Makes me wonder....

oscardeuce

Active Member
Ruby Ridge was a major cluster on the part of the gov't. There may not have been anything ilegal going on. Either way innocent people die.
You see what is coming out about fast and furious? This thing goes at least to Holder if not all the way to MR Obama ( who is a wealth spreading socialist). His words not mine.
 

mantisman51

Active Member
A jury cleared Randy Weaver of all criminal charges, except failure to appear. The jury also took the rare step of recommending 2nd degree murder charges against 2 ATF and 2 FBI agents who shot a 12 year old boy to death-in the back, and for shooting an unarmed woman between the eyes while she was holding her baby, killing her. Read the book by Jerry Spence who represented Randy Weaver. The media-government complex did a wonderful job lying about who Randy Weaver was, what he did, the cold blooded murder that took place there and then the massive cover-up afterward. It's a story of an out of control ATF that will make normal Americans sick and get liberals all tingly at the thought of such an all-powerful Federal government.
 

mantisman51

Active Member
The Federal judge said in court it was the clearest and most egregious case of entrapment that he had seen in over 30 years in legal practice. And it is exactly what the ATF and Holder/Obummer were trying to do to the gun dealers in Texas and Arizona. Set them up to take them down and use it as an excuse to force more gun control. One honest ATF informant is all that kept many gun shop owners from life in prison and more gun control forced on the American people.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/391871/makes-me-wonder/60#post_3477821
Man you people obviously don't know the meaning of an analogy. What happened with David Koresh and Ruby Ridge? THEY WERE GUN FANATICS THAT WENT AGAINST THE FEDERAL GOVT.. In their case, it was only the FBI and ATF that stepped in. That's all it took. I just used the Military as an extreme example of what COULD happen if enough NeoCon, NRA Packin', O'reilly/Hannity/Limbaugh followin', "I think Obama is a Socialist and is gonna take away all my personal liberties", extremist nutjobs were to try and start the next Civil War. It may be some noble and glorious act in your mind, but it would be an effort in futility all the same.
First off not everybody died at Ruby Ridge. Your heros only managed to kill an unarmed woman, a 14 year old boy and a dog and paid the Weaver family 3.1 million dollars for the privilege.
You seriously going to use the case of a small band of fanatics being attacked as proof the military will blindly follow any orders passed down from President Barry Q Clueless? I've known military people from WWII, Korea, Vietnam and Gulf War I and II and none of them were robots. Unlike know nothing Olberman/Madcow/Huffington Post following texas liberals these people all knew their first duty was to the constitution. I knew some guys stationed at 29 Palms when they were given the survey about "would you fire on Civilians of ordered to do so". They said the responses made the brass nervous.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Bionic,
If I understand the law, what your brother did falls under "manufacturing " a full auto firearm. That requires a different paper from Uncle Sam alongside with (I think)a form 2 on the new machine gun. The new gun would be a post may dealer sample and of limited use. The typical ffl and sot even as a gunsmith does not make you a manufacturer.
I might be wrong, or I might be a trolling ATF agent.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Bionic,
If I understand the law, what your brother did falls under "manufacturing " a full auto firearm. That requires a different paper from Uncle Sam alongside with (I think)a form 2 on the new machine gun. The new gun would be a post may dealer sample and of limited use. The typical ffl and sot even as a gunsmith does not make you a manufacturer.
I might be wrong, or I might be a trolling ATF agent.
If I remember correctly, it is a class III manufacturers license. I am just running off memory.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscardeuce http:///t/391871/makes-me-wonder/80#post_3477880
Bionic,
If I understand the law, what your brother did falls under "manufacturing " a full auto firearm. That requires a different paper from Uncle Sam alongside with (I think)a form 2 on the new machine gun. The new gun would be a post may dealer sample and of limited use. The typical ffl and sot even as a gunsmith does not make you a manufacturer.
I might be wrong, or I might be a trolling ATF agent.
Oscar, I didn't sit around disecting my brother's accredidations and what he could legally do or not do when he had his shop some 30 years ago. As stated, he had several friends who worked for the local PD, so I find it highly unlikely he would blatently defy any of the rules and regulations based on his specific FFL, with the risk of getting locked up in the hoosegow. Considering these same individuals would occassionally shoot the same weapons, you'd think if they knew they were illegal, they'd have done something about it. You can be a trolling ATF agent all you want. My brother closed his shop back in the early 80's, and pretty much all his equipment and inventory was sold decades ago.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Oscar, I didn't sit around disecting my brother's accredidations and what he could legally do or not do when he had his shop some 30 years ago.  As stated, he had several friends who worked for the local PD, so I find it highly unlikely he would blatently defy any of the rules and regulations based on his specific FFL, with the risk of getting locked up in the hoosegow.  Considering these same individuals would occassionally shoot the same weapons, you'd think if they knew they were illegal, they'd have done something about it.  You can be a trolling ATF agent all you want.  My brother closed his shop back in the early 80's, and pretty much all his equipment and inventory was sold decades ago.
I don't think anyone is trying to discredit your brother.
I believe some are calling you a liar based off the statements you have made in the past and how your defense goes in a circular motion.
Still waiting to hear how he ordered and purchased an UZI for civilian purposes..especially since the local PDs didn't have them in the 70's. Find me another wikipedia link. I won't even explain the "Gun Range" circular motion.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391871/makes-me-wonder/80#post_3477871
First off not everybody died at Ruby Ridge. Your heros only managed to kill an unarmed woman, a 14 year old boy and a dog and paid the Weaver family 3.1 million dollars for the privilege.
You seriously going to use the case of a small band of fanatics being attacked as proof the military will blindly follow any orders passed down from President Barry Q Clueless? I've known military people from WWII, Korea, Vietnam and Gulf War I and II and none of them were robots. Unlike know nothing Olberman/Madcow/Huffington Post following texas liberals these people all knew their first duty was to the constitution. I knew some guys stationed at 29 Palms when they were given the survey about "would you fire on Civilians of ordered to do so". They said the responses made the brass nervous.
reef, I'm citing worse case scenario. Who knows the mindset and mentality of someone whose serving in the military, and what exactly they would do if something as insane as this were to happen. Kind of like what those two or three dudes sitting at the bottom of a nuclear missle silo would do if they "got the call to turn the keys" (if in fact they have them there any longer.) Would you turn the key if so ordered? All I know is, if the day came that these Neocon wackos in this country were to go ballistic over some government policy, regardless of who was in office at the time, and they did try starting the next Civil War, I'd be on the first plane to the Caymans or Australia. You can stay and die for your freedoms. Sorry, I'm not that dedicated.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
  You can stay and die for your freedoms.  Sorry, I'm not that dedicated.
And that right there explains it all. You do not value the freedoms inherited upon birth. You find no value in them.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/391871/makes-me-wonder/80#post_3477895
reef, I'm citing worse case scenario. Who knows the mindset and mentality of someone whose serving in the military, and what exactly they would do if something as insane as this were to happen. Kind of like what those two or three dudes sitting at the bottom of a nuclear missle silo would do if they "got the call to turn the keys" (if in fact they have them there any longer.) Would you turn the key if so ordered? All I know is, if the day came that these Neocon wackos in this country were to go ballistic over some government policy, regardless of who was in office at the time, and they did try starting the next Civil War, I'd be on the first plane to the Caymans or Australia. You can stay and die for your freedoms. Sorry, I'm not that dedicated.
The difference between action against 30 or 40 isolated folks and several hundred is night and day, both strategically and politically. The thought of a civil war doesn't really worry me because I would be on the side of most of the gun owners and military. You guys on the left only have the gang bangers and they don't even know how to properly handle firearms LOL!
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391871/makes-me-wonder/80#post_3477959
The difference between action against 30 or 40 isolated folks and several hundred is night and day, both strategically and politically. The thought of a civil war doesn't really worry me because I would be on the side of most of the gun owners and military. You guys on the left only have the gang bangers and they don't even know how to properly handle firearms LOL!
What makes you think the military would side with you? There's more "liberals" in those ranks thaan you realize. I know, I work around them every day. LMFAO!
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/391871/makes-me-wonder/80#post_3477897
And that right there explains it all. You do not value the freedoms inherited upon birth. You find no value in them.
Please. Now we're reciting patriotic crap. It's called survival of the fittest. Let the weak-minded weed themselves out, then come back to a life of normalcy.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/391871/makes-me-wonder/80#post_3477962
What makes you think the military would side with you? There's more "liberals" in those ranks thaan you realize. I know, I work around them every day. LMFAO!
Yeah but there aren't that many mail clerk and latrine engineer positions in the army so you liberals are greatly outnumbered :)
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/391871/makes-me-wonder/80#post_3477892
I don't think anyone is trying to discredit your brother.
I believe some are calling you a liar based off the statements you have made in the past and how your defense goes in a circular motion.
Still waiting to hear how he ordered and purchased an UZI for civilian purposes..especially since the local PDs didn't have them in the 70's. Find me another wikipedia link. I won't even explain the "Gun Range" circular motion.
Where did you get "gun range circular motion"? I think I've told you 100 times.. I'VE BEEN TO A MULTIPLE NUMBER OF GUN RANGES. How many more times to I have to state that? Exactly how is that "circular logic"? Quit trying to twist words Darth. You try this "circular logic" everytime I get into an argument with you.
Which Wiki article are you referencing to gain your vast knowledge on Uzi-style weapons? Have you ever owned an FFL? Have you ever owned or operated a gun shop? I never asked him where or how he got it, BECAUSE I DIDN'T CARE! He used to collect antique and military weaponry that other collectors owned. As far as I know, he got it from one of them. IT WAS OVER 30 YERS AGO. I actually haven't spoken to my brother in over 5 years for personal reasons. So even if I wanted to find out where he obtained the multitude of weapons he used to own, just to satify your overbearing and indignent curiosity, I couldn't or won't. So ask me if I give a rats arse if you believe me or not.
How exactly
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
becareful there...you get anymore high strung and they are gonna take yourliberal card away and label you an extremist.
i didnt pull my uzi info from wiki...you did. I pulled my info from my four friends that are ffl dealers. want their business numbers so you can call and verify? I am sure the ex navy seal will enjoy educating you. even my redneck ffl friend laughed at the uzi part.
Rio rancho armory, cash firearms, scalpers armory and new mexico firearms llc.......guess which is owned by the navy seal.
when asked if you ever hadbeen to a gun range...your response was your gun range was a 2800 acre plotof land....you side stepped the question...like a good democrat...then when pressed on it gave some feeble link to a gun range you occassionally wentto.......if you had been to a gun range...why not just say so in the first place? because you honestly have not.
and youdo care...otherwise you wouldnt have responded in the manner you did...i thought i was reading an ironeagle posting for a minute.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/391871/makes-me-wonder/80#post_3477965
Where did you get "gun range circular motion"? I think I've told you 100 times.. I'VE BEEN TO A MULTIPLE NUMBER OF GUN RANGES. How many more times to I have to state that? Exactly how is that "circular logic"? Quit trying to twist words Darth. You try this "circular logic" everytime I get into an argument with you.
Which Wiki article are you referencing to gain your vast knowledge on Uzi-style weapons? Have you ever owned an FFL? Have you ever owned or operated a gun shop? I never asked him where or how he got it, BECAUSE I DIDN'T CARE! He used to collect antique and military weaponry that other collectors owned. As far as I know, he got it from one of them. IT WAS OVER 30 YERS AGO. I actually haven't spoken to my brother in over 5 years for personal reasons. So even if I wanted to find out where he obtained the multitude of weapons he used to own, just to satify your overbearing and indignent curiosity, I couldn't or won't. So ask me if I give a rats arse if you believe me or not.
How exactly
If you've been to multiple ranges then you know how ridiculous you kids popping off like Rambo remark was.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
This is what gets me. Bionic says" Obama will never take your guns". While this statement is true the EPA under Obama moves to make lead bullets illegal. What good is a gun without ammo? Mr Obama himself was recorded talking about going "under the radar" to control guns. Fast and furious looks to go to at least Holder if not Obama.
Yeah they are not taking our guns outright, but in the other hand they are doing everything they can to make bearing them as difficult as possible.
"Deeds not words."
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Now to add to the socialist argument (if one needs to). It seems Mr Obama was in the New Party ad signed their candidate pledge. Was that what he was thinking when he said he wanted to "fundamentally transform" our country.
The evidence piles up. Many stick their heads in the sand. The "free press" remains silent.
 
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