It's things like this that give Marine's such a wonderful reputation...

[bang guy]

I'm not saying invade and take pillage the oil is the point... I'm simply pointing out that keeping crazy kooks from taking over a significant percentage of the world's oil supply, might be a valid reason to step in...
We tried reparations before, and it gave us Hitler...
I can see Iraq's invasion of Kuwait as a good reason to take up arms.

 

[mantisman51]

Bill Clinton, Hilary Clinton, Madeline Albright and Jeff Cohen all stated Iraq was developing WMD's. Clinton started the doctrine and foreign policy of regime change. The only thing GW did(and I am not a supporter of his in most things) is after 9/11 he became concerned if Al Qaeda received help from Saddam Hussein(remember, even Lord Bubba and company said they did), we might get hit with mustard gas, a biological weapon or a dirty bomb next time. Let me say it a third time, EVERY member of Clintons national security team said Saddam Hussein had or was developing WMD's. It is not a stretch of the imagination to think he would give some of those WMD's(that even the Clinton Administration said he had) to Al Qaeda to strike his most hated enemy. But I'm glad Democratics are coming around to put Lord Bubba's presidency in proper perspective; GW should have ignored everything that corrupt sucker and all of his cabinet said. Then he wouldn't be taking the blame for intelligence and a policy started by Lord Bubba.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation/60#post_3452090
Bill Clinton, Hilary Clinton, Madeline Albright and Jeff Cohen all stated Iraq was developing WMD's. Clinton started the doctrine and foreign policy of regime change. The only thing GW did(and I am not a supporter of his in most things) is after 9/11 he became concerned if Al Qaeda received help from Saddam Hussein(remember, even Lord Bubba and company said they did), we might get hit with mustard gas, a biological weapon or a dirty bomb next time. Let me say it a third time, EVERY member of Clintons national security team said Saddam Hussein had or was developing WMD's. It is not a stretch of the imagination to think he would give some of those WMD's(that even the Clinton Administration said he had) to Al Qaeda to strike his most hated enemy. But I'm glad Democratics are coming around to put Lord Bubba's presidency in proper perspective; GW should have ignored everything that corrupt sucker and all of his cabinet said. Then he wouldn't be taking the blame for intelligence and a policy started by Lord Bubba.
Perhaps she meant it the other way, and she is saying that Sadaam perpetrated the greatest ruse of the 1990's?
STDREB(giving the benefit of the doubt, because surely no one is that stupid)27

 

[beth]

I have always found it difficult to believe that our intelligence on WMD/Iraq was so poor that it propelled us to war for no reason.

 

[stdreb27]

well you have 3 options...
1. George W. Bush manipulated the Clinton Administration, and every foreign spy agency while he was Governor of Texas. Because he knew he was going to be President, and wanted to make sure Halliburton got Rich...
2. Sadaam fooled everyone.
3. Sadaam got rid of everything.
4. (well

) it is still hidden...

 

[kiefers]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation/60#post_3452060
I can see Iraq's invasion of Kuwait as a good reason to take up arms.
Okay, with all this talk about campagns here and with the current events overseas, why is it that the U.S. has to be the the one sticking our noses in first? I mean talking about wars like Vietnam, Korea, Kwait AND YADDYA YADDA. Does anyone see my point? Explain.
I mean I served, 12 years of servingand never questioned but really?

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation/80#post_3452103
I have always found it difficult to believe that our intelligence on WMD/Iraq was so poor that it propelled us to war for no reason.
Bill Clinton was at the helm until January 19th 2001. Do you honestly think he would have "let" hillary vote for the Iraq invasion if he didn't know the information on WMD's was accurate. Read Ted Kennedy's speech against going into Iraq. He flat out said Iraq had WMD's but felt we had Hussein contained and didn't need to invade. There are numerous other Democrats that also supported the war. Do you think they would have done so if the intelligence from the Clinton administration had been any different than what Bush was saying?

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiefers http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation/80#post_3452144
Okay, with all this talk about campagns here and with the current events overseas, why is it that the U.S. has to be the the one sticking our noses in first? I mean talking about wars like Vietnam, Korea, Kwait AND YADDYA YADDA. Does anyone see my point? Explain.
I mean I served, 12 years of servingand never questioned but really?
The US was part of a very large coalition for liberating Kuwait. We should drop from the UN if we don't want to be the front line anymore and I would support that. To your point, I agree we are spreading ourselves too thin and need to start being more discriminating when we choose our friends.

 

[mantisman51]

It is as simple as 2 steps: 1) Ban any oil and gas produced in the U.S. from being sold for use anywhere but the U.S. 2) Open up the entire U.S. territory for oil exploration as much as is possible. We would have enough oil to be 100% energy independent and not need the Middle East or South America. There goes 90% of future conflicts and we could leave the Middle East entirely and just support the true democracies of the Middle East: Israel. After the U.S. is completely out of the Middle East, there goes 80% of jihadis. Wind and solar, as good as they can be, will never be able to sustain the U.S. energy needs. Now I know this is all pie in the sky thinking because the enviro-whackos will never support more drilling and the internationalists want the U.S. to be involved in the Middle East, but the things I just mentioned would get us out of being the world's police officer. Some will say I sound like a Ron Paul supporter. No, I just think he's right about getting out of the world's affairs and worrying about America first. Where I disagree is I would keep a 2 war Army, Navy and Air Force and increase our carrier force to 15 fleets. That way we could let the rest of the world figure out their own place in it and still have the force to respond to any threat.

 

[mantisman51]

Oh yeah, and go back to enforcing the Monroe Doctrine like a rabid dog. If Russia, Iran or China want a base or to have military maneuvers in the Western Hemisphere, they have 5 carrier task forces and 30 attack submarines to get through first. Yeah, become the super power we really are. Just quit being afraid to flex some muscle. You'd see how quick the Chicoms, Russkies and Persians would back down.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation/80#post_3452288
It is as simple as 2 steps: 1) Ban any oil and gas produced in the U.S. from being sold for use anywhere but the U.S. 2) Open up the entire U.S. territory for oil exploration as much as is possible. We would have enough oil to be 100% energy independent and not need the Middle East or South America. There goes 90% of future conflicts and we could leave the Middle East entirely and just support the true democracies of the Middle East: Israel. After the U.S. is completely out of the Middle East, there goes 80% of jihadis. Wind and solar, as good as they can be, will never be able to sustain the U.S. energy needs. Now I know this is all pie in the sky thinking because the enviro-whackos will never support more drilling and the internationalists want the U.S. to be involved in the Middle East, but the things I just mentioned would get us out of being the world's police officer. Some will say I sound like a Ron Paul supporter. No, I just think he's right about getting out of the world's affairs and worrying about America first. Where I disagree is I would keep a 2 war Army, Navy and Air Force and increase our carrier force to 15 fleets. That way we could let the rest of the world figure out their own place in it and still have the force to respond to any threat.
Banning export of oil might actually increase oil prices domestically.

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation/80#post_3452371
Banning export of oil might actually increase oil prices domestically.
The idea is to stop relying on unfriendly nations for our energy. The increase in energy costs would be nothing compared to the savings in bowing to other nations.
Add nuclear power as an intermediate energy source until we come up with something better and I'll vote for Mantisman.

 

[reefraff]

Coal Gasification could produce enough fuel to offset what we get from unfriendlys but the green goons hate anything coal. Even if the fuel produced from it does burn cleaner than refined fuels.

 

[kiefers]

Well, I was in Kwait for the qhole ordeal, and I mean from day one to the last day of clean up. But I just don't see out of all these super powers the U.S. has to be the first one to react. All it does is cost us money, get our troops in harms way, and piss off folks. This whole thing going on now over seas is upsetting me because once again, here we go but nobody else is jumping on board.

 

[beth]

The only super power is the USA. Us having a hand in everything likely has a lot to do with that.
Not that I like it.

 

[reefraff]

Problem is if we don't try to be the worlds beat cop somebody else will. China is taking baby steps toward democracy. Maybe in about 50 years we could trust them to pick up the slack but for now, like it or not we are kinda stuck. What are we going to do, let the UN do it LOL!!!

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation/80#post_3452372
The idea is to stop relying on unfriendly nations for our energy. The increase in energy costs would be nothing compared to the savings in bowing to other nations.
Add nuclear power as an intermediate energy source until we come up with something better and I'll vote for Mantisman.
you're mixing apples and oranges, we don't get much electric power from oil.
The solution to oil independence isn't more regulation, such as a ban on oil exports. The solution, is a lifting on drilling bans throughout the united states...

 

[stdreb27]

I'm not against letting things be as they may, overseas. The problem is, some of these places have nukes. And well, if we let things be as they may, it may end up adversely affecting us...
On the flip side to that, if you have the means and ability, can you really turn the other way while innocent people are getting slaughtered and killed by some despot?

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation/80#post_3452570
I'm not against letting things be as they may, overseas. The problem is, some of these places have nukes. And well, if we let things be as they may, it may end up adversely affecting us...
On the flip side to that, if you have the means and ability, can you really turn the other way while innocent people are getting slaughtered and killed by some despot?
Do you mean Darfur? Yeah, apparently we do have the ability to stand by and watch if the country doesn't export a lot of oil.

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation/80#post_3452569
you're mixing apples and oranges, we don't get much electric power from oil.
The solution to oil independence isn't more regulation, such as a ban on oil exports. The solution, is a lifting on drilling bans throughout the united states...
I didn't say electricity.