Obama supporters. I have one question

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2472616
Home Mortgages should NOT be regulated by the Feds. Nowhere Constitutionally does the Federal Government have the power to do that.
.
Since when has that stopped them. Medicare, now that is not in the Constitution either is it? National Health Care, Nope!
Listening to terrorists phones ringing...YES, (provide for the common defense). But, Obama voted NO and Clinton DID NOT VOTE, it expires tonight.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2471900
No, whats hypocritical is that McCain said he and Congress regrets the genocide they allowed to happen in Rwanda, and that he doesn't want it to happen in Iraq...yet its happening right now in Africa. I read a report that like in the last 8 years or so there have been over 500,000 deaths in Sudan region.
Less than 200 people have died in Africa in the last 10 years. Africa is relatively peaceful. The only reason people want us to go there is because they want to occupy more countries and steal their resources.
 

andy51632

Member
You know I am a conservative and a christian. I voted for Bush in both elections. I don't regret my vote but think we need to look at taking a different approach with terrorism, health care, national debt, immigration, and education. I am not saying Obama's policy's are right I am saying they are different. Our current policies are not working. Why don't we let him have a try and see what happens.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by andy51632
http:///forum/post/2473290
You know I am a conservative and a christian. I voted for Bush in both elections. I don't regret my vote but think we need to look at taking a different approach with terrorism, health care, national debt, immigration, and education. I am not saying Obama's policy's are right I am saying they are different. Our current policies are not working. Why don't we let him have a try and see what happens.
I thought the way you do before I looked into Obama's record.
He voted against the bill that would have made it a federal crime to take a minor girl across state lines for an abortion to avoid a state's parental consent or notification laws.
While in the Illinois legislature he stated the position of banning all handguns and Semi Auto weapons.
Just those two issues make him unacceptable to me and I ain't all that conservative.
But there's more
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/...as-tax-policy/
Obama’s “Tax Policy”
Presidential candidate Barack Obama introduced his tax plan in a speech yesterday. Unfortunately, it overflowed with bad ideas. First, Obama’s plan to increase dividend and capital gains taxes is out of step with global tax realities. Virtually all of the 30 major industrial nations provide relief for capital gains and dividend taxes. Indeed, a dozen major nations have capital gains tax rates of zero percent. And if the current dividend tax cut expires, the United States would have the highest dividend tax rate among major nations.
Second, Obama hasn’t got his math right. He claims that there is “$1 trillion worth of loopholes in the corporate tax code.” That is ridiculous. The entire corporate income tax collected only $372 billion in 2007.
Third, Obama proposed special tax breaks for seniors, which would take 7 million more elderly completely off the tax rolls. But that would inject a very unfair element of age discrimination into the tax code. Old folks are already taking young folks to the cleaners in terms of federal fiscal policy. Obama would make the injustice worse, yet he had the chutzpah to claim in his tax speech: “It’s time to stand up to the special interest carve outs.”
Fourth, Obama proposed a new payroll tax credit, but the tax code already has a huge program designed to offset the payroll tax—the Earned Income Tax Credit. Adding a new low-income tax “cut” on top would result in millions of people who already don’t pay any income tax getting an added $500 check from the government. That’s not tax policy, that’s simply looting from the people who do pay the federal tax bill.
I’m amazed Obama found two former Treasury officials who signed on to his plan because this isn’t tax policy in the sense of following any rational economic principles. It’s just crass political pandering using the tax code to bait votes.
 

salty blues

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2473376
Let's not forget Obama also voted against banning partial birth abortions...
It is my understanding that he also voted against the "Born Alive Infant Protection Act". This bill, which did pass, calls for doctors to save babies who survive even after being subjected to the brutal and cruel abortion process. So basically Obama just says to let 'em die while they are trying to draw their first breath. What a guy!
 

andy51632

Member
I see your point because I too have trouble some of these issues but let me explain my point.
Abortion is a very tough issue for me particular. I don't understand it but I have never been in the situation that some face. I think it is unfair for me to judge somebody when I have not walked in their shoes. From a religous point of view if God actually wanted a person to be born in this world I do not beleive any thing would stop that. I am not saying it is okay to have an abortion but I do not think these people are criminals
Taxes....I don't like them..... who does.
I work for a large corporation that could give two shi_s if I die or live. All they care about is the bottom line not how they get there. Yea, go ahead and tax them as much as possible.
I do not see any problem giving a tax break to older americans. Somebody that was promised a good social security check but it ended up being hardly nothing. I have watched as my grandma has struggled to pay for her medication and think she deserves better
As for the poor getting back money they never payed in. Some people abuse this just like everything else. There are some that this can completely change their lives. Kids that get new clothes and good food to eat. Single mothers that have a chance to get back in to school. What does this money do for the rich???? 25% of a car payment? New reef tank? Night at the casino??? Let me see money that can totally help somebodys way of life or some entertainment for some high rollers. I think we all know which option God would choose. Give them some money I don't care if they have paid it in or not.
 

salty blues

Active Member
Originally Posted by andy51632
http:///forum/post/2473514
I see your point because I too have trouble some of these issues but let me explain my point.
Abortion is a very tough issue for me particular. I don't understand it but I have never been in the situation that some face. I think it is unfair for me to judge somebody when I have not walked in their shoes. From a religous point of view if God actually wanted a person to be born in this world I do not beleive any thing would stop that. I am not saying it is okay to have an abortion but I do not think these people are criminals
Taxes....I don't like them..... who does.
I work for a large corporation that could give two shi_s if I die or live. All they care about is the bottom line not how they get there. Yea, go ahead and tax them as much as possible.
I do not see any problem giving a tax break to older americans. Somebody that was promised a good social security check but it ended up being hardly nothing. I have watched as my grandma has struggled to pay for her medication and think she deserves better
As for the poor getting back money they never payed in. Some people abuse this just like everything else. There are some that this can completely change their lives. Kids that get new clothes and good food to eat. Single mothers that have a chance to get back in to school. What does this money do for the rich???? 25% of a car payment? New reef tank? Night at the casino??? Let me see money that can totally help somebodys way of life or some entertainment for some high rollers. I think we all know which option God would choose. Give them some money I don't care if they have paid it in or not.
Judging someone without being in their shoes is not the issue. Any abortion is killing a defenseless innocent. And please do not put the resonsibility on God. Contrary to what a lot of people think, every thing that does or doesn't happen is not neccessarily God's doing. Sin, evil, and human nature(not God) are responsible for many bad things.
 

andy51632

Member
Originally Posted by salty blues
http:///forum/post/2473565
Judging someone without being in their shoes is not the issue. Any abortion is killing a defenseless innocent. And please do not put the resonsibility on God. Contrary to what a lot of people think, every thing that does or doesn't happen is not neccessarily God's doing. Sin, evil, and human nature(not God) are responsible for many bad things.
All I am saying is if God needs this person created it will be so.
 

andy51632

Member
Abortion is a choice people make. I believe it is morally wrong but if it were illegal people would still do it. They are going to have to live with it for the rest of their lives. I could not live that way but that is just me.
They have to do this sometimes to save the mother. It seems to be alright then, nobody has a problem it. Why? The innocent life is still lost.
 

salty blues

Active Member
Originally Posted by andy51632
http:///forum/post/2473584
Abortion is a choice people make. I believe it is morally wrong but if it were illegal people would still do it. They are going to have to live with it for the rest of their lives. I could not live that way but that is just me.
They have to do this sometimes to save the mother. It seems to be alright then, nobody has a problem it. Why? The innocent life is still lost.
In fact, abortion to "save the mother's life" is almost non-existent, but I get your point. This excuse has been hyped to the point that a woman may claim that having a baby is so mentally distressing that it could harm her life. What a freakin' load of fertilize.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2471387
No my complaint is he doesn't address it as if it is an issue......look at his issues...nothing addressing Terrorism abroad.
If you've listened to his hot air he wants to sit down and chat with the folks that have pledged to destroy us. Surely some milk and cookies will make them see the light.
If you think this guy is going to fight terrorism forget about it. He needs all the money to fund his universal helathcare at a price tag of 1 trillion. The tax cuts he will let expire in NO WAY will cover this tremendous cost. So....he'll cut and run regrding the war on terror.....drastically cutting the military. He will have to increase taxes on all to help fund his plan.
What does he stand for anyway? Mr Change...with no record to speak of and who knows what he will do regarding our military and defense in general.
It is nothing but a dog and pony show.....he's coming for your wallet. You'll have government rationed healthcare...and you may need it to recover from the terrorists attacks here at home.
If elected....he'll be about as good as Jimmy Carter......please help us if that happens.
Do you actually see ANY substance in what he says besides...I'm Mr Change and Mr Hope?
Hope won;t stop the terrorists....but the military can.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2471900
No, whats hypocritical is that McCain said he and Congress regrets the genocide they allowed to happen in Rwanda, and that he doesn't want it to happen in Iraq...yet its happening right now in Africa. I read a report that like in the last 8 years or so there have been over 500,000 deaths in Sudan region.
Like on other threads...you blast Bush for not following UN lead (there's a joke) in Iraq....yet you want the US to saddle up and head to Afirca? Where is the UN lead you state we should follow?
As I have told you in another thread......take some time and do some research on Rwanda..and what Bill CLinton knew and when he knew it.
It's okay if you want to blast Republicans, but please be sure to fire some bullets at your democrats.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Bobo's view on how to fight terrorists...send them to school and give them some heatlh care, some money, goods, .....

This guy is lost in the clouds.
War on Terror
Sen. Obama (D-IL), like his fellow Democratic candidates, has been critical of the Bush administration’s policies relating to the war on terror. In a recent Foreign Affairs article, Obama called the Bush’s response to 9/11 “conventional thinking of the past, largely viewing problems as state-based and principally amenable to military solutions.” As a result of the actions taken under the auspices of the war on terror, Obama says, “the world has lost trust in our purposes and our principles.”
Instead, Obama says, U.S. efforts in the Middle East should focus on empowering “forces of moderation” by increasing “access to education and health care, trade and investment” and support for civil society.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2471424
Why does Barak and Hillary continue to punish up ward mobility, education and income? Is it not the American dream to become wealthy, to move up the ladder? Then why a "progressive" tax code? Why punish me for 12 years of education after high school. Why punish me for working hard and making a good living. Am I not a "working man" just because I am educated and in a "white collar" job? does working 60-80 hours a week not qualify me a a "working man"? Both Barrak and Hillary have made it clear they play from the "from each according to his means..to each according to his needs" Socialist playbook. If they conintue to spend, and both Barak and Hillary have healthcare costs which would bankrupt us, the according to the GAO, by 2040 we will no longer be able to do anything other than make interest payments on out debt.
Think hard before you vote, do we need bigger more "progressive" government, or do we need to fall back on the faith the Founding Fathers had in the People, and the documents setting forth a limited government. Unfortunately, no candidate is running for the Constitutionalist party.
The top 50% of earners in the US pay over 90% of all taxes. If memory serves it is actually about 95%. I'm not sure how much more the democrats want them to pay.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2471507
A war on poverty solves many other problems... such as the the amount of $ for social programs such as welfare, unemployement. It also would decrease crime and drug use. It would promote a better family structure. It would give young people a better outlook on life and enhance the possibility for a college education. It also would increase the tax base and lastly it would boost and stabilze our economy.
We've been doing that since the 60's. Throwing money away on failed programs. We've conditioned poor folks to depend on government.
Please give me ONE example of a government social program that has achieved all goals and has stayed within projected costs.
The government has failed these folks period. The democrats along with Mr Change and Mr Hope have no solutions...just growing the failed practices of the past...which will yield the same failed costly results.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by andy51632
http:///forum/post/2473514
I see your point because I too have trouble some of these issues but let me explain my point.
Abortion is a very tough issue for me particular. I don't understand it but I have never been in the situation that some face. I think it is unfair for me to judge somebody when I have not walked in their shoes. From a religous point of view if God actually wanted a person to be born in this world I do not beleive any thing would stop that. I am not saying it is okay to have an abortion but I do not think these people are criminals
Taxes....I don't like them..... who does.
I work for a large corporation that could give two shi_s if I die or live. All they care about is the bottom line not how they get there. Yea, go ahead and tax them as much as possible.
I do not see any problem giving a tax break to older americans. Somebody that was promised a good social security check but it ended up being hardly nothing. I have watched as my grandma has struggled to pay for her medication and think she deserves better
As for the poor getting back money they never payed in. Some people abuse this just like everything else. There are some that this can completely change their lives. Kids that get new clothes and good food to eat. Single mothers that have a chance to get back in to school. What does this money do for the rich???? 25% of a car payment? New reef tank? Night at the casino??? Let me see money that can totally help somebodys way of life or some entertainment for some high rollers. I think we all know which option God would choose. Give them some money I don't care if they have paid it in or not.
The one particular abortion bill Boba opposed was not preventing a woman from having an abortion. It was making it a crime for a non parent or guardian to take an underaged girl to another state to avoid complying with a law requiring a girl's parents be notified or give consent for an abortion to be performed. Parents have to consent to ANY other non emergency medical procedure to be performed to the extint a school cannot give your kid an asperin without permission. I dont think its unreasonable to expect the same in case of an abortion. There was no excuse for that vote other than catering to a extremist group that opposes anything that might be seen as making a moral judgementl
Just because a "corporation" doesn't care about you does that mean it shouldn't be profitable? By taxing the corporation as much as possible don't you understaind that cuts into the amount of money available for the company to pay for expenses like say your salary? A corporation is nothing more than a group of people mutually invested in a company for the purpose of making money, be they corporate officers, stockholders or employees. And that is about the order of priority when it comes to splitting the profits. I'd keep that in mind.
If you study up on social security you will learn it was never meant to be the sole source of support for older Americans. It was intended to supplement savings and pensions. Up until the interest rates started dropping I was making over 500 dollars a month in interest on my savings account and have averaged about that much in dividens and capital gains off my stocks over the last 4 or 5 years. None of that includes our 401K and IRA accounts. I collect Disability Social Security every month and I am taxed on it.
I don't mention this to brag but to make a point. I don't like taxes either but I have no problem with the fact I am taxed on my social security. I own my house and cars outright. Under Obama's plan I would no longer have to pay any tax on the Social Security income. Do you think its fair to shift that tax burden from someone like me to someone like you who I assumes has to worry about having a job to keep a roof over your head and your family fed?
As for the poor needing to get even more back I must call BS. What the poor need is to become not poor and that doesn't happen through handouts. Any able bodied person with a sound mind has no excuse for not getting by with even some to spare. I understand crap happens sometimes but I am not talking about people who had a sudden run of bad luck or even stupidity that has knocked them down. I am talking about people who's biggest goal in life is to make night manager at the 7-11 or tend bar at the coolest club in town and then sit around and whine because they can't afford to support the three kids they shouldn't have had.
Da, I sound preachy. End of Sermon
 
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