Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

[lucascoatney]

so is this better to build than your average refugium? i was planning on building one. which one should it be? also is there a rule of thumb for how long the scrubber should be? if i have a 220 gallon tank should i have a 4 foot scrubber or what?

 

[todj2002]

OK - GOT A TANK DIVIDER TODAY AND TOOK OUT PREVIOUS SCREEN. WORKS MUCH BETTER. RUBBED IT WITH SOME ALGAE THAT WAS STARTING ON SCREEN. ORDERED A 480 GPH PUMP FROM Via Aqua, A 2300. ANYBODY USE THIS MANUFACTURER? I READ SOME REVIEWS AND FOR THE COST AND ENERGY CONSUMPTION SEEM LIKE THE WAY TO GO. THIS WILL RETURN WATER FROM MY SUMP. LOOKING FOR A USED 10 OR 20 GALLON LOCALLY TO REPLACE RUBBERMAID. THEN I WILL PROLLY GET RID OF THE CANISTER FILTER. I CHANGED OUT 15 GALLONS OF WATER TODAY. I WILL CHECK LEVELS TOMORROW AND START TRACKING RESULTS WITH THE SCRUBBER NOW IN PLACE. I CANT WAIT TO SEE THE RESULTS! HOPE IT WORKS. HERE ARE PICS OF NEW SCREEN. LIGHTS ON 18 TIMER. MH ON 8 HOURS CYCLE. I THE PROCESS OF REMOVING CRUSHED CORAL FROM THE TANK. BAD ROOKIE MANUVER PUTTIN IT IN TANK. TAKE OUT A LITTE WITH EACH WATER CHANGE. I AM GOING TO JUST LEAVE LIKE ONE INCH ON THE BOTTOM AND KEEP IT MAINTAINED.

 

[santamonica]

Lucas: Page 1 has a lot of info. Check that, then post some more info about what your setup has or will have. Yes I think it's better than a fuge, if you are choosing between the two:
o Light: With a scrubber, there is very little water standing in the way of the light. Also, the light is (or should be) very close to the scrubber... 4" or less. The power of light varies with the square of the distance, so going from 8" to 4" actually gives you 4X the power, not 2X. And the nutrient removal power of algae is proportional to the power of the light, because it's the photosynthesis that is doing the processing.
o Rapid flow across the algae give more delivery of nutrients to the algae.
o Turbulence: Helps removes the boundary layer of water around the algae. This boundary layer slows the transfer of metabolites in and out of the algae.
o Pulsed Flow: The option of being able to pulse the flow (and use a fan) REALLY helps get rid of the boundary layer of water, and also helps kill the green hair and brown slime that tend to cover up real turf (although green hair and brown slime still do lots of filtering). This is how turf algae grows on the beach, with wind and waves.
o Surface Area: When you clean/scrape a screen, the surface area is not reduced like it is with fuge macros.
o Traps no waste/food like a refugium or DSB does; waste/food flows right past the screen.
o Does not release strands into display, like chaeto.
o Does not go sexual, like caulerpa can.
o Is 1/2 or 1/3 the physical size, for the same processing power.
o Weighs nothing (holds no water), so it can be set on regular furniture.
o Cools the water. And if a fan is used, it REALLY cools the water.
o Does not ever produce hydrogen sulfide (rotten eggs), like DSBs or denitrators can.
o Can be set on top of the tank, so pods drain right into tank.
o Is free.
o Is portable.
o Can run two, for backup or double power, in the same space as one fuge.
o Will oxygenate the tank if main return pump goes out (if the scrubber drains into the display.)

 

[santamonica]

Todj we are rootin' for ya. Just keep the bulb pointed at the center of the screen, and run as much flow as possible without spraying sideways.

 

[santamonica]

.
This is a big Success Of The Day: "zennzzo" on the MFK site has the first freshwater scrubber success story of any thread, and he did it with a solar powered scrubber! Has has an outdoor inflatable pond that went from this:

To this...

... and it's still improving. He's in Southern California, and here are the pertinent parts of his build:
10/10: Subscribed for sure. I'm going to try this oustside in the sunlight...I would think there is enough light?
10/12: I am building one right now with plexi sheet. Started with a 1/8th sheet of clear plexi. 32" x 15" = 480 sq. inches. (good for a 650gal huh?) I sanded the plexi sheet with 40 grit in a cross-hatch pattern. Did the frame with 3/4" PVC pipe and couplings. I cut the slots with a table saw for the water to flow and used zip ties to keep it in place. A 1/2" hose barb for the water inlet on a "T". I'm building the stand so it will set in a small rubbermaid tote. I'll run a submersible pump with prefilter via hose to the 1/2" hose barb, then I will plumb an overflow, 1" gravity fed, a few inches off the bottom of the tote, back to the pond. These are pics of what I have so far...

10/13: [Realized he needed screen and not plexi] Plastic Needlepoint canvas...piece of cake, WalMart carries that. Does the holes per inch matter?, because the thicker it is, the larger the holes are. [Answer: Not really]
10/15: [Will be in] direct sunlight aprox 7 hrs. AM sun on one side and PM sun on the other... southern exposure.
10/16: "sunshine on my scrub-ber, makes me hap-py" **

 

[santamonica]

After rubbing what green Algae I could scrape up, into the mesh like a caveman, the water is now running full width, and it looks slimey(?) shiney. [Flow is] 400-450 I would have to estimate, possibly more. I used a table saw with a carbide tipped blade for the slot and cross-cuts...Make [the pipe] longer than you need so you have something to hang onto while you are sawing the slot. The cross cuts are 1" apart and the blade height was set at 1/4" for the 3/4" - sch 20 PVC pipe.
I am chalking the ground to see if there is better exposure time about 80-90 degrees counter clockwise.
10/22: Woooot! OK we have what looks like the start of something very interesting. Here's the thing... it's down at the bottom where it gets the least amount of direct sunlight...??

The canvas was seeded with what I could, and then rinsed thoroughly. That's something you said in the thread. There was no visable green on that canvas [when started].
10/26: 10 days out, no foil, no mirriors, just good ol sunlight. I did move the tub 45 degrees counter clockwise to pick up more direct sun...

There are 4 medium KOI in there, and it's cycled. Just recently, 2-3 days ago? Algae took off in the pond almost over night.
10/30: day 15, pure solar power. this is what she looks like now...

I didn't see anything for a week, and then it started as a little bloom on just one square. After seeing where the growth pattern is, I would have used some 10 grit carbide paper on the plastic...the rougher the surface the easier the initial the spores can attach. The top where the plastic canvas goes into the spraybar, got scratched the most from fitting and re-fitting the screen...it has thick green algae on it and it is shaded alot of the time. So in summary, go as rough as possible on the prep...I say. See the high spots of the grid? I wish I would have sanded the crap out of it with bigger grit. I'm still getting good flow across the canvas anyhow.
11/1: same position 17 days from virgin screen. Seems the last 48 hours has been a bit overcast and the screen looks fuller...anybody else think so?...

 

[santamonica]

11/4: here ya go, 20 days out. funny thing is it's been overcast and it rained a couple of days...

11/6: 21 days out, and now it is filling in with dark slimey looking stuff. And here is side view of the frame...

11/9: 25 days out... The algae [in the pond] is receding. 3 days ago [the pond] was totally covered. Like Magic it is disappearing. And this pond is in direct sunlight too...

 

[santamonica]

.
11/10: will see if the algae grows thick now...it is filling in real good. Here are some shots of some super clear water...It has always been decent, but since the algae has been disappearing from in the pond, it is getting noticeably crystal like...the fish, at the same temp seem to be more active as well...

11/11: the bottom [originally] looked like the dark green you see here, but all the way across, no clean areas at all. You can see the algae is receding in the pattern of the current...

11/12: 28 days from bare screen; indirect sun for all of the daylight hours, and 4 solid direct sun hours...

It's a relatively inexpensive project for the results you can produce. If you are anything like me, no matter what others are getting, I had to see for myself, first hand. I have less than 20.00 invested, but I use the Sun and a gravity return. The concept is basic, add your twist to it and see what you come up with...it just might be better than the others.
.
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[lucascoatney]

hey i was looking at the beginning of the thread to see how long to make my filter and I was just wondering but why doesnt height matter?

 

[hefner413]

what matters is surface area of the scrubber. you can have one tall/skinny or wide/short and still have the same surface area and the same effect.

 

[sly]

It's been awhile since I posted and so I figured it was time for an update...
I've had my scrubber running since September. When I started my phosphates were 8-10 ppm or maybe higher. The test water turned a very dark blue indicating high phosphates. Today I did a test and can verify that my phosphates are now between 2 and 4 ppm. I am still getting massive growth in the scrubber.. So far the nitrates have reduced some, but not much... maybe by 5 ppm. I am seeing the greatest reduction in phosphate so far. Maybe the nitrate will start going down some more as the phosphate gets consumed completely.
Some background. Tank has been running for 7 years. Using RO/DI water, ozone, refugium with macros, UV sterilization, skimmer and scrubber. I don't really do water changes. The last one I did was sometime in 2007. I have had high phosphates for quite awhile and nitrates have been higher than I wanted but still manageable. My fish and corals are still growing and thriving...
I have never seen anything that would reduce the phosphate in my tank. Even water changes only lowered them momentarily. They would go back up in just a few days. This is the first time I've ever seen a reduction in phosphates. I suspect that in another month they may well be at 0ppm.
Nitrate reduction still remains to be seen. Overall though, I think the scrubber was a positive addition to my tank. I'm finally starting to get some more corraline growth like I used to have. The growth is slow but I do see a definite increase in the vibrance and quantity of corraline in my tank.

 

[santamonica]

Lucas: Hef is correct... the square inches of the screen matter most. The width of the screen, however, controls how much gph is needed to fill the screen.
Sly it's cool that your P has come down. I too had a sticky N reading; seemed to not want to drop below 1 ppm for a few weeks. Turned out to be the pre-filter sponge in the pump that runs the scrubber. With a skimmerless tank, I have a lot of food in the water, and the foam was catching it and causing it to rot into N. I took the foam out and the next day the N was back down to zero.

 

[sly]

Ok, I removed the foam pre-filter block from my wet/dry... I really don't want to run a wet/dry without a pre-filter but I'll try it for a few days and see if there is a difference in nitrate. If it doesn't change then I may take out my bio-media and rinse it off and see if that helps.

 

[santamonica]

Yea you may not need the bio media at all. It just makes N, traps food and makes even more N (and P), and takes away ammonia that could be feeding your scrubber.

 

[loogielv]

i'm going to read through this thread at length after work, but I have a question. You breezed over the freshwater part really quick. Can you explain how this setup would/should work in a freshwater environment? what would it "replace" and how should it be maintained?
is it the same type of algae as what would grow in a SW setup? i dont see how thats possible, but i'm beyond new at this stuff....either way thank you so much for the learning opportunity!

 

[santamonica]

FW is the same. It's just that this was the first successful FW scrubber that was posted. Still reduces nitrate and phosphate and nuisance algae just like with SW. Not shure what it replaces in FW though... I have not studied FW.

 

[santamonica]

Well I thought more folks would want to be a scrubber builder, but so far only one person signed up to be in the directory that Worley set up:
http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/...c.php?f=9&t=25
But at least those who want scrubbers (but don't have the time or ability to build one) can now have it done for them.

 

[todj2002]

OK - CHANGED OUT 15 GALLONS ON WED. TOOK A FEW READINGS TONIGHT AND HERE THEY ARE. P IS AT ABOUT 1PPM. N IS ABOUT 10 TO 20 PPM. (THATS GOOD FOR ME LOL) I CAN NOT BELIEVE THAT THIS COULD BE WORKING ALREADY BUT THESE ARE BETTER NUMBERS THAN I USUALLY GET. I HAVE A BAD TIME WIHT N SINCE I AM BUSY AND A SLACKER. HERE ARE SOME PICS OF THE ALGAE GROWTH SINCE WED. I HAVE NEW PUMP THAT WILL BE HERE MON. SO I CAN GET MORE FLOW OVER THE SCRUBBER. I WILL CONTINUE TO POST RESULTS SO WE CAN ALL SEE MY RESULTS.

 

[santamonica]

Yes it looks like it's only flowing down the center, so the new pump should help. Also try to get the bulbs down as near as possible to the screen.

 

[todj2002]

Originally Posted by SantaMonica
http:///forum/post/2840469
Yes it looks like it's only flowing down the center, so the new pump should help. Also try to get the bulbs down as near as possible to the screen.
yeah i got a ten gallon tank for the scrubber today so i can get the lights aimed at it better and also put my skimmer down there. i am stoked to get return pump so i can open the flow to get water over skimmer better.