day.
As far as local news. Yeah, you hit it on the head about accuracy. When I started in local, it was basically kids reporting. Because they got paid nada. However, the sacrifice there is that you get a lot of mistakes. I deffinitly won't argue that. Local news coverage can be very frustrating to watch. When you get to the larger markets, it gets better. There are 205 markets, I started in 120, which isnt too bad right out of school. We made our fair share of mistakes, me included, but we tried. Just be happy you can tune into the networks for a little salvation. But, that doesn't fulfill your local needs. I feel you there. That one's tough, and there arent any easy solutions.
Scotts, I will explain how a story gets on the air in a little bit, I havent forgotten. But, I need to work on getting some stories on the air myself. I'll be back soon. This should give yall a little reading for a bit. :D
Keep it goin yall. Rock on. :cool:
 

snowbear

Member
HT - thanks for the response about 9-11. I wasn't so much talking about THAT day as much as the next couple of days. You're right, there was "breaking news" every few minutes, even seconds. But the next couple of days the same tape seemed to be looping over and over with every once in a while something changed or new. Don't get me wrong - I think for the most part you guys are doing an awesome job. I still watch the local news (sometimes me or my co-workers are on - which costs ice cream :rolleyes: ) but we like to see what we're up to. Usually it's doing a good job, sometimes we look good to the public, but look like idiots to each other :eek: . We can then talk amongst ourselves and find out what REALLY happened, and of course, eat the ice cream ;) .
 

snowbear

Member
p.s. I think I figured out who you are. If so, I'm definitely impressed!! Can I email you and confirm it? Out of respect for your "anonymity" (?is that a word?) I'll keep the info to myself if you wish.
 

hairtrigger

Active Member
hey, I'll get back to the 9-11 and other stuff in a minute. That stuff takes thought, so i can only post little stuff now, while I am working. But, as for the name, throw it out. I will tell you if you are right or wrong through email. You could email me, but my email addresses give away my name. And the way some people talk about the media on here, I'm skeered. :D However, I have only been at this job for a couple of months. I was in local right before this. PR had people come in tonight to take pictures for the website, so mine isn't up yet. :cool:
 

snowbear

Member
DANG!! OK, I was wrong if your pic isn't up yet, but that one looked a lot like the one on Rye's page! I'll wait a bit until they get more pics up before I make another guess :D Believe me, I have the same issues about just throwing my name out there. With very little effort, it's not really that hard to at least get my general location. PO box in a different town (it's on the way to work) and unlisted phone # can only do so much. My mom's # is listed with her name, so she occasionally gets calls by people trying to contact me. I finally have her convinced to just get a # and name so I can return the call rather than giving out my #. Same thing goes at work. We don't give out home or cell #'s. Our admin doesn't even give out #'s to cops or lawyers trying to contact us about runs without asking first.
Here's my email addy if you want to tell me. If not, I won't be offended :cool:
Snowbear
 

hairtrigger

Active Member
Maybe they had one from my reporting resume tape, it is possible. I never actually checked the site, I just assumed since the only pictures of me are on video. But then again, they can take stills from that I think. I just know they hadnt taken one until tonight. :cool: I'll respond to the rest shortly, promise. If I dont pass out. :D
 

scotts

Active Member
HT,
I thought of all people a reporter would get the deep throat thing. You must really be tired.
Wrassecal,
That is pretty funny.
Scott
 

saltyrich

Active Member
I'm very impressed with such comentary people! Bravo!!!! It is nice to see such a level of educated thinking. Without writing a book here, my impression is simple. The media here is a powerful tool and as more than just a general trend, they strive for accurate reporting. Are certain items omitted? Probably? Will it greatly effect your life? Probably not. Should you enjoy the level and quality of news reporting you recieve? Absolutely. It has been stated earlier that other countries offer very limited news and only in the form of propoganda. This is very much the case. Being a world traveller, I don't think many Americans understand just how many freedoms and luxuries they are afforded. It is easy to criticize, but remember that this is one of the few places that you CAN criticize virtually whatever you want to. Is our media a propoganda structure? To some extent, yes. Bear in mind though that there are some items of news that you do not need to know, nor would want to. Our country does indeed suppress others to gain the things it wants. Some of those tactics many of you would not opprove of. Just remember this -- it just doesn't matter in the long run. Why? The boot of America is placed on many other countries necks in order for us to have ALL of the creature comforts that we have. If you don't believe this, then you are nieve. If you don't agree with it, then that is ok also. Virtually every other western country operates in the same way, we just do it better. The rest of the world is open for those who want to try it out somewhere else because they think the system is wrong here. I ashure you, you'll be surprised when you find out just how good you've got it in America. Someone has to be the strongest. As an archaeologist, I can tell you that this IS human nature and it has ALWAYS been the case and ALWAYS will be. Should and could some things change? Probably. Will they? Who knows. Just be glad you are where you are.
 

wrassecal

Active Member

Originally posted by HairTrigger

Wrasse, you throw some real brain teasers out there, very cool. Now, I will play devil's advocate and argue the American media doesn't spread propaganda, intentionally anyway. I think the government does though, so I cant argue for them.
Now, we don't promote any specific ideas in our stories. We might discuss them, or tell about them, but we never say "this is good, you should follow it." That would go against journalism. Journalism is unbiased story-telling. We don't ever say "We think Saddam is bad." We say "Saddam is the self-proclaimed president of Iraq, this is what he has done since being in power." Now, if the viewer thinks what he does is bad, that's their own opinion. Some people might think killing millions isn't bad. That's also their opinion. We just tell the story.
You will never see the media support or advocate a certain political party, or way of government. Now, on the "talk news shows" you might. But, they are allowed to offer their personal views. That is why we report scandals on both sides of the line. We might not report every rumored scandal because we don't have the facts to back it up. But, we will if we get that information.
Now, about the global events, I don't think we are skewing that stuff so people see it through our eyes. We are showing it how it is over there. If folks think things are scary over there, it's because they are. Terror is a daily way of life over there. The reason we don't show Europe in a bad light, is because Europe generally refrains from the attrocities the mid-east lives everyday. But, things are sketchy over there.
I don't really think we should be jumping right into war. But, I do feel that if Saddam doesnt disarm, we need to force him. He is too unstable to have the kind of weapons he has. I believe he would use them on us if he felt threatened enough. He might not even use them on us, he might use them to try and take over the rest of the mid-east like he wants to. And if he used that crap there, it would pollute that section of the globe for ages. He is too volitile to be running a country with chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction.
You say your son is going overthere. I hope he does well. If he is a Marine, you don't have to worry. Those guys are harda$$es. My father was in Marine-Recon (Covert, and Special Forces) in Vietnam. Entire platoons of Iraqi soldiers have surrendered to a single unit of Marines, that's how scared and intimidated they are of them. Not to mention, they want to escape Saddam.
But, thanks, if I go, I do hope God comes with me. But, you can be sure, I want God covering me from above.... but I want those Marines covering everything else. :cool:
Oh yeah, one more thing. I actually agree with littlefishys. I think propaganda works best on the uneducated and uninformed.


As I write this reply CNN (and all the news networks) is airing the govt daily briefing by Rumsfeld. They are at the ask and answer portion between them and the white house media reps. It goes hand in hand my friend. Your are a part of the government propaganda machine. I'm going to jump a little further in your response and say I think that you were just sleepy when you wrote the part about the media not supporting the way of any government, you are advocating the American way of government and that is as it should be.
As to the "talk news shows" on CNN what percentage of programing does that entail? Quite a bit. What about all the retired military "experts" x - FBI, CIA, inspectors etc that come and point to the great visual maps that CNN has supplied and answer questions from the unbiased reporter. Come on HT, just because the guy asking the questions isn't "propagandizing" what about the expert they are questioning? That doesn't count as media or journalism? The talk news shows don't count as media or journalism? Rumsfeld answering all these questions (or not answering them) I'm right now listening to doesn't count as media/journalism? Don't you know that lies and mis-information is all part of it. I'm not complaining, let them lie to us through the media if it will help keep my country safe. I'm seeing it all on CNN. I think you are looking at your profession through rose colored glasses. For goodness sake the US government uses the media, especially networks like CNN that are seen around the world to show the "bad guys" what we want them to see, which again I am in favor of. They just did a report on that issue on CNN.
Please don't think I am putting down our media. I AM NOT. I fully expect the media of my country to report in a manner consistent with the believe systems of my country. I fully expect our government to use the propaganda machine of our international media to get the messages out that WE choose to get out. It is in our best interests and serves OUR society. Very few seem to understand my point on propaganda. I tried to explain in a previous post that a society's propaganda can be GOOD for that society and helps us understand the norms and taboos of that society so that we can continue to BE that society. I only posed the question of why I am not allowed equal access to the propaganda of other countries, why my options are limited to the world view of the western culture (which includes Europe). I'm thinking I've answered my own question
:eek:
My son called last night and he got his orders. He is going to Kuwait, a forward area deployment. I wish I could be sure that what we hear is correct, but I'm not....so after I hung up I cried and cried and wanted to throw things against the wall and scream.....it doesn't matter if he is 20 months old or 20 years old he his my son, and before I am a wife or a sister or a daughter or an American, I am a mother.....and there are many thousands of us around the country that felt exactly what I felt last night when they got the call from their children. We now join the thousands before us and the thousands that will come after. A great dissonance has been descended upon us, in a most personal way, and we will eagerly turn to the media for reports on the war that is coming in an attempt to create a balance in our minds and reassure ourselves that our children are safe. HT, I think you are right about one thing at least.....if you go, may God and
the Marines go with you:D
Geez, I just reread this post....I think I need to turn off the news and go stare at the tank for a while
 

saltyrich

Active Member
Hey Wrassecal,
My thoughts and prayers got out to you and your son during this holiday season (or any other time for that matter). I grew up in the military and my father currently works for the Dept. of Defense. I have NO doubt that your son is beyond prepared to do his job and duty. He is the tip of the sword. Be very proud. I'm certain all of us here wish him godspeed in returning.
 

wrassecal

Active Member
Saltyrich - thank you and I am VERY PROUD of him. He also has no doubt he is prepared. I don't think there will be very many families in America that are not touched by this in some way, so I'm going to just keep praying for all of us.
I actually came back on here because I thought of something funny. HairTrigger said he didn't get the "deep throat" thing at first. In the past few days I heard a report and I could be wrong( and I'm sure will be corrected) but I think it was at CNN, that as the "day shift" was reporting to work and turning on their internal TV monitors, that some ---- was on because some guy had been using the equipment to dub ---- and somehow it was showing on their monitors.......I hope this is not the reason HT didn't "get" the deep throat reference. :D :D :D ( HT I am just kiddin with ya)
 

scotts

Active Member
Wrasse,
May I be one of the frist to thank your son for defending our freedoms and allowing us to have a forum like this. I have to admit that I am not totallly sure of your point but I will now say a little bit.
Does the government lie to use through the media. Sure they do. Is this a good thing. Yes, about certain things. Case in point. In the Iraq war the army moved all of it's forces near Kuwait. Then they secretly moved the bulk of the forces to the north. However all the reporters were reporting from near Kuwait. In this case it was beneficial and allowed the army to do an end run. I think there are matters of security that we do not need to know about.
However I also think the media investigating the government is a good thing also. I am fascinated(sp) with watergate. Because of the media a very dangerous man was removed from the presidency. I just watched a series of shows about it, along with an interview with Nixon in 1976. In these shows Bob Woodward said that Nixon's real crime was not the cover up, but trying to manipulate the election process. Don't forget water gate was trying to tap the office of the democrats so Nixon could find out what strenghts and weaknesses they had. Just one of a series of "dirty tricks". Also in the interviews Nixon was asked if soemthing was illegal he said "If the president said it is OK then not illegal." Also the Saturday night massacre was because of the feeling that a president should have the right to not answer to a subordinate employee. To me that sounds like a dictator. Plain and simple.
Yes the media and the government are a double edged sword.
Just a note. I liked in a press briefing on the first night of the Iraq war. Powell was asked if there was any colatoral damage. Powell said. I don't know but Bernard Shaw says we are doing a pretty good job. For those of you who don't remember He was one of the journalists who were broadcasting from inside a hotel during the bombing. Don't bother me I am watching.
Scott
 

wrassecal

Active Member
Scotts - thank you. I think by your post above you do understand my point.
Watergate is fascinating stuff - it is those reporters who step outside of the box that bring us enlightenment, even though they tend to suffer the consequences. You might notice I'm kind of an "outside the box" person.:)
 

lrswls

Member
The media is so tainted and bias to what they want to create as news it makes me sick. Whats the next hot topic for the liberal media to conquer. We will not know until the facts can be tainted to support their point of view. Please do not tell me there is no bias, this would be impossible to achieve since humans are involved. The fact that people keep fish in tanks can be argued by PETA as cruel and unfair. But when as anti-FUR campaign arises and the "news" gets some benefit they will exploit all watching.
 
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