Obama and Oprah...

[m0nk]

Honestly, debating "facts" is pointless, both sides have "facts" to back up their opinions, and that's really what it comes down to; opinions. This is why I stay away from these debates, because nothing I say is going to change the way someone else feels about their "side", and nothing anyone else says is going to change the way I feel. This thread is going nowhere fast, as do all political arguments, and the entire second page of this thread is an example of that.

All these things do is strain relations between well meaning people on both sides of an imaginary line. I'll vote for who I like and so will everyone else here, and whatever happens, happens. Someone will win and someone won't be happy with the results, but this is what makes America, we have the freedom to dislike the people in public office.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
The dollar and the global market was cyclical long before Reaganomics.
Ryan, how do you propose we "work" with Al Qaeda? They attacked us SEVEN times under Clinton... They believe as Americans we do NOT have a right to live. They want to convert the world to radical Islam, by the sword...
Our Foreign Policy is the most giving and humanitarian policy the world has ever seen. Not to mention the hundreds of millions Americans give to charities working overseas.
Of course we can compare WW2 to the present. Evil is evil, and appeasement never works. Two lessons the Dems need to learn eventually.
You're dodging the issues though. You started off saying Obama was for the "morals and values" our country was founded on. The truth is, he is a socialist, and that is far from what our country was founded on and farther still from what has made our country great.
I haven't decided who I am supporting yet. Rest assured, it won't be a socialist or a Non-interventionalist candidate, however.
We can not compare w2 and the terrorist we face today. Its this thinking that has us in our current position. I'm not saying that he should meet with Al Qaeda... but we could end the support and their recruitment without a war. And yes evil is evil, but the reason why they fight and why they are our enemies is different which calls for a different approach. ie A fire is a fire but, you can't fight a grease fire with water. - hope you understand my analogy. Our foreign policy is not doing enough... but you can vote for whomever you want. This thread and nothing you hear from a dem or Obama probably won't change your view.

 

[triga22]

This is something funny that I would like to post. This is about Hitlary but I think it should make people laugh.
In Georiga we have this thing in the paper called the vent. There people write in stuff and its usually funny.
"If hilary becomes president im moving to Austrailia"
Next person says "If Hilary becomes president even Austraila wont be safe"
"Being a presidents wife dosent give you experience to be president"
"People thing the war is about oil, look at the prices!"
"If you vote for Hilary less people will move to cherokee county (cherokee has a huge population and growing), why cause they will ov moved to austraila.
Thought these were kinda funny.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
Who cares.. we should all care! If we are going to be a world leader... perception is very important. This is now a world economy. We live in a much smaller world. Wouldn't you want to go anywhere in the world without fearing for your life. Our worry about additional terror acts. I think we have a duty as a prosperous nation to reach out to the world to make it a better place. And this is not about redistributing wealth. If you are in the top 1% of earners.. why do you need a tax break. A tax break should be given to those who's lives it would make a greater impact on. But the loss in value of the dollar is an indication of a decreasing economy.
I'll ask the question to you as well, who do you support and why?
WE are a world economy but you moan about jobs going overseas? So how are we not a better place, lybia has denouced nukes? Lybia is now recieving our financial aid. We haven't been attacked here. Iraq is pretty mellow they are getting their government together. It isn't bad, why do you think you haven't heard anything about these places lately?
See this is about the redistribution of wealth, every single "promise" obama Clinton, Edwards make is taking money away from the people who have earned it. A vote for these people is a vote to redistribution of wealth. Their "change" is to go back to the carter years and 70% Income taxes.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
but we could end the support and their recruitment without a war. And yes evil is evil, but the reason why they fight and why they are our enemies is different which calls for a different approach. ie A fire is a fire but, you can't fight a grease fire with water. - hope you understand my analogy.
We tried that during the clinton years, didn't really work,
You know you can fight fire with fire too. Sucks all the air out and kills the fire.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by TriGa22
When I watched some of Osama's speech last night I was laughing.
He wants to give "everyone" healthcare. Is healcare free? NO. So where do you think that he gets the money from? The "rich people". So then he takes more money from them and decides to give it to the "poor" people so that they can have healthcare. To me that dosent sound right. Why becuase most, yes most people that are poor chose to be that way by making bad decisions, like not getting an education. When the "rich" people got an education and worked their butts off to get a job and make money so that they can give more away so that the slackers can have healthcare,so that the drug dealin thuggs can have welfare. NO NO NO
Another thing he said is that its for "EVERYONE" no just US citizens, so that mabye the Illegals could have just as many rights cause that sounds great.
And then I was listening to Neil Bortz and he was talking to this lady that went for (I cant remember the name its for the couples that had a kid and they go there for bottles, and other baby stuff), anyways she went there to apply for it and said it was the easiest thing to get no-one was turned down including illegals. Thats pathetic. Same with a girl that was paying out of state tuition and found that the illegals living out of state were paying in state tuition. But thankfully someone had the smarts to change that.
Are you serious? There are many people who have college educations, yet they can not afford healthcare. There are people who have worked at a company for 30 years, yet they have insufficient healthcare. You have retired people who can't afford prescriptions and insurance. You could have a guy who is supporting his family but gets laid off... and can't afford an emergency visit to the ER. An education doesn't make you rich and not all rich people have a college education or diploma. But if anyone lays dying in a hospital waiting room because they don't have insurance is wrong in my opinion. His speech was the best speech I've heard in awhile. Either you are privledged or very young, and you don't know how the world works.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
We tried that during the clinton years, didn't really work,
You know you can fight fire with fire too. Sucks all the air out and kills the fire.
you get my point

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
Are you serious? There are many people who have college educations, yet they can not afford healthcare.
Funny they can afford a house, car. Priorities...

 

[triga22]

Ok, WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM? It dosent fall of trees, does it?

 

[triga22]

If you squandered every opportunity for an education to end up an unemployable semi-literate loser, that's your problem, not mine. If you've destroyed your health with cigarettes and fast food ... then by what right do you demand that people who lived their lives more responsibly than you cover the cost of your medical care. You cry about your "right" to health care. You dare to claim a right to the services of another human being to correct problems you created for yourself? Further, if it is more important for you to spend your money on a cell phone, flat-screen televisions, the best new car, meals at expensive restaurants and fancy vacations than it is to spend your money on a health insurance policy .. then you should be on your own. Don't beg the government to steal from someone else so that you don't have to change your lifestyle. - Neal Boortz

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
WE are a world economy but you moan about jobs going overseas? So how are we not a better place, lybia has denouced nukes? Lybia is now recieving our financial aid. We haven't been attacked here. Iraq is pretty mellow they are getting their government together. It isn't bad, why do you think you haven't heard anything about these places lately?
See this is about the redistribution of wealth, every single "promise" obama Clinton, Edwards make is taking money away from the people who have earned it. A vote for these people is a vote to redistribution of wealth. Their "change" is to go back to the carter years and 70% Income taxes.
If they can afford nukes... do they need foreign aid? Iraq..mellow? Haven't heard much about Iraq lately... I'm sure there is a reason why..media! But as far as their government... give me a break... did you see what happened to Bhutto. She was probably assinated because she was going to expose Pakistan and how they are merely putting on a show for us. We need to be in Africa right now... and many people will say its a lost cause or we gave money...etc... yet we can go to Serbia where the same thing happened. But as far taxes go... I don't think changes Obama (Dems) would make would be as drastic as you may think. I think you have a fear or incertainty which leads you to feel the way you do. But we all earn or money regardless of what we do or how much of it we have. But we have serious problems and continuing the course as you all suggest would not be for the best IMO.

 

[triga22]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
Haven't heard much about Iraq lately... I'm sure there is a reason why..media!.
Exactly why would the media want to talk about the good things happening in Iraq. They just want to make the war sound like a crappy place.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
Funny they can afford a house, car. Priorities...
you guys make alot of assumptions. And a place to live is more of a priority than wondering whether or not you will get sick. Have you all seen the costs of insurance like Cobra? It's not a tough decision if you have to question whether you'll be able to put food on the table or heat your home. It seems to me that some of you are a little out of touch with some of the problems we face as a nation. Have you all seen the "Pursuit of Happieness" great story of making something out of yourself from nothing and despite all odds. But what if his son got sick and was diagnosed with leukemia or something... do you think the story would be the same? Or what about the movie with Denzel Washington and his fight with the insurance co about them not covering his son for a heart transplant... these are all stories that happen all the time. Insurance and healthcare are big buisness that many Americans cannot afford.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
If they can afford nukes... do they need foreign aid? Iraq..mellow? Haven't heard much about Iraq lately... I'm sure there is a reason why..media! But as far as their government... give me a break... did you see what happened to Bhutto. She was probably assinated because she was going to expose Pakistan and how they are merely putting on a show for us. We need to be in Africa right now... and many people will say its a lost cause or we gave money...etc... yet we can go to Serbia where the same thing happened. But as far taxes go... I don't think changes Obama (Dems) would make would be as drastic as you may think. I think you have a fear or incertainty which leads you to feel the way you do. But we all earn or money regardless of what we do or how much of it we have. But we have serious problems and continuing the course as you all suggest would not be for the best IMO.
I agree, I wouldn't dump another dime into africa, it is a waste. There is a proven track record. It is like giving a wino a 5. LOL a fear of uncertainty. There is not uncertainty voting democratic. If they get their way they are going to push this country as close to socialism as they can. I believe we need to change, we need to stop letting the government waste my money on government government programs. We need change this heavily regressive tax system. I need to be able to be able to keep more than 66% of my income.

 

[triga22]

Please go here and read up on whats right
http://boortz.com/nuze/200801/01022008.html

 

[triga22]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
I agree, I wouldn't dump another dime into africa, it is a waste. There is a proven track record. It is like giving a wino a 5. LOL a fear of uncertainty. There is not uncertainty voting democratic. If they get their way they are going to push this country as close to socialism as they can. I believe we need to change, we need to stop letting the government waste my money on government government programs. We need change this heavily regressive tax system. I need to be able to be able to keep more than 66% of my income.
Its good that someone agrees with me.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by TriGa22
Exactly why would the media want to talk about the good things happening in Iraq. They just want to make the war sound like a crappy place.
I've spoken with soilders who were deployed there... it is a crappy place, and many of the things go unreported. But these primaries are playing a role, which is why they are not talking about it. Same as why gas prices went down at thanksgiving and christmas... then shot up... its political. You have no idea of whats going on in Iraq... we have been mislead by those invloved of what is going on. Do honestly beleive all the reports from Iraq...especially everything that we've learned after the fact?

 

[triga22]

Thats weird because I to have spoke with soldiers. On that lives a few strees over and I have known him since I was born. Its weird that he said places that 6 months ago you couldnt go and now these places are bases for troops. Troops were on a local talk show and one went into tears becuase of no support most troops want to be there and fight the war. But yea your right the war is horrible, and we should pull out becuase obviously the troops dont want to be there.

 

[stdreb27]

What is impressive is that he is the first black man to win in a presidential primary election. That I can think of.
I could argue, I've spoken with my force recon marine cousin, or my apache driver, and they wholeheartedly believe in what they were doing in Iraq. These are guys on the "front line." And very intellegent people who chose the military vs other lucrative professions.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
But we have serious problems and continuing the course as you all suggest would not be for the best IMO.

Are you kidding me? Serious problems are the civil war and the great depression. Please stop the doom and gloom and how things suck so bad and this country is heading towards disaster. The fact is, this country is fine. sure we have some problems and small issues, but to categorize them as serious and "must deal with" is ridiculous.
Has YOUR quality of life gone down at all in the last 8 years?
as far as Butto goes, She openly stated she was going after Bin Laden, then she was killed....think about it.