Obama and Oprah...

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
...
Every democrat that I have heard (with the exception of Hilary) has said they will pull our troops out of Iraq. ....
Actually Hillary said last night she would begin withdrawing troops, unless I dreamed it.

 

[stdreb27]

"change" and "experience" are empty words used to fool the masses.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Actually Hillary said last night she would begin withdrawing troops, unless I dreamed it.
She has said so much.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
She has said so much.
And yet so little I agree with....

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
That needs further discussion...
Lost values and morals? You think Obama and the Democratic party have the values and morals that our country was founded on? If so I respectfully ask you step away from the Cool Aid

Our position in the world has changed. Terrorists attacked us 7 times during Clinton's watch. They attacked us once during the current Admin.... Korea secretly built nukes in the 90's, the Taliban grew in power in the 90's, Pakistan had a military coup in the 90's, etc. Indeed our position in the world has changed. After 8 years of letting the world push us around we stepped up and said "Enough". And don't give me the "all the world hates us" rhetoric either. Foreign investors are buying vacation homes in the USA in record numbers. France and Germany both recently elected Pro-American leaders, etc.
Our economy definitely changed. EVERY American is paying less taxes per dollar, and the federal tax revenue is at an all time high.
Foreign investors are also changing there reserves and investments from the US Dollar. Our money is fickle right now and I would do the same if I were a foreign goverment. I think the world is tired of us pushing them around which is why they have boosted their military and weapons. But this is more than just about terrorism and living in fear. I have no doubt that any president that we would choose would forsake our safety. I believe that Obama would actively combat terrorism, but violence against violence is not the only solution and if we continue down that path, we only renew the cycle of producing more terrorist. Obama seems to have been the only one that talked about what are country was founded on in his speech. Our tax dollars could be used more effectively, and our tax structure needs to change. Its clear the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. This election to me is about our United States and the problems we face domestically. Its about changing the page to a new era. I believe that Obama would not only be better for the country, but also I think he would be better recepted by the world in large as a respected leader and not simply a politician or a privledged arrogant American.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Ok, let's go with this.
Which values has this country lost?
What was our position before and how has it changed?
What morals have changed?
Just so I can get an understanding of what you believe obama would correct. To be honest I don't see a single democrat that preaches values. atleast not true values but hollow ones.
Every democrat that I have heard (with the exception of Hilary) has said they will pull our troops out of Iraq. Now that the surge has worked and violence is way down, that country is on it's way to stabilization is this smart? Afghanistan violence is going up a bit, would they move the troops there? I have heard very little talk about Afghanistan from the democrats, yet this seems to be ever democrats gripe that we stopped looking for Osama in Afghanistan and went to Iraq. Yet this is not a focal poit for the democratic party. Sorry Terrorism is real and is an issue, but nothing from that side of the aisle deals with this from what I have heard.
I believe the belief in the government has changed since Reagan....so I have to agree with you there.
What has Obama said that makes you think the values of america will be restored?
All I have heard is pull the troops out and raise taxes. Oh and alternate fuel sources.....The guy can speak though and doesn't make me cringe when he does like hilary does.
Guatonimo Bay (spelling

). But Obama talks all the time about values and moral authority... We currently have none based on what the Bush admin has done in office. And I believe that Regan policies were not all good and some aspects of his presidency often go overlooked and caused some of the problems we face now.
Obama talked about unity, ending dependency on oil, science and research, taxes breaks for middle class and ending some for rich "who don't need help"
We are a greedy nation filled with corrpution. What has happened to the CIA torture documents? The Foreclosure issues, our shipping jobs across the ocean. Americans loosing jobs by the 1000's. Healthcare. Education. Foreign policy. Lack of foreign aid. We could do more with the trillions we are spending in Iraq by spending a billion on foreign aid. Basically I feel we are compounding issues instead of providing long-term solutions. Also look at are Defecit... we probably need to either pay more taxes or get out of a war that seems to be going no where.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
She has said so much.

I listened to Huckabee, Romney, Edwards, Clinton, and Obama's speech..
Who do you think had the best speech?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
... I believe that Obama would not only be better for the country, but also I think he would be better recepted by the world in large as a respected leader and not simply a politician or a privledged arrogant American.
The global market is cyclical. The dollar was valued "lower" during the 80's. It will rise again, as it always does.
How do we "push the world around"? Actually, the opposite of what you say is true. Many of our allies spend less for their militaries because they know we are covering for them. Russia and China are gearing up their war machines for political reasons (Russia is moving towards expansionism again and China wants to be a world power)
Obama would combat terrorism by bombing Pakistan...
Violence, is in fact the only answer sometimes. You can't reason with lunatics or zealots when they are convinced you are the "Great Satan". Did we produce more Japanese soldiers when we fought them in the Pacific? Did we produce more Nazi's when we wiped out Hitler?
What exactly do you think our country was founded on? How do Obama's positions actually compare to our founding father's in relation to:
*"Family" values
*Work ethic
*Limited government
*Capitalism
*Strong defense
Talk to Edwards about the poor getting poorer.... Talk to Oprah about the poor getting poorer. The truth is America still offers the greatest opportunity to rise up economically. That is, until the Dems implement socialism...
Here are some tax numbers for you...
The top 5% of wage earners in the US pay over 50% of the Federal Tax...
You want the "rich" to pay more?
"Change", "New Era", etc. are synonyms for "I have no political platform or experience..."

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
Foreign investors are also changing there reserves and investments from the US Dollar. Our money is fickle right now and I would do the same if I were a foreign goverment. I think the world is tired of us pushing them around which is why they have boosted their military and weapons. But this is more than just about terrorism and living in fear. I have no doubt that any president that we would choose would forsake our safety. I believe that Obama would actively combat terrorism, but violence against violence is not the only solution and if we continue down that path, we only renew the cycle of producing more terrorist. Obama seems to have been the only one that talked about what are country was founded on in his speech. Our tax dollars could be used more effectively, and our tax structure needs to change. Its clear the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. This election to me is about our United States and the problems we face domestically. Its about changing the page to a new era. I believe that Obama would not only be better for the country, but also I think he would be better recepted by the world in large as a respected leader and not simply a politician or a privledged arrogant American.
I guess different people have different values. But who cares what "the world" thinks of us? we have the longest standing government in the world. We have a system that has proven to work. Why would we try to change to appease countries mired in their own social and economic problems? Our unemployment is still only 5% most of europe is still over 10%. Some argue oh america is failing because of the falling "value" of the American dollar. It is ignorant to say that this indicates failure of our economy or that it is nessasarily a bad thing.
This common perception bemoaning the rich is getting rich and the poor poorer. But we must ask ourselves, how does the distribution of weath fall under the governents purvey? The rich haven't made their money riding the backs of the poor. And the only thing keeping the poor down is their own spirit. Historic attempts to re-distribute wealth have crippled nations and destroyed nations. Look at Russia, China, (before it began including capitalism into its economies) Cuba, France about 3 times. Why should we punish the people who have successfully used our system and employee millions of people working their way to the top?
Not all change is good...
My problem with all the Dem candidates, Clinton, Obama, Edwards, is that they have ignored these lessons of history and don't see the impending doom of their socialist agendas. Besides you can't really think that they are only going to tax the "rich" can you?
We will all doomed when politicians discover they can bribe the people with the peoples own money...

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
Guatonimo Bay (spelling

). But Obama talks all the time about values and moral authority...
Talk is cheap...

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
Guatonimo Bay (spelling

). But Obama talks all the time about values and moral authority... We currently have none based on what the Bush admin has done in office. And I believe that Regan policies were not all good and some aspects of his presidency often go overlooked and caused some of the problems we face now.
Obama talked about unity, ending dependency on oil, science and research, taxes breaks for middle class and ending some for rich "who don't need help"
We are a greedy nation filled with corrpution. What has happened to the CIA torture documents? The Foreclosure issues, our shipping jobs across the ocean. Americans loosing jobs by the 1000's. Healthcare. Education. Foreign policy. Lack of foreign aid. We could do more with the trillions we are spending in Iraq by spending a billion on foreign aid. Basically I feel we are compounding issues instead of providing long-term solutions. Also look at are Defecit... we probably need to either pay more taxes or get out of a war that seems to be going no where.
do you know a single American citizen being held at Guantonimo Bay? Despite the popular belief to the contrary, foreign combatants do not have ANY Constitutional Rights.
Values and moral authority? See my above post. What are Obama's morals and values exactly?
We can all talk about "energy independence"...
Home forclosures are due 100% to people buying houses they couldn't afford. How is that the government's fault? When new home purchases are at an all time high of course forclosures will also be at an all time high.
By all means, tax the rich more... why not confiscate their bank accounts and redistribute their wealth. But let's not stop there. Let's have the government take over all private businesses, farms, schools, media, etc...
We have the greatest, or at least one of the greatest healthcare systems in the world. Who do you think will pay for a "free" healthcare system? Have you ever dealt with Medicare or Medicade before? Imagine that nightmare and cost tenfold...
Lack of foreign aid? The fact that you can say that astounds me. As for Iraq, many of us would argue liberating 27 million people from a cruel and sadistic dictator was the epitome of "foreign" aid.
I agree the defecit needs to be addressed. Of course, promising free health care, higher taxes (which historically has been shown to lower revenue) and expanding government involvment in business will make the defecit worse, not better. What we need to do is hold Nancy Pelosi to her word and eliminate "pork barrel projects".

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
The global market is cyclical. The dollar was valued "lower" during the 80's. It will rise again, as it always does.
How do we "push the world around"? Actually, the opposite of what you say is true. Many of our allies spend less for their militaries because they know we are covering for them. Russia and China are gearing up their war machines for political reasons (Russia is moving towards expansionism again and China wants to be a world power)
Obama would combat terrorism by bombing Pakistan...
Violence, is in fact the only answer sometimes. You can't reason with lunatics or zealots when they are convinced you are the "Great Satan". Did we produce more Japanese soldiers when we fought them in the Pacific? Did we produce more Nazi's when we wiped out Hitler?
What exactly do you think our country was founded on? How do Obama's positions actually compare to our founding father's in relation to:
*"Family" values
*Work ethic
*Limited government
*Capitalism
*Strong defense
Talk to Edwards about the poor getting poorer.... Talk to Oprah about the poor getting poorer. The truth is America still offers the greatest opportunity to rise up economically. That is, until the Dems implement socialism...
Here are some tax numbers for you...
The top 5% of wage earners in the US pay over 50% of the Federal Tax...
You want the "rich" to pay more?
"Change", "New Era", etc. are synonyms for "I have no political platform or experience..."
Completely disagree... did regannomics have anything to do with the dollar?
How do you know we can't work with these people if we have never tired. Our Foreign policy is arrogant and abusive...
But we can't compare WWII to the problems we face today... new problems need new solutions.. and it is obvious are policies of yesterday are failing.
And who can we cover now? Our military is depleted right now. And we are not dealing with a conventional army who is defending a country or state. We are fighting people on a moral and political view. We can not just bomb or invade somebody everytime we have a dispute... we need to work with people and like other personal or work relationships ...violence rarely ever works.
Let me ask you who you are supporting and why?
This is less about political ties for me... I don't care about big or small gov't I care about better lives and fixing the problems we face as a nation. I think we get to wrapped up on small issues and minor differences.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
...We will all doomed when politicians discover they can bribe the people with the peoples own money...
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury...

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
...
Let me ask you who you are supporting and why?
This is less about political ties for me... I don't care about big or small gov't I care about better lives and fixing the problems we face as a nation. I think we get to wrapped up on small issues and minor differences.
The dollar and the global market was cyclical long before Reaganomics.
Ryan, how do you propose we "work" with Al Qaeda? They attacked us SEVEN times under Clinton... They believe as Americans we do NOT have a right to live. They want to convert the world to radical Islam, by the sword...
Our Foreign Policy is the most giving and humanitarian policy the world has ever seen. Not to mention the hundreds of millions Americans give to charities working overseas.
Of course we can compare WW2 to the present. Evil is evil, and appeasement never works. Two lessons the Dems need to learn eventually.
You're dodging the issues though. You started off saying Obama was for the "morals and values" our country was founded on. The truth is, he is a socialist, and that is far from what our country was founded on and farther still from what has made our country great.
I haven't decided who I am supporting yet. Rest assured, it won't be a socialist or a Non-interventionalist candidate, however.

 

[darthtang aw]

To further expand on the rich get richer and the poor get poorer aspect. This line is brought about because the discrepancy between the bottom clas and those in the top class. What you don't hear in this line is the reasons behind it. ALOT of middle class families have moved them out of middle class and into upper class brackets through hard work. They have two income earners working hard to do this. While the "poor" typically only have one income earner and 50% of that do not work full time year round.
Also factor in many of the erderly now days are classified as poor due to their set income now. Yet what you don't factor in or realize is most of their housing is paid off. Their vehicles are paid off. Their expenses are down as they no longer drive to work, and live very full and enjoyable lives. But the "poor" supportters would have you believe they are poor.
Obama says he wants to bring values back to the white house and this country...but never expands on this much, other than more social programs. This countries core value is not social programs and aid. This country was founded on a do-it-yourself attitude. Sure smaller communities helped each other out...but the federal government didn't unless it was a time of crisis. Basically you could come here, work hard, and EARN a better life. Now we want to give it away or the democratic party would have us do so. Where is the sense of accomplishment anymore in this country?
Obama says he will go a different route other than violence with the terrorists...Yet Osamma and his cohorts have repeatedly stated they want the U.S.'s destruction and their will be no diplomatic solution till this occurs...so How does he propose (or you for that matter) THAT WE USE A DIFFERENT SOLUTION WHEN THE OITHER SIDE WON'T ENGAGE US DIPLOMATICLY. Factor in the "rest of the world" (Iraq, pakistan, and N. Korea) were still expanding their military options when Clinton was President as well....And that was during a time when the left claims we were "respected and honored".....give me a beak. How is it no one remembers the past and seems to think things going on today weren't going on before and somehow the U.S. is to blame for it.
Here is a story about Reagan while he was Governor of California. A group of hippies kids were protesting in california and some of them made their way to the govenor's building. They tried to barge their way in to speak to Reagan. Security wouldn't let them through, but Reagan let them in.
The started yelling at him How he doesn't understand the world today and how things have changed and so on and so forth. The continued by saying when you were born, there wasn't airplanes, ars, TV,s Dishwashers, and so on and so forth.......
His response...Yes, you are correct, we didn't have those things when I was born........My generation invented and built them for YOU.
The point, this just shows the type of self entitlement/ don't understand my plight mentallity used by the democratic party today.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
I guess different people have different values. But who cares what "the world" thinks of us? we have the longest standing government in the world. We have a system that has proven to work. Why would we try to change to appease countries mired in their own social and economic problems? Our unemployment is still only 5% most of europe is still over 10%. Some argue oh america is failing because of the falling "value" of the American dollar. It is ignorant to say that this indicates failure of our economy or that it is nessasarily a bad thing.
This common perception bemoaning the rich is getting rich and the poor poorer. But we must ask ourselves, how does the distribution of weath fall under the governents purvey? The rich haven't made their money riding the backs of the poor. And the only thing keeping the poor down is their own spirit. Historic attempts to re-distribute wealth have crippled nations and destroyed nations. Look at Russia, China, (before it began including capitalism into its economies) Cuba, France about 3 times. Why should we punish the people who have successfully used our system and employee millions of people working their way to the top?
Not all change is good...
My problem with all the Dem candidates, Clinton, Obama, Edwards, is that they have ignored these lessons of history and don't see the impending doom of their socialist agendas. Besides you can't really think that they are only going to tax the "rich" can you?
We will all doomed when politicians discover they can bribe the people with the peoples own money...
Who cares.. we should all care! If we are going to be a world leader... perception is very important. This is now a world economy. We live in a much smaller world. Wouldn't you want to go anywhere in the world without fearing for your life. Our worry about additional terror acts. I think we have a duty as a prosperous nation to reach out to the world to make it a better place. And this is not about redistributing wealth. If you are in the top 1% of earners.. why do you need a tax break. A tax break should be given to those who's lives it would make a greater impact on. But the loss in value of the dollar is an indication of a decreasing economy.
I'll ask the question to you as well, who do you support and why?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
The Foreclosure issues,
Don't buy a house you can't pay for. It isn't a failure of Government. But just a handful of stupid people buying houses they couldn't afford. Have to keep up with the Jones.
Originally Posted by Rylan1
our shipping jobs across the ocean. ,
umm, unemployment is still under 5% . and that is lower than what was thought to be sustainable unemployment 20 years ago when dems ran everything.
Originally Posted by Rylan1
Americans loosing jobs by the 1000's. ,
5%
Originally Posted by Rylan1
Lack of foreign aid. ,
60 billion dollars a year is nothing to sneeze at. And the rest of the world still sucks.
Originally Posted by Rylan1
We could do more with the trillions we are spending in Iraq by spending a billion on foreign aid. ,
How is removing a man who waged biological war on his own people, committed genoside not "humanitarian aid?" Because Bush did it?
Originally Posted by Rylan1
Basically I feel we are compounding issues instead of providing long-term solutions. .
So giving away money, like the 2.6 billion since '05 in Sudan is a long term solution? While building what we hope will be a self sufficient nation like iraq isn't?
Originally Posted by Rylan1
Also look at are Defecit... we probably need to either pay more taxes or get out of a war that seems to be going no where.
You know what is funny, with our lower taxes the Federal Government is reaping high actual dollars than ever before. You can look back at numbers in the last 35 to 40 years the higher the % tax rate was the lower the $ of actual money coming in and vise versa.
Your right something needs to change, we need to stop waisting money on places like sudan where we might as well be burning our money. We need to stop spending so much domestically, and let the people spend their own money doing the things the government aught not have their fingers in anyway.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
Completely disagree... did regannomics have anything to do with the dollar?
How do you know we can't work with these people if we have never tired. Our Foreign policy is arrogant and abusive...
.
Never tried, what do you think we did from the great depression till Regan? and during clinton? These same flawed "change" that hasn't worked. As long as we have been waging a "war on poverty" there shouldn't be poor person in the US. Don't you see we have already implemented this "change" and it doesn't work.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
And this is not about redistributing wealth. If you are in the top 1% of earners.. why do you need a tax break. A tax break should be given to those who's lives it would make a greater impact on....
Ryan, do you know the facts about our taxes?
The top 1% of wage earners pay over a third of all income taxes... The first FOUR MONTHS of their pay checks per year go to the government. How much more do you want them to pay?

 

[triga22]

When I watched some of Osama's speech last night I was laughing.
He wants to give "everyone" healthcare. Is healcare free? NO. So where do you think that he gets the money from? The "rich people". So then he takes more money from them and decides to give it to the "poor" people so that they can have healthcare. To me that dosent sound right. Why becuase most, yes most people that are poor chose to be that way by making bad decisions, like not getting an education. When the "rich" people got an education and worked their butts off to get a job and make money so that they can give more away so that the slackers can have healthcare,so that the drug dealin thuggs can have welfare. NO NO NO
Another thing he said is that its for "EVERYONE" no just US citizens, so that mabye the Illegals could have just as many rights cause that sounds great.
And then I was listening to Neil Bortz and he was talking to this lady that went for (I cant remember the name its for the couples that had a kid and they go there for bottles, and other baby stuff), anyways she went there to apply for it and said it was the easiest thing to get no-one was turned down including illegals. Thats pathetic. Same with a girl that was paying out of state tuition and found that the illegals living out of state were paying in state tuition. But thankfully someone had the smarts to change that.