Obama supporters. I have one question

1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2518197
They will come up with something, watch. I bet they will play up how they are going to "secure the borders".
No need to bring it up. Barack's position on this is well known... it has to do with handing out driver licenses...
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2518246
I am not saying you are wrong.... however they believe they have a claim to the land as well...which is why the problem exists... I don't think God is saying we need to have a Holy war.
No, the problem exists because Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Iran keep funding terrorist groups like Hamas and the rest of the world keeps trying to make Israel give more concessions to the terrorists.
As was already pointed out, the Palestinians have never had a country. It's goofy for them to try to claim the land that Israel has prospered in as their own.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2518258
clarify this for me... I don't have access to a Bible right now.... what is the verse in regards to the Sermon on the Mount... ? I believe this is the passage in Romans...
He didn't say specifically. He just said "The Sermon on the Mount". That actually covers a couple of chapters. None, however, that legitimize homosexual relationships (from a Biblical perspective)
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2518267
Do you honestly believe you all are satisfied with your candidate? I don't think so... Many consevatives are against McCain... the only way to get this fraction of voters is to have a strong conservative VP... which means that many of the GDP votes will not be for McCain, but against the other candidate. So it will be a matter of who they hate more... Clinton or Obama to what your turnout is going to be.
Actually I don't see that. McCain has promised not to sign McCain Edwards if it ever hits his desk as the public spoke out on it so strongly. He won't raise taxes, and he will Give Iraq the support (and the military) they need. He will cut excess spending and kill ear marks. This is the conservative 4 big issues. On these we are in line.
Obama VS. Clinton differences are in their recent past and not on the issues so much. it is race, Ethics, religion, and those they surround themselves with.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2518260
You have argued this many times before but a lot of people, myself included, believe that we are not wiping out terrorism, even if our actions do kill some of the extremists.
Take a look at the article below. Here are a couple of examples supporting the notion that our war is robbing young Iraqis of their futures, and thereby creating terrorists as fast or faster than we are killing them.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080314/...glPc0E_eZm.3QA
Crimzy, I've read that article and countless others.
We are not robbing them of anything. Even the teens interviewed in your article talk about how they had hopes of getting rid of Saddam.
This article, to me, just reminds me all the more of what and who we are fighting for, and who will suffer most quickly if we cut and run.
Do you think those teens will have a better future under the Sunni's when Iran backs them in a civil war? Do you think the young lady interviewed will get to go to school and watch tv if Al Qaeda establishes a new Taliban-styled government?
I've never said we've fixed everything in Iraq. Ironically, I'll borrow Barack's favorite word and say we are bringing "Hope" to the people, however. Take a look here for a different viewpoint: http://theotheriraq.com/ and some of the success stories.
Did you know local businesses held a job fair in downtown Fallujah last month?
Success is coming slowly; but it is occurring.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2518267
Do you honestly believe you all are satisfied with your candidate? I don't think so... Many consevatives are against McCain... the only way to get this fraction of voters is to have a strong conservative VP... which means that many of the GDP votes will not be for McCain, but against the other candidate. So it will be a matter of who they hate more... Clinton or Obama to what your turnout is going to be.
Hehe, as you know Rylan, you're preaching to the choir here.
We may not like McCain (though I admit he is winning me over. Finding out he has two sons in the military, one of which just served 7 months in Iraq impressed me), but we don't like the Dem choices a more.
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2518281
You know you are the typical quiter, something gets to hard you just walk away instead of finishing what you started or fixing what you broke.
...
You know you are the typical stubborn my-way-or-you're-a-placelabelhere hater.
Why can't you admit the foreign policy or the McCainBush admisitration is not going to work? It is not working now, it won't work in 10 years, it won't work in 100 years. This country (IraQ)has to find a way to get along with each other sometime. How is us staying there, getting our guys killed every day, helping? How long shall we try to get them to kiss and make up?
They never will as long as they can rely on us to "keep the peace". We will be their army, their police forever if we let them. Tell them to start acting like people who want to be free and let them fix it.
They pottery barn rule of "You broke it, You bought it" does apply, but we have paid enough.
You would stay there forever, because if we ever leave, it is Cut & Running, right? How long? How many dead?
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2518324
You know you are the typical stubborn my-way-or-you're-a-placelabelhere hater.
Why can't you admit the foreign policy or the McCainBush admisitration is not going to work? It is not working now, it won't work in 10 years, it won't work in 100 years. This country (IraQ)has to find a way to get along with each other sometime. How is us staying there, getting our guys killed every day, helping? How long shall we try to get them to kiss and make up?
They never will as long as they can rely on us to "keep the peace". We will be their army, their police forever if we let them. Tell them to start acting like people who want to be free and let them fix it.
They pottery barn rule of "You broke it, You bought it" does apply, but we have paid enough.
You would stay there forever, because if we ever leave, it is Cut & Running, right? How long? How many dead?
No I am not my way or the highway. I keep hearing let diplomacy work, let diplomacy work from the left side of the aisle.....It hasn't worked the last 30-40 years, why should it work now? We are still in Korea, do you have a problem with that. There is a relative peace there oin that border and our troops are securing that. What is wrong with that? That is how I envision Iraq becoming. You call it McCain Bush policies when McCain hasn't even been in office yet....Bush policy may have not worked, but once he pulled his head out and increased the troop level like many of us have been saying for a long time the violence has dropped significantly.
We lost more troops in one year of vietnam than this entire iraq war. We lost more troops in one hour in WW2 than we have lost in this entire war. You speak of casualties as if they are astronomical and take away the credit our military should be getting for having such a low casualty rate.
I can't give you a specific number, I rely on the military leaders of the current military to tell us when all is lost and not worth it as they have first hand on the ground info. The rest of us are arm chairing it from home.
Don't be surprised if Obama wins and he gets in the white house the troops stay...the presidents see papers the public NEVERS see that deal with world politics.
 
suzy

suzy

Member
I won't be surprised. This is the worst disaster in foreign policy our country has ever seen. I also won't be surprised, if Obama wins (or Clinton), to see how the right wing blames all the mess on the left.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Ifr they win and stay in Iraq why would I blame them? That is just dumb. If they pull us out and Iraq becomes a bees nest for al qaeda and terrorists and we get attacked on our soil 2 years into their term, then I will blame them. If Afghanistan sudde4nnly has huge violence outbreaks I will blame them.
Why shouldn't I?
If all goes well after the pull out I will give credit where it is due. I have always done that. No matter what party has been in office.
And once again you don't answer a single question. debating with you is like debating with the TV.
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Win? Yeah, right. I see the entire continent holding hands, singing KumBaYa and having picnics, playing in fields of butterfiles. And, after 2 milleniums of Sunni-Shite-Kurd hatred, all it took was a toppling of one dictator to get them to all come together and get kissy face.
What were we thinking........
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2518377
Win? Yeah, right. I see the entire continent holding hands, singing KumBaYa and having picnics, playing in fields of butterfiles. And, after 2 milleniums of Sunni-Shite-Kurd hatred, all it took was a toppling of one dictator to get them to all come together and get kissy face.
What were we thinking........
So you don't think Obama or Hilary can win?
Yeah and 50 years ago no one thought a jew could live in Germany ever. 100 years ago no one thought blacks could be free in the U.S. 1770 the King Of englend never thought a small group of civilians could defeat the british army and they would accept taxes being raised.
 
suzy

suzy

Member
What questions? You ask questions like Rummey did in his press conferences. Leading questions with no answers.
So, why don't you love America like I do? Why do you want Iraqi children to die? Why are you so willing to have so many Americans die in a rash war? Why do you hate America?
Debating with you is like debating with my iPod, except my iPod has a sexy video of Nickleback and loud screaming music and it is cool. I guess it's not like debating with you.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
oh and 40 years ago no one thought the soviet union would crumble or could be beat to a standstill without ever firuing a shot by us..
And you are voting for a guy that runs on hope when you have no hope....interesting.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2517763
This report mentions the 911 commission report, this new report was done by the Pentagon, and is said to have more resources and was more thorough.... It is said that they went through 660,000 documents...
And again, The 9-11 commission found that of the KNOWN CONTACTS BETWEEN MEMBERS OF AL QEADA AND AGENTS OF THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT it appears no corrabative relationship resulted. No report has undone the fact there were known meetings throughout the 90's. We only knew the meetings took place. Until we had access to the country there was no way to know what did or didn't come of the meetings. I don't get whats so difficult to comprehend here. The meetings took place and the government feared there could be a coordinated effort by the two. Turns out they were wrong but it was a very legitimate concern.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2517771
No disrpect, but I think you are talking out of both sides of your mouth here.. It doesn't matter when the remarks were made... You say a reasonable case can be made for it, but then say this wasn't it... ??? What wasn't it? I don't think its about terrorist in the sense they weren't terrorist until they were already fed up...I think much of it has to do with our roles in that region, and the Palenstinian state. Regardless of what side you believe is correct... I think they feel that if we are for Israel, then we are against them... and I think our policy has suggested that.
So you say Paul and Wright difer on these views to "why".... my question is how they differ, and how can one be agreeable and not the other?
Ron Paul doesn't and didn't get a pass for what he said. But he brought it up in the context of a foreign policy debate. Wright included in a hateful anti-American diatribe. I believe Ron Paul is wrong on this. I believe Wright hates America.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2517868
I don't think the Dems are split. Once the primary is settled, once we go to convention, we'll be fired up no matter who wins. We just wanna get outta what we got now....
And start it up with McCainBush....
Interesting term "McCainBush" coming from the person who got her drawers in such a knot over the "disrespect" we were showing a US Senator by making up names for Obama
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
So Obama says he wasn't aware of Pastor Wright's statements. Hmmmmmmm.
"Obama was not the only national African-American figure to cozy up to Wright. TV host Oprah Winfrey once described herself as a congregant, but in recent years has disassociated herself from the controversial minister."
It appears a TV talk show host had sense enough to get out.
usatoday.com/news/elections/2007-03-20-690594000_x.htm
"At a recent Sunday service, following media coverage of Obama's last-minute decision not to have Wright speak at the senator's presidential announcement last month, Wright warned his flock not to believe any reports of a rift between him and the church's best-known member.
"Barack and I are fine," Wright, 65, on an out-of-state trip, said in a recorded message played to about 2,000 attendees. "The press is not to be trusted. ... Don't let somebody outside our camp divide us."
The erudite if blunt-speaking pastor also said Obama had apologized for withdrawing the invitation to speak at the Feb. 10 announcement in Springfield.
Obama had taken "some bad advice from some of his own campaign people who thought it would not be a good idea for me to be in front of the cameras on the day he announced," Wright said, adding that he and Obama had "moved on." Wright attended the announcement, but he did not speak.
His impassioned comments came after some conservatives questioned Obama's links to Trinity, which embraces what it calls a "Black Value System." Others criticized Obama for appearing to distance himself from the church and its leader.
Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton said that's not the case.
"The senator appreciates the continued prayers of his pastor," Burton said, adding in a statement that the invitation to Wright was withdrawn because Obama wanted to "avoid having statements and beliefs being used out of context and forcing the entire church to defend itself."
Wright declined to comment.
But in an interview with PBS's "Religion & Ethics Newsweekly" recorded just before Obama's February announcement, Wright said he warned the senator that their association could pose political problems, partly because of his history of supporting Palestinian causes"
We now know Obama was lying through his teeth when he said he wasn't aware of the pastor's controversial comments. That story is from a year ago
 
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