"If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon," said our president.

[jerthunter]

Why not this one? The photos the family released where from when he was like 13. The later pictures show a pretty good sized kid. Supposedly 6' 3". Zimmerman does sound like a whimp which makes his self defense case stronger.
Suspicious, as in looking in windows as you walk past houses while talking on a cell phone. I mean what is suspicious to you? We all have different opinions on that I am sure.
First, many of the pictures circulating as being the 'real' Trayvon are actually of someone else with the same name. I guess that just reinforcees the stereotype that all white people think all black people look alike. I'm not sure what pictures you are referring so I can't say they are necessarily of someone else, but all the pictures I have seen, he looked like a rather slim kid, not someone I would fight off with a gun.
As far as acting suspicious, I hear what you are saying, but the only way we will know is if Zimmerman describes what was suspicious to him.
Hopefully the cops asked him that at his interview since if yyou ask him now he could easily change his story o come of sounding better.

 

[jerthunter]

For information regarding some of the pictures please see the following:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/in-trayvon-martin-case-plenty-of-misinformation/2012/03/28/gIQAxaPhgS_blog.html?tid=pm_world_pop

 

[beth]

I think most people these day are wary of people they don't recognize walking around, or even driving around their neighborhood. As more and more crimes hit home, especially crimes that virtually go unaddressed by law enforcement such as break-ins, home thefts, then you are going to see more and more people in neighborhoods keeping an eye out and doing what they can to dissuade law breakers from targeting their homes.
bionicarm, the scenario you described is about as wild and unlikely as it gets. If Zimmerman was brandishing his gun from the get go, then Trayvon Martin would not have been able to land a punch to his nose, reportedly breaking it, then proceed to knocking him to the ground and pounding his head on the pavement. Trayvon beating on Zimmerman and Zim calling out for help, unlike your wild imagination, was WITNESSED by witnesses. It is better to stick to what we know rather then dreaming up wild scenarios.
Oh, my son would first and foremost attempt to deescalate a situation rather than come out swinging just because someone seems to be following him. Trayvon had a cell phone with him. Why not call the police if he felt threatened? The first reaction does not need to be brute force, and hopefully most parents will teach their sons this. Otherwise, they may find themselves in the same tragic and sad situation that the Martin family is now experiencing.
Trayvon's parents have every right to push for a complete investigation that leaves no stone unturned. They have every right to expect and demand that. I will never fault them for wanting that and seeking that. But why all the race hate? Why do black activist and hate groups such as the Black Panthers need to be in on this? The Martin's own community support their demands for a complete investigation. I would rather have my neighbors and fellow community members support my efforts then politically motivated, race baiting activists whose only care is for their own agenda. Going down that road will time and time again be self defeating for all blacks.

 

[mantisman51]

Like on the news, talk shows, forums and FB, crickets when black on white crimes are mentioned. Even when the crimes are far more hideous and suffering far worse than this media-hyped case. This is the problem with liberals. Where conservatives see crime as crime and want to see color blind justice and one yard stick applied to all, liberals start to equivocate and make excuses for "minorities" or ignore their crime altogether, but want the book thrown at what they see as "white conservatives". Glad I live waaayyyy out in the desert and can lose myself in the mesquite and creosote and forget all about this kind of thing by simply turning off the TV.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerthunter http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-treyvon-said-our-president/40#post_3467433
For information regarding some of the pictures please see the following:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/in-trayvon-martin-case-plenty-of-misinformation/2012/03/28/gIQAxaPhgS_blog.html?tid=pm_world_pop
Already know the one was not him but look at what Beth posted compared to what the family released.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-treyvon-said-our-president/20#post_3467423
Where are the witnesses to back up a single thing you assumed?
Here are a couple FACTS
Zimmerman was treated at the scene by paramedics.
A witness says it was Zimmerman who was screaming for help as the "kid" stood over him beating on him
At this point nobody knows which person started the physical altercation and that is what is going to make or break this case.
However the more info that comes out the more credible Zimmerman's story seems.
It's also interesting to note that when Martin was suspended from school one time it was after he was seen on the security cameras "acting suspicious" and later seen tagging a locker. When he was searched looking for the marker he used to tag the locker they found a bunch of women's jewelry and a flattened out screwdriver in his back pack. He claimed none of it was his and claimed someone gave it to him. Yeah, right. Maybe the kid was casing the neighborhood. We'll never know. Can't convict him without evidence. Just like Zimmerman.
Whose racial profiling now? Casing the area with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles? Again, why should we take the word of Zimmerman over this kid who longer has the opportunity to voice his side of the story? I saw the interview with the two women who made the initial call to police. They stated it was so dark outside, they couldn't clearly see who was yelling what at the time. After the one shot was fired, they were finally able to get a visual of the incident. They saw Zimmerman straddled over the top of Martin, who was face down at the time. He made no effort to try and submit CPR, or even check to see if he was still breathing. If Martin attacked Zimmermann from behind, why was he face down? Investigators also stated when they got to the scene, Martin was still face down with his main torso in the grass, and his feet hanging into the street. If he attacked Zimmerman as stated, as Zimmerman struggled and shot him when he got up, wouldn't Martin have been face up, with his head being on the street, as opposed to his feet?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-treyvon-said-our-president/40#post_3467437
I think most people these day are wary of people they don't recognize walking around, or even driving around their neighborhood. As more and more crimes hit home, especially crimes that virtually go unaddressed by law enforcement such as break-ins, home thefts, then you are going to see more and more people in neighborhoods keeping an eye out and doing what they can to dissuade law breakers from targeting their homes.
bionicarm, the scenario you described is about as wild and unlikely as it gets. If Zimmerman was brandishing his gun from the get go, then Trayvon Martin would not have been able to land a punch to his nose, reportedly breaking it, then proceed to knocking him to the ground and pounding his head on the pavement. Trayvon beating on Zimmerman and Zim calling out for help, unlike your wild imagination, was WITNESSED by witnesses. It is better to stick to what we know rather then dreaming up wild scenarios.
Oh, my son would first and foremost attempt to deescalate a situation rather than come out swinging just because someone seems to be following him. Trayvon had a cell phone with him. Why not call the police if he felt threatened? The first reaction does not need to be brute force, and hopefully most parents will teach their sons this. Otherwise, they may find themselves in the same tragic and sad situation that the Martin family is now experiencing.
Trayvon's parents have every right to push for a complete investigation that leaves no stone unturned. They have every right to expect and demand that. I will never fault them for wanting that and seeking that. But why all the race hate? Why do black activist and hate groups such as the Black Panthers need to be in on this? The Martin's own community support their demands for a complete investigation. I would rather have my neighbors and fellow community members support my efforts then politically motivated, race baiting activists whose only care is for their own agenda. Going down that road will time and time again be self defeating for all blacks.
What "witnesses"? There was a report of some 13 year old hearing someone yelling, but my understanding is there was no one who physically saw the altercation between these two individuals. The question still remains, was his nose actually "broken", or even bleeding? There's been no report of him going to a hospital to have his nose checked. No one's seen the guy after the cops released him that night. His lawyer claims the nose is broken, but where's the medical report to collaborate that story? The pictures on the ABC news feed didn't seem to show any blood or scrapes. He didn't appear to be in any pain, nor did it appear the cops ever looked at his nose while in their possession. If I had a busted nose, and was standing there handcuffed, I imagine I'd be complaining about wanting someone to check it.
How do you know this kid "came out swinging" when he confronted Zimmerman? Where's the proof? It's still only Zimmerman's account of that incident. Did Treyvon have an opportunity to call police or even pull out his cell phone? Some guy walk up to you with an exposed gun, you going to go digging into your pockets trying to pull out a cell phone? He'd surely get shot. "Oh I shot him because I thought he was going for a gun." Granted, Treyvon was no saint. I imagine he was the type that wouldn't back down from anyone when confronted. Most aggressive teenagers don't think logically when confronted in a threatening manner. Defense mechanisms kick in, and survival instincts take precedence. Bottom line, the only person alive that knows exactly what happened is Zimmerman. Believe me, the guy would NEVER admit he was the first aggressor, and instigated the confrontation to the point that it forced Treyvon to defend himself. As stated multiple times, if he simply would've stayed in his vehicle, waited for the cops to arrive, this incident would've never occurred in the first place. Considering Treyvon's size, would Zimmerman have even confronted him at all if he didn't have a weapon with him?

 

[mantisman51]

The police have stated repeatedly a 13 y/o boy said he saw Davis attack Zimmerman as Zimmerman walked back to his vehicle. If true, that blows the hell out of everything you have said. I don't think there's one person on this forum who would disagree with prosecuting Zimmerman or anyone else who walks up to someone, picks a fight and then shoots the unarmed victim. It is ludicrous for you, Bionic, to insinuate such things. There is far more to this story than your "racist whitey"(actually Hipanic but it is irrelevant other than to point out the ignorance being displayed by your side) gunned down an innocent black kid story.

 

[mantisman51]

Well, time to listen to some Journey, Carpenters and Ambrosia and forget this whole mess. Just another "us versus them" argument coming on.

 

[jerthunter]

I read about various witnesses so maybe I am missing something.
I have heard of 3 different witnesses.
One said he saw the guy in red (Zimmerman) on the bottom of a fight, then when he went downstairs (presumably to call 911 or break up the fight) the kid was already dead.
Two was a lady who said she saw Zimmerman standing over the boy (after the shot) and it didn't appear that he was trying to help the boy. She also said she THOUGHT it was the boy yelling for help.
Three was a teenage boy (I think 13 is it is relevant) who said he saw or heard some of the incident. News reports claim that he is stating that the police spoon fed him his testimony telling him to say it was Zimmerman yelling.
The problem is, who do you believe, is the boy changing his story now because of peer pressure? How certain are any of the witnesses that it happened this way or that?
There have been studies that show how inaccurate "eye witness" reports can be, often with different people giving different accounts of the same event. All I'm saying here is it is hard to rely on witness testimony were the conflict and some are apparently changing their minds.
Personally I would be more interested in the physical evidence. Did the boy have gun powder on his hand from grabbing at the gun? How close was the gunshot, where was the placement of the gun shot? Did the boy have bruises on his hands from punching (according to the funeral director he didn't, but I'd rather have a medical examiners opinion). I think that information would be more useful then he said, she said, he said, etc. witness statements.

 

[jerthunter]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-treyvon-said-our-president/40#post_3467463
Well, time to listen to some Journey, Carpenters and Ambrosia and forget this whole mess. Just another "us versus them" argument coming on.
For some reason Barry McGuire comes to my mind.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-treyvon-said-our-president/40#post_3467454
Whose racial profiling now? Casing the area with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles? Again, why should we take the word of Zimmerman over this kid who longer has the opportunity to voice his side of the story? I saw the interview with the two women who made the initial call to police. They stated it was so dark outside, they couldn't clearly see who was yelling what at the time. After the one shot was fired, they were finally able to get a visual of the incident. They saw Zimmerman straddled over the top of Martin, who was face down at the time. He made no effort to try and submit CPR, or even check to see if he was still breathing. If Martin attacked Zimmermann from behind, why was he face down? Investigators also stated when they got to the scene, Martin was still face down with his main torso in the grass, and his feet hanging into the street. If he attacked Zimmerman as stated, as Zimmerman struggled and shot him when he got up, wouldn't Martin have been face up, with his head being on the street, as opposed to his feet?
Excuse me? Racial profiling? How? The kid was caught with a burglary tool and women's jewelry at school. You telling me that using that information to form the opinion the kid might have been casing houses is race based. Can't wait to hear how that works LOL!
So the women that say it was too dark to see who was on top could somehow see that Zimmerman didn't check to see if the kid was alive? And still, So what? I guarantee you if I ever have to shoot someone I ain't checking vitals or rendering assistance because I operate on the policy of never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill or destroy.
The police say they saw grass on Zimmermans back and Zimmerman claims his head was pounded on the pavement. You don't suppose they may have moved around while the fight was on do you? As far as the kid landing face down it's a non issue, lots of things could explain that.

 

[jerthunter]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-treyvon-said-our-president/40#post_3467478
Excuse me? Racial profiling? How? The kid was caught with a burglary tool and women's jewelry at school. You telling me that using that information to form the opinion the kid might have been casing houses is race based. Can't wait to hear how that works LOL!
So the women that say it was too dark to see who was on top could somehow see that Zimmerman didn't check to see if the kid was alive? And still, So what? I guarantee you if I ever have to shoot someone I ain't checking vitals or rendering assistance because I operate on the policy of never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill or destroy.
The police say they saw grass on Zimmermans back and Zimmerman claims his head was pounded on the pavement. You don't suppose they may have moved around while the fight was on do you? As far as the kid landing face down it's a non issue, lots of things could explain that.
I personally don't think the kid's incidents should be considered since he wasn't convicted of theft, any more then I think Zimmerman's arrest for assault on a cop should be considered since he wasn't convicted either.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerthunter http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-treyvon-said-our-president/40#post_3467474
I read about various witnesses so maybe I am missing something.
I have heard of 3 different witnesses.
One said he saw the guy in red (Zimmerman) on the bottom of a fight, then when he went downstairs (presumably to call 911 or break up the fight) the kid was already dead.
Two was a lady who said she saw Zimmerman standing over the boy (after the shot) and it didn't appear that he was trying to help the boy. She also said she THOUGHT it was the boy yelling for help.
Three was a teenage boy (I think 13 is it is relevant) who said he saw or heard some of the incident. News reports claim that he is stating that the police spoon fed him his testimony telling him to say it was Zimmerman yelling.
The problem is, who do you believe, is the boy changing his story now because of peer pressure? How certain are any of the witnesses that it happened this way or that?
There have been studies that show how inaccurate "eye witness" reports can be, often with different people giving different accounts of the same event. All I'm saying here is it is hard to rely on witness testimony were the conflict and some are apparently changing their minds.
Personally I would be more interested in the physical evidence. Did the boy have gun powder on his hand from grabbing at the gun? How close was the gunshot, where was the placement of the gun shot? Did the boy have bruises on his hands from punching (according to the funeral director he didn't, but I'd rather have a medical examiners opinion). I think that information would be more useful then he said, she said, he said, etc. witness statements.
I haven't heard the 13 year old changed his story. I suspect they are waiting for results of the physical evidence at this point. If the kids prints are on the gun it's gonna be damn hard to make a case against Zimmerman. But I think you could have the Pope and Martin Luther King's ghost come forward and say they saw exactly what Zimmerman claims happen and he'd still get charged with something because of the Rodney King Syndrome. This is going to be a real mess.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerthunter http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-treyvon-said-our-president/40#post_3467481
I personally don't think the kid's incidents should be considered since he wasn't convicted of theft, any more then I think Zimmerman's arrest for assault on a cop should be considered since he wasn't convicted either.
I wouldn't think it's relevant unless they try to make a racial profiling claim. If Barney claimed the kid was acting suspicious was the reason he followed him then it becomes relevant. If Zimmerman has a history of violent acts that should be considered.

 

[jerthunter]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-treyvon-said-our-president/40#post_3467482
I haven't heard the 13 year old changed his story. I suspect they are waiting for results of the physical evidence at this point. If the kids prints are on the gun it's gonna be damn hard to make a case against Zimmerman. But I think you could have the Pope and Martin Luther King's ghost come forward and say they saw exactly what Zimmerman claims happen and he'd still get charged with something because of the Rodney King Syndrome. This is going to be a real mess.
I read about the 13 year old's account in a few places but here is one new story written about him.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/17/trayvon-martin-killing-yo_n_1355795.html

 

[jerthunter]

And although I do not think it is relevant to the case, here is a story about Zimmerman's previous run-in with the law. Since we are bringing up all the kid's past issues.
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/george-zimmerman-was-arrested-before-trayvon-martin-case-previously-accused-of-domestic-violence

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerthunter http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-treyvon-said-our-president/40#post_3467495
I read about the 13 year old's account in a few places but here is one new story written about him.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/17/trayvon-martin-killing-yo_n_1355795.html
Huffington Post, really? lol Come on guys, we all know that the media is nothing more than a distorted few of the facts. Let the justice system do it's thing and see where it lands. And then if you want to go and riot in the streets...knock yourself's out.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerthunter http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-treyvon-said-our-president/40#post_3467474
I read about various witnesses so maybe I am missing something.
I have heard of 3 different witnesses.
One said he saw the guy in red (Zimmerman) on the bottom of a fight, then when he went downstairs (presumably to call 911 or break up the fight) the kid was already dead.
Two was a lady who said she saw Zimmerman standing over the boy (after the shot) and it didn't appear that he was trying to help the boy. She also said she THOUGHT it was the boy yelling for help.
Three was a teenage boy (I think 13 is it is relevant) who said he saw or heard some of the incident. News reports claim that he is stating that the police spoon fed him his testimony telling him to say it was Zimmerman yelling.
The problem is, who do you believe, is the boy changing his story now because of peer pressure? How certain are any of the witnesses that it happened this way or that?
There have been studies that show how inaccurate "eye witness" reports can be, often with different people giving different accounts of the same event. All I'm saying here is it is hard to rely on witness testimony were the conflict and some are apparently changing their minds.
Personally I would be more interested in the physical evidence. Did the boy have gun powder on his hand from grabbing at the gun? How close was the gunshot, where was the placement of the gun shot? Did the boy have bruises on his hands from punching (according to the funeral director he didn't, but I'd rather have a medical examiners opinion). I think that information would be more useful then he said, she said, he said, etc. witness statements.
I was just channel surfing, and came across Nancy Grace. She was interviewing the mother of the 13 year old on the phone. The mother stated her son was in their backyard feeding their dog, when he hear someone yelling. He couldn't see who it was behind their fence. He then heard the shot, and decided to go out front to see what was happening. He told the police that all he could see was someone lying on the ground, but he couldn't tell his race because it was too dark. The cops then asked him the color of his clothing, HOWEVER, they gave him choices. Instead of letting him tell them what the color was, they said, "Was it Green, White, or Red." That's when he said, "I think he was wearing Red." I gues you could construe that as "spoon feeding" him information.
They also showed the ABC vieo again, and stated the timestamp of when he entered the station was only 30 minutes after they picked him up. Zimmerman's lawyer is saying the video is too grainy to determine whether he has scrapes on his head, or whether he had a broken nose.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-treyvon-said-our-president/40#post_3467520
I was just channel surfing, and came across Nancy Grace. She was interviewing the mother of the 13 year old on the phone. The mother stated her son was in their backyard feeding their dog, when he hear someone yelling. He couldn't see who it was behind their fence. He then heard the shot, and decided to go out front to see what was happening. He told the police that all he could see was someone lying on the ground, but he couldn't tell his race because it was too dark. The cops then asked him the color of his clothing, HOWEVER, they gave him choices. Instead of letting him tell them what the color was, they said, "Was it Green, White, or Red." That's when he said, "I think he was wearing Red." I gues you could construe that as "spoon feeding" him information.
They also showed the ABC vieo again, and stated the timestamp of when he entered the station was only 30 minutes after they picked him up. Zimmerman's lawyer is saying the video is too grainy to determine whether he has scrapes on his head, or whether he had a broken nose.
Huh, I heard the kid was taking his dog for a walk and it got off the leash. The kid said he heard the screams and was going to help but his dog got off the leash and he went to get it. That is according to the 911 tape at the time of the shooting.
One outfit blew up a frame of the video from the police station and it shows what could be a head wound but it is far from conclusive. The Paramedics report will be the best source on that.