Obama and Oprah...
- Thread starter triga22
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darthtang aw
Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
I've spoken with soilders who were deployed there... it is a crappy place, and many of the things go unreported. But these primaries are playing a role, which is why they are not talking about it.
Excuse me? Rosie O'donnel is that you?
I've spoken with soilders who were deployed there... it is a crappy place, and many of the things go unreported. But these primaries are playing a role, which is why they are not talking about it.
Excuse me? Rosie O'donnel is that you?
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
What is impressive is that he is the first black man to win in a presidential primary election. That I can think of.
I could argue, I've spoken with my force recon marine cousin, or my apache driver, and they wholeheartedly believe in what they were doing in Iraq. These are guys on the "front line." And very intellegent people who chose the military vs other lucrative professions.
forget Bill...
This is history.. and important ...escpecially in a state that is 95% white.
I'm not saying people there don't believe in what they are doing or that regardless of how they feel politically about the war... soilders will do the job... however... that doesn't change how crappy it is
What is impressive is that he is the first black man to win in a presidential primary election. That I can think of.
I could argue, I've spoken with my force recon marine cousin, or my apache driver, and they wholeheartedly believe in what they were doing in Iraq. These are guys on the "front line." And very intellegent people who chose the military vs other lucrative professions.
forget Bill...
This is history.. and important ...escpecially in a state that is 95% white.
I'm not saying people there don't believe in what they are doing or that regardless of how they feel politically about the war... soilders will do the job... however... that doesn't change how crappy it is
darthtang aw
Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
.
... that doesn't change how crappy it is
That is a funny statement. Has there ever been a war that wasn't crappy?
.
... that doesn't change how crappy it is
That is a funny statement. Has there ever been a war that wasn't crappy?
jerthunter
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
That is a funny statement. Has there ever been a war that wasn't crappy?
I always thought the cold war was pretty rockin' awesome man!
That is a funny statement. Has there ever been a war that wasn't crappy?
I always thought the cold war was pretty rockin' awesome man!
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Excuse me? Rosie O'donnel is that you?
ya whatever,
Iraq is not Germany or Korea. Its hot, stinky, and you have to constantly worry about your life. Soilders have been deployed way too long, and are over worked. We've been there 6 years... can you believe it? Do you see things changing fast enough to say if we stay we won't spend another 6 fighting the same war with little to perhaps moderate change.
Excuse me? Rosie O'donnel is that you?
ya whatever,
Iraq is not Germany or Korea. Its hot, stinky, and you have to constantly worry about your life. Soilders have been deployed way too long, and are over worked. We've been there 6 years... can you believe it? Do you see things changing fast enough to say if we stay we won't spend another 6 fighting the same war with little to perhaps moderate change.
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by TriGa22
Thats weird because I to have spoke with soldiers. On that lives a few strees over and I have known him since I was born. Its weird that he said places that 6 months ago you couldnt go and now these places are bases for troops. Troops were on a local talk show and one went into tears becuase of no support most troops want to be there and fight the war. But yea your right the war is horrible, and we should pull out becuase obviously the troops dont want to be there.
hunh? I think most americans support the troops. Its not about the troops and what they want. I'm sure you'll get soilders who feel all sorts of different ways... its about what is best for our country.
Thats weird because I to have spoke with soldiers. On that lives a few strees over and I have known him since I was born. Its weird that he said places that 6 months ago you couldnt go and now these places are bases for troops. Troops were on a local talk show and one went into tears becuase of no support most troops want to be there and fight the war. But yea your right the war is horrible, and we should pull out becuase obviously the troops dont want to be there.
hunh? I think most americans support the troops. Its not about the troops and what they want. I'm sure you'll get soilders who feel all sorts of different ways... its about what is best for our country.
m0nk
Active Member
Originally Posted by m0nk
Honestly, debating "facts" is pointless, both sides have "facts" to back up their opinions, and that's really what it comes down to; opinions. This is why I stay away from these debates, because nothing I say is going to change the way someone else feels about their "side", and nothing anyone else says is going to change the way I feel. This thread is going nowhere fast, as do all political arguments, and the entire second page of this thread is an example of that.
All these things do is strain relations between well meaning people on both sides of an imaginary line. I'll vote for who I like and so will everyone else here, and whatever happens, happens. Someone will win and someone won't be happy with the results, but this is what makes America, we have the freedom to dislike the people in public office.
Ahem... ^
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Are you kidding me? Serious problems are the civil war and the great depression. Please stop the doom and gloom and how things suck so bad and this country is heading towards disaster. The fact is, this country is fine. sure we have some problems and small issues, but to categorize them as serious and "must deal with" is ridiculous.
Has YOUR quality of life gone down at all in the last 8 years?
as far as Butto goes, She openly stated she was going after Bin Laden, then she was killed....think about it.
She was going to talk about the rigged elections. (Bhutto)... I don't think Al Qaeda has taken credit for this...as they usually do.
8 years is hard to say because I am still young. But it is clear to me that the 8 years Bush has been in office hasn't been positive. He can say he did something about terrorism and Hussein, but what else? He will go down as a bad president. In 8 years I've seen governmemt neglect, skyrocking prices, massive layoffs, bad presidential decisions, poor education, increase in defecit, terrible speeches, etc..etc... What has Bush accomplished?
Are you kidding me? Serious problems are the civil war and the great depression. Please stop the doom and gloom and how things suck so bad and this country is heading towards disaster. The fact is, this country is fine. sure we have some problems and small issues, but to categorize them as serious and "must deal with" is ridiculous.
Has YOUR quality of life gone down at all in the last 8 years?
as far as Butto goes, She openly stated she was going after Bin Laden, then she was killed....think about it.
She was going to talk about the rigged elections. (Bhutto)... I don't think Al Qaeda has taken credit for this...as they usually do.
8 years is hard to say because I am still young. But it is clear to me that the 8 years Bush has been in office hasn't been positive. He can say he did something about terrorism and Hussein, but what else? He will go down as a bad president. In 8 years I've seen governmemt neglect, skyrocking prices, massive layoffs, bad presidential decisions, poor education, increase in defecit, terrible speeches, etc..etc... What has Bush accomplished?
darthtang aw
Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
ya whatever,
Iraq is not Germany or Korea. Its hot, stinky, and you have to constantly worry about your life.
N. Korea, Vietnam, WW2 african campaign, yeah, that is definitely a different factor than past conflicts....
Originally Posted by Rylan1
Soilders have been deployed way too long, and are over worked.
Most of those have voluntarily reupped/reenlisted...
Originally Posted by Rylan1
We've been there 6 years... can you believe it? Do you see things changing fast enough to say if we stay we won't spend another 6 fighting the same war with little to perhaps moderate change.
Wars that lasted more than 6 years that had they not would have greatly affected this country and the world as we know it.
King William's War
Queen Anne's War
French and Indian War
American Revolution
World War II--1939-1945
Vietnam War
To put a timline on a war defeats the point of the war. Each of those wars I mentioned mentioned went on longer than 6 years. In fact at the 6 year mark the american revolution and the 3 wars previous for this country while we were still british would have been lost if quite at the 6 year mark and the U.S. A. would never have come about and the world you kow of today would be greatly different. So don't give the crap that it has been 6 years and not much has changed...I am sure glad our revolutionary forefathers didn't have similar thinking...
ya whatever,
Iraq is not Germany or Korea. Its hot, stinky, and you have to constantly worry about your life.
N. Korea, Vietnam, WW2 african campaign, yeah, that is definitely a different factor than past conflicts....
Originally Posted by Rylan1
Soilders have been deployed way too long, and are over worked.
Most of those have voluntarily reupped/reenlisted...
Originally Posted by Rylan1
We've been there 6 years... can you believe it? Do you see things changing fast enough to say if we stay we won't spend another 6 fighting the same war with little to perhaps moderate change.
Wars that lasted more than 6 years that had they not would have greatly affected this country and the world as we know it.
King William's War
Queen Anne's War
French and Indian War
American Revolution
World War II--1939-1945
Vietnam War
To put a timline on a war defeats the point of the war. Each of those wars I mentioned mentioned went on longer than 6 years. In fact at the 6 year mark the american revolution and the 3 wars previous for this country while we were still british would have been lost if quite at the 6 year mark and the U.S. A. would never have come about and the world you kow of today would be greatly different. So don't give the crap that it has been 6 years and not much has changed...I am sure glad our revolutionary forefathers didn't have similar thinking...
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
This is history.. and important ...escpecially in a state that is 95% white.
lol I watched a new report over lunch, I guess it is suprising that people aren't racist. Who would have thought?
As for stuff Bush has done,
Cut taxes, good fueled huge growth in our economy, we have lybia, maybe North Korea, Not quite sure yet, We have Iraq, going pretty good considering, helped in banning partial birth abortions, finished off kyoto, he helped streamline slightly the government, and opened up more purchasing to bidding, dept of homeland security, Killed the liberal ABA's unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined "collective" right. Stuff I don't particularly like, but he did, drug coverage, no child left behind.
This is history.. and important ...escpecially in a state that is 95% white.
lol I watched a new report over lunch, I guess it is suprising that people aren't racist. Who would have thought?
As for stuff Bush has done,
Cut taxes, good fueled huge growth in our economy, we have lybia, maybe North Korea, Not quite sure yet, We have Iraq, going pretty good considering, helped in banning partial birth abortions, finished off kyoto, he helped streamline slightly the government, and opened up more purchasing to bidding, dept of homeland security, Killed the liberal ABA's unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined "collective" right. Stuff I don't particularly like, but he did, drug coverage, no child left behind.
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
N. Korea, Vietnam, WW2 african campaign, yeah, that is definitely a different factor than past conflicts....
Most of those have voluntarily reupped/reenlisted...
Wars that lasted more than 6 years that had they not would have greatly affected this country and the world as we know it.
King William's War
Queen Anne's War
French and Indian War
American Revolution
World War II--1939-1945
Vietnam War
To put a timline on a war defeats the point of the war. Each of those wars I mentioned mentioned went on longer than 6 years. In fact at the 6 year mark the american revolution and the 3 wars previous for this country while we were still british would have been lost if quite at the 6 year mark and the U.S. A. would never have come about and the world you kow of today would be greatly different. So don't give the crap that it has been 6 years and not much has changed...I am sure glad our revolutionary forefathers didn't have similar thinking...
What I was referring to is modern day like the bases in Germany and Korea, not past wars. I wpuld rather be on a base in Korea than in a sand storm in Iraq if I were a soilder...
But anyway... those wars had much more significance to our our development as a nation and stopping Nazi Germany from taking over the Eastern world and murdering millions of people. Vietnam is questionable... why are communist seen as evil devils? I never really though about it, but why were we so hell bent on ending communism? But to equate us invading a country that was rumored to have WMD's and to not do anything to people who have them. It seems hypocritcal at minimum... yet we let people commit genocide and leave millions to starve? Oh wait, Saddam killed thousands of Kurds.... Well hundreds of thousands are being killed in Africa.... Oh Iraq has oil ...
Back to the wars you mentioned... aren't the first 3 the same war or series of wars?
I also looked it up to be sure... in the info I found it states "From the standpoint of the American colonies, the war was completely pointless. Both French and English forces won a number of engagements and managed to occupy part of each other's territory. However, the treaty restored all possessions to their prewar status.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
But anyway... those wars had much more significance to our our development as a nation and stopping Nazi Germany from taking over the Eastern world and murdering millions of people. Vietnam is questionable... why are communist seen as evil devils? I never really though about it, but why were we so hell bent on ending communism?
I personally think there are two reasons, one it is the enemy USSR's form of government. And that is still partially ingrained in our society. Second, would me idealogical, it doesn't work, and is a breeding ground of corruption, human rights violations, and totally opposed to the traditional idealogy of the USA.
But anyway... those wars had much more significance to our our development as a nation and stopping Nazi Germany from taking over the Eastern world and murdering millions of people. Vietnam is questionable... why are communist seen as evil devils? I never really though about it, but why were we so hell bent on ending communism?
I personally think there are two reasons, one it is the enemy USSR's form of government. And that is still partially ingrained in our society. Second, would me idealogical, it doesn't work, and is a breeding ground of corruption, human rights violations, and totally opposed to the traditional idealogy of the USA.
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
lol I watched a new report over lunch, I guess it is suprising that people aren't racist. Who would have thought?
As for stuff Bush has done,
Cut taxes, good fueled huge growth in our economy, we have lybia, maybe North Korea, Not quite sure yet, We have Iraq, going pretty good considering, helped in banning partial birth abortions, finished off kyoto, he helped streamline slightly the government, and opened up more purchasing to bidding, dept of homeland security, Killed the liberal ABA's unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined "collective" right. Stuff I don't particularly like, but he did, drug coverage, no child left behind.
What happen to the growth of our economy?
No child left behind-- unsuccessful..
Government has largest deceit ever--- streamlining
drug coverage-- did he do this or did Congress? They made it illegal to get cheaper drugs from Canada.
His appointments - bad or questionable
Everyone is leaving his Cabinet
Homeland Security... inevidable based on 911, however I'll give him credit... but the FEMA debacle makes him loose some points here.
There is a reason why he has the worst approval rating in history. His negatives out way the postitives. And he has the most experienced staff... so experience with Cheney and Rumsfield... "Experience" does little for me right now.
lol I watched a new report over lunch, I guess it is suprising that people aren't racist. Who would have thought?
As for stuff Bush has done,
Cut taxes, good fueled huge growth in our economy, we have lybia, maybe North Korea, Not quite sure yet, We have Iraq, going pretty good considering, helped in banning partial birth abortions, finished off kyoto, he helped streamline slightly the government, and opened up more purchasing to bidding, dept of homeland security, Killed the liberal ABA's unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined "collective" right. Stuff I don't particularly like, but he did, drug coverage, no child left behind.
What happen to the growth of our economy?
No child left behind-- unsuccessful..
Government has largest deceit ever--- streamlining
drug coverage-- did he do this or did Congress? They made it illegal to get cheaper drugs from Canada.
His appointments - bad or questionable
Everyone is leaving his Cabinet
Homeland Security... inevidable based on 911, however I'll give him credit... but the FEMA debacle makes him loose some points here.
There is a reason why he has the worst approval rating in history. His negatives out way the postitives. And he has the most experienced staff... so experience with Cheney and Rumsfield... "Experience" does little for me right now.
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
I personally think there are two reasons, one it is the enemy USSR's form of government. And that is still partially ingrained in our society. Second, would me idealogical, it doesn't work, and is a breeding ground of corruption, human rights violations, and totally opposed to the traditional idealogy of the USA.
There is corruption in any government including ours. I can buy what you are saying... I don't know though... I see these things continuing to happen and I just understand why nothing is done about it.
I personally think there are two reasons, one it is the enemy USSR's form of government. And that is still partially ingrained in our society. Second, would me idealogical, it doesn't work, and is a breeding ground of corruption, human rights violations, and totally opposed to the traditional idealogy of the USA.
There is corruption in any government including ours. I can buy what you are saying... I don't know though... I see these things continuing to happen and I just understand why nothing is done about it.
stdreb27
Active Member
What happen to the growth of our economy? umm still growing, GDP up 4.9% last quarter...
No child left behind-- unsuccessful.. well, that is what you get for letting kennedy write the bill.
Government has largest deceit ever--- streamlining simply not true,
drug coverage-- did he do this or did Congress? They made it illegal to get cheaper drugs from Canada. Did you miss the MASSIVE medicare drug program.
Everyone is leaving his Cabinet (so 7 years isn't enough?)
Homeland Security... inevidable based on 911, however I'll give him credit... but the FEMA debacle makes him loose some points here.
Was it a FEMA debacle when they turned down aid before the storm because that moron governer wanted to "run the show"?
No child left behind-- unsuccessful.. well, that is what you get for letting kennedy write the bill.
Government has largest deceit ever--- streamlining simply not true,
drug coverage-- did he do this or did Congress? They made it illegal to get cheaper drugs from Canada. Did you miss the MASSIVE medicare drug program.
Everyone is leaving his Cabinet (so 7 years isn't enough?)
Homeland Security... inevidable based on 911, however I'll give him credit... but the FEMA debacle makes him loose some points here.
Was it a FEMA debacle when they turned down aid before the storm because that moron governer wanted to "run the show"?
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by shogun323
Come on guys.... don't stop the debating now!! I have been successfully neglecting my work all day following this thread and I have an hour and a half left!!!
More points and counter points please!!!!
sadly I have 2.5 hours to finish a day's worth of work. hehe
Come on guys.... don't stop the debating now!! I have been successfully neglecting my work all day following this thread and I have an hour and a half left!!!
More points and counter points please!!!!
sadly I have 2.5 hours to finish a day's worth of work. hehe