if i got anyone upset over my feelins i am sorry

[davidsmith]

i dont know if anybody live in the new york area but the reason for this great post were cause of my views that the people of this board didnt like. well anyway i see that i am not the only person that feels that way and i read this whole post and it is great . now the thing that bothers me is that this weekend i went to ground zero better know as 9 11. i work there that day and lost a a few freinds and it was sad u can see the bottom of the building were i used to get off the path train at . i was sitting there and there were people telling kids stories to i guess there little ones that have passed away. also a guy drawing the place. i was very quite there and i never heard it like that . it felt very weird like tehre were people every were but couldnt see them like ghosts. when u stand in front of the wtc building 1 if you look to your left there is another building there with black sheer sheets covering it and if you look good half the building is still torn apart. and as i stood there i thought about that day and how scary it was. and a freind of mine work for a security company there and was eating at the windows of the world and thats were the first plane hit he called his dad and was talking to him he said he couldnt see anything butit was very windy the dad told us that when he was talking to him he was telling him to go to the stairs and all of a sudden the phone shut off that when he look at the tv and the building fell. i cant see how people can just all of sudden be so strong because of a thing like this. everyone is all toghter . but it takes a bulding to fall for everyone to notice were all the same no matter what color we are are what god we trust.and know a man who rund our country is fighting for oil and starting a war . but instead he should be trying to prevent this of happening again . i could go very much more into it but i feel the way were are going about our selves as americans is all wrong and we need to change that. i hate hearing about people that are racist and dont like the other person cause of there god and color i am with a black women and she is beatifull and i am half spanish and irish. so i know that it will never change but if we as people could teach our children these things we wouldnt have to live in fear . and for the person who said i was young and iggnornant trust me im not young and not ignorant i work for johnson@johnson as a international account manager and i deal with people around teh world everyday. well as of that everyone have a nice holiday and a safe new year

 

[scotts]

David,
While this post has certainly evolved into a very lively discussion you had to admit that there are some points to be made from your last post. First of all most of us in this country are open minded and do not see a persons color, religion, sexual preference or whatever else you can think of. There may be a minority of close minded idiots that ruin the apple barrell. However those people that did the horriffic deed can not see the freedoms that we have. You have to wear a beard, your women have to cover up head to toe, women cannot work. Well guess what you idiots, 70% of your teachers were women. If they cannot teach your children then what is going to happen to your country in 20 years.
Hey, if you want to wear a beard, that is your choice. If your wife want to cover up from head to toe, hey that is her choice. Unforunately those close minded %^&*(^^%(* think that their way is right, and that is the only way it should be. I will gladly let you believe in your religion and celebrate your holiday however you want. Just let me do the same. Like I have said on another board. You can put your menorah right beside my Christmas tree.
Don't get me started!
Scott

 

[davidsmith]

of course what you are saying has some truth but i am chatholic and not muslim but to be honest tehre are alot more racisrt people were i live . i am not saying anyone on this chat is. i dont know what to say . guess this is the world we live in and i just wanna live happy and i hope that everyone else does to. i love ll people and love all gods i just came on here to find out some stuff about my live rock but i am addicted to this site its funny how we chat but we need this kind of conversation some times it lets get speak our mind and we have to agree to other people thoughts

 

[scotts]

I think the most important thing that you are trying to say is that we can agree to disagree!!!
Scott

 

[davidsmith]

exactly and on that note i hope everyone has a nice holiday and tell your fish i said merry christmas

 

[scotts]

Sammy.
I must admit I am a little confused. I thought that I had made it clear that I made it clear that I VERY much belive in the fact that you can believe in your thoughts and I will believe in mine. I do not care if you are white, black, lation, gay, stragith, catholic, baptist, muslim, tall, short, blonde, brunette or whatever.
What those A@@holes did on 9/11 was totally incomprehensible. They are trying to tell us that we have to think like they do. That is total BS.
If my post came across as different than that I would like to hear your opinions so that I can edit my post to sound different.
Scott

 

[wamp]

I am with sammy on his thoughts. The signs for an attack were there, we just did not see them or understand them. This whole thing, according to osama, could be avoided if the americans would get out of the muslium holyland. It was a reaction to things that americans have done in the past. Is it right? HELL no! But thats their beliefs. I don't faught people for what they belive. I may think it is stupid, but it's not my opinion, it's theirs... I am also with sammy on the fact that it was not an attack to kill people. It was to stab america in the economic powerhouse. To disrupt or way of life and cause total caious.

 

[wrassecal]

I totally agree with Sammy and Wamp but, they may want to part company with me when they read this. The media, FBI,ATFB and other government agencies refuse to release the tapes, proofs of connections etc on this but that doesn't mean it isn't there. I too have experienced the bombing of a building, a building that luckily 2 members of my family escaped. The Murrah building in OKC. It was not accomplished by just those two yahoos McVeigh and Nichols who were but pawns of the terorists, Make no mistake that too was a terrorist attack by militant muslims on a government building. The main leaders of that attack were Kuwaiti's that were "relocated" to OKC after the Gulf War. They were sponsored (so they could live here)by a middle-eastern american who is a builder in OKC. There is also a proven connection between Nichols and Al Queda in the Phillipines. One of our local reporters who gathered information on video was fired and since has been calling for the government to release the survellience tapes from buildings surrounding the Murrah building. The government refuse to release the tapes.There are credible people trying to get this information released but so far they scramble it and spin it and dismiss it. That doesn't mean it isn't true. It was but a trial run using as the so called "chatter" called it white ghosts of the US. These terrorists have so infiltrated our society they even knew how to use our own radical element against us and so far they have gotten away with it. I thought after the WTC the government would find a spin to start letting this information out without looking like they were hiding what they knew all along, but it hasn't happened. I consider that one of the signs that something bigger was coming. Please don't make me change my status to "conspiracy theorist"

 

[hairtrigger]

Sweet! I'm glad to see this post is still alive. I am surprised. Ive got a lot to type tonight. But, it has to be in a couple hours, we are busy early tonight. Ugh. I don't think it was us that did the ---- thing, but you never know. When I come back, I'll tell you something we did bomb on air. It was pretty funny.

 

[hairtrigger]

Havent forgotten. Just still busy, going to put in some overtime this morning. Ugh.

 

[saltyrich]

Allow me to reiterate. ALL of your opinions are warranted. It is what makes our nation great. BUT - None of them really matter except to yourselves. World police? Absolutely. Should it be that way? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. The reason I feel this way is that I enjoy my freedoms here in America. The ability to communicate, rant, rave, whatever. Just like we are doing here. You must understand that this is one of the few places it can be done. It is easy for us to sit back and speculate about our country's involvment in the Middle East or anywhere else. The military presence globally usually relates to various underlying economic factors. If you don't believe it, that is unfortunate. I personally don't want to pay $5.00 a gallon for oil. Let me explain that Iraq sits on the second largest supply of oil in the world. Most of it cannot be tapped by their technology. I can ASSURE you that there are at least 4 major countries positioning a unified coalition to extract that oil for GLOBAL purposes after a post-Saddam Iraq. How is all of this accomplished? Military, military, military. The fact that Saddam is an idiot as well as a MINOR threat within his region is a bonus and all the justification anybody needs. I refer back to my post previously which states that this the way of humanity. Increasing population throughout history and PREHISTORY results in the strongest taking what they need from the weaker. IT IS HUMAN NATURE. Trust me, I research this for a living. It is real. Humanity is competitive. No one group can have access to everything they need. Thus, you trade for it and/or take it. It is reality. It cannot be changed. If it were not us, it would be someone else. The only way to feel decent about it is to be glad you're on the winning side. At least for now. This is one of hundreds of examples. As far as the war on terrorism is concerned, it is real. My father works for the Dept. of Defense, and there are covert operations going on everywhere. You people would simply not believe it. It is sad that it took 9-11 to push it to this point. I also strongly beg to differ with the opinion that the US involvement in the Middle East is soley to blame for the 9-11 attack. It was a part of it, but that blame is a bit too convenient. Historically speaking, various events of lesser magnitude have happened throughout history and prehistory as a result of the HAVES and the HAVE NOTS. To finish off, some folks need world policing because they run around unchecked. One of these days it may be us. Nevertheless, it took a group of badasses to put Hitler and Mussolinni in check didn't it. I repeat, just be glad you're on the winning side for now. It is a rough world out there under other regimes. The grass is definately greener here.

 

[scotts]

Sammy,
I will tell you that I misunderstood your earlier post with my quote in it. You are talking about the larger issue of trying to solve this problem. I went to school with serveral palestinians. I could study with them, drink a beer with them not problem. However they were raised different from us. A lot of what they were brought up with was in the past. What happened 2,000 years ago is very important to them. Since we have only been around for a little over 200 years we are not as concerned with the past. How to solve the problem. H#$l I don't know.
As far as I am concerned, you stay on your side of the world and I will stay on mine.
Scott

 

[saltyrich]

nolfinwe,
I hear what you're saying. It is not reality though, unfortunate as it may be. We all exploit on a smaller scale every day. It is just easier to criticize the larger more visible exploitations that happen across the globe. Everyhting you do, buy, see, participate it, etc.. is at the expense of someone else. The only way to prevent this is to go WAY further than giving up cable and taking public transportation. I'm not criticizing, just providing examples. The public transportation requires oil/gas also. We would all have to retreat into the wilderness and totally self-sustain ourselves off of the land. There simply is not enough land to ever accomplish this goal. Farming subsidies, clothing, electricity, oil, gas, virtually every single raw material on the planet, medications, EVERYTHING we use every day, etc.. Are you starting to see the big picture. Exploitation in itself is human nature and has been since the dawn of existence. It is impossible to just choose the items we criticize when we ourselves are being hypocritical and exploitatious on smaller scales as well. I'll stop now. It is a wonderfully refreshing idea and concept to be world philanthropists. just remember, it is not a reality. Even Ghandi couldn't pull it off.

 

[fishfood]

Very true sammy. Saudia Arabia is not an ally in my eyes. They have oil and we buy it from them. Thats it. Seeing that we use more oil than anyone else on the planet if we could reduce our dependance on it and just stop buying from opec then we would shut down many countries, or at least not depend on being friends with them. Saudia Arabia would end up calling us to help protect them from saddam when he rolls in to take their oil. BTW, If i was the president of a country that had the largest deposit of oil and a super power who needs oil is knocking down my door I'd probably keep nukes in my back yard also. IMO we could be dependant of oil if we wanted to be but we have the oil companies/car companies and what not in bed with the politicians of the country, plus shutting down or limiting those industries will kill a lot of jobs, but i imagine that in turn we would be able to create new ones with the alternative fuel productions.
We could also get a lot more support from Europe if we decided to push the alternative fuels. We lost the support when the Kyoto (sp) treaty was dropped. OK maybe we didn't have the support but the like us even less now.

 

[wrassecal]

The fossil fuels v other energy sources has been going on for almost 50 years and the US has not gotten any where measurable and big on that issue. Nothing we can do about it.
We may be young and we may say all religions are welcome and we may say seperation of church and state, but the US was based on the christian religion and we will back Israel to end of time. Sometimes, it's what we don't say that really counts.
Get ready folks it's coming and it's not going to be the same as last time. My step-son, another Marine called this morning from Okinawa. He's due to come home in 2 weeks and they have to stay and the rest of his fleet that was already on the way home has been called back. We don't fight Iraq from Japan, we fight North Korea from there!
FYI - hope I'm not disappointing Sammy but I drive an Expedition 4 wheel drive and love being able to, not that I would not give up, but I don't want to have to.

 

[mldamsel]

what was the comment

 

[mldamsel]

hair trigger sometimes you guys arent right about the weather though

 

[beth]

Well, I have to put in my 2cents on this one. No one in this country is worthy of sainthood, let alone any politician, but to think that the hatred going on with Muslim extremist is based solely on American interference is just naive. Bin Ladin is power hungry and he is, just as he says he is, on a holy war. His holly war is to eradicate all non-Muslim forces. The hatred he holds for us is based on our support of Israel. Also, Bin Liden, and those that think like him, fear the principles that we have---namely freedom “for all” and our superpower and super influence to inspire that principle throughout the world.
The Muslim countries would like nothing better than to stomp Israel into oblivion, never to see or hear from a Jew again. Sound familiar???? Their Holy Land?? Since when? Islam has been around for less then 2 millenniums. How long has Judi sum been with us? Since recorded history, that’s how long. So who’s “holy land” is it? The Jews own one little parcel of land, that, since their creation as a nation in the 20th century, they have made concession after concession to give up land to other Arab nations/Muslim peoples. And what exactly have they gotten for that? They can’t even go to work wo fear of being bombed. THEIR holy city, Jerusalem, is sliced in half between Jews and Muslims. What else should they give up? I’ll tell you what. Their very existence. And that is the goal of Bin Ladin. So we, big bad USA, interfere with that. Well, that really is too dang bad, isn’t it.
In our efforts to be “fair” and understanding, and “tolerant” lets not lose sight of what is the truth. Bin Ladin is motivated by the desire for power and his weapon is oppression, weather thru religious trappings or outright volatile means---oppression to others who do not hold to his distorted believes---including other Muslims. Bin Ladin didn’t mean to kill all those people on 911?? Come on! He launched that attack in the middle of a work week, first thing in the morning when everyone would be at work! If he wanted to minimize killings, he would have bombed at 3am on Sat nite. He wanted to kill as many of us as he could, and he did.
The reality of mankind is survival of the fittest. And if WE, peoples of free nations, of which the USA ARE the leaders, do not propagate that and even “enforce” it, if you will, where exactly will we end up? I, personally, don’t want to have to wear covers from head to toe, or starve to death unless some man is supporting me. That’s not a world I want to live in. And, the truth is, most Muslim people don’t want to live like that either. Truth is, the Iraqi people are itching to get rid of Mr Saddam, and the Iranians would like nothing better than to send their nutty theocratic version of Hitler to Hades.
So, its all a lie. The media and our government are really trying to brain wash us in to believing this stuff, right? I'm smarter than that, and so is everyone here.

 

[j21kickster]

 

[beth]

LOL. That is the funniest thing I've seen all week!