Obama supporters. I have one question

[zman1]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2551369
Assuming your disingenous comment is directed at me.......
I didn't say Scooby Doo....
I take it though by your direct comment to me, you were trying the shoe on, does it fit?
Actions of fear and hate of the GOP. Tactics -try to destroy the others since your candidate doesn't offer much of anything. The McCain gaffs are endless, are they really gaffs or just out of touch and confused....
Talk about conspiracy theories.
McCainBush - true spending that will bankrupt the country - we can't afford...

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2551894
I didn't say Scooby Doo....
I take it though by your direct comment to me, you were trying the shoe on, does it fit?
Actions of fear and hate of the GOP. Tactics -try to destroy the others since your candidate doesn't offer much of anything. The McCain gaffs are endless, are they really gaffs or just out of touch and confused....
Talk about conspiracy theories.
McCainBush - true spending that will bankrupt the country - we can't afford...
I have called NObama a racist and/or at a minimum a supporter of racism. I've been quite direct with my comments.
I've held the flashlight on Nobama, his associations, judgement and supporters. He was pretty much an unknown to many.
If you care to dispute anything I have possted regarding Nobama and his supporters please do so.
I would like to see actually action...not words from the gospel according to Nobama.
Nobama is a fake and a fraud...his far left voting record is proof he is not what he says he is.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2551898
I have called NObama a racist and/or at a minimum a supporter of racism. I've been quite direct with my comments.
I've held the flashlight on Nobama, his associations, judgement and supporters. He was pretty much an unknown to many.
If you care to dispute anything I have possted regarding Nobama and his supporters please do so.
I would like to see actually action...not words from the gospel according to Nobama.
Nobama is a fake and a fraud...his far left voting record is proof he is not what he says he is.
I'd love to be in the same room with you when "NObama" becomes our next president...your hatred for the man is rather impressive.
Anyone can do enough research on the web and cut and paste damning allegations and stories on McCain, Obama or Clinton, nothing you've provided is earth moving or surprising.
Due to the very weak candidate the GOP is bringing to the party this go around I can't wait to see what the GOP's hate machine starts to spit out against the democratic candidate, it should be very creative and largely made up. I hope the democratic candidate plays hardball, McCain will be easy pickings.
Couple of things about McCain:
Wasn't he part of the Keating Five...huge corruption scandal
Didn't he vote against MLK getting a national holiday (was he against the man or civil rights)?
Who's Vicki Iseman?

 

[zman1]

A lot of video links -
General Colin Powell retired, former Secretary of State - hasn't endorsed Obama - sounds familar though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn0GaZ80tC0&NR=1
McCain past Foreign Policy
http://youtube.com/watch?v=palbo-ilalU
Public display of McCain leadership
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAzBx...eature=related
Another public display of McCain leadership and knowledge
http://youtube.com/watch?v=v6GBdyws5YU
Iran - Strategic interest in the Middle East
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJRcO...eature=related
War President from a senior advisor to three American presidents, Nixon, Ford and Reagan
http://youtube.com/watch?v=D1tECWqg3yk
John McCain Gets Owned on Meet The Press
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajm5JTf7jZs&NR=1
Age
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkkTF...eature=related
McCainBush WE CAN'T AFFORD

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2551757
What I have found over the last couple months is alarming. I am concerend that somehow he is getting a pass from the main stram media with the brief exception of his pastor coverage for a few days.
I'm still surprised that democrats will support his guy despite his judgement and NUMEROUS questionable associations. Also, it appears his actions are CONTRARY to his mantra.
.
I remember when Carter ran in 76 it was a lot like now. Politics of the past vs. young, fresh new ideas from a candidate that that had an obscure political history, 4 years in the state Senate, 4 years Governor of a small rural state. Basically a political Nobody that came out of nowhere and quickly became a media darling. We saw how well that worked. Only good thing Carter ever did was legalize home brewing

While the Republican party has shifted toward the center (Controlled congress and whitehouse 6 years with no serious attempt to eliminate funding for the NEA, PBS etc. Increased funding and the power of the Federal department of education, Added benefits to Medicare rather than dealing with the solvency issue, no attempt to pass right to work or paycheck protectionm 20 BILLION sent to Africa for Aids relief etc.) the Democrat party has shifted to the left.
In the last election the Democrats made the majority of their gains by running people who were middle of the road politically. That shows there are still enough Sam Nunn types in the party that they can't gain a majority running left wingers across the board. The problem is the powerbase of the party is controlled by leftist groups like Moveon. You only have to think back to the Moveon ad slandering Patraeus. 25 Senators (all Democrats) voted against the resolution condeming the ad against the General they voted unanimously to confirm a few months earlier. Of course Obama slithered out of the building shortly before the vote so he wouldn't have to go on record

The middle of the road Dems will be faced with either towing the left wing line or they will be Liebermaned.
Obama wont lose because he's a racist. There are still too many people who think like the daytime gossip show hostess (that was cited as a factual source by one Obamite

) who doesn't think a minority can be a racist. Obama will lose because his record demonstrates him to be either very liberal or even left wing ala George McGovern, Walter Mondale or Michael Dukakis.
All McCain has to do is stick to the issues. Obama's record is out of the mainstream on too many issues.

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2552005
I remember when Carter ran in 76 it was a lot like now. Politics of the past vs. young, fresh new ideas from a candidate that that had an obscure political history, 4 years in the state Senate, 4 years Governor of a small rural state..
What got Carter elected was left over from the sleazy Watergate scandal connection party and a economy suffering from inflation and increasing unemployment. Similar to where we are today, I agree. So we are once again left with two democrats right now to choose from.. The main difference with Carter is his inabilities to unite people for the good of the country. History will write the Bush legacy, it will be another let down, like the one that got Carter elected. Hopefully it will be better than the last eight years - A chance I am willing to take on the next 4, if I don't like the outcome, I'll vote different for the next 4... Papa Bush was a one-timer too, but Ford was a 3/4 timer....

 

[scubadoo]

I don't hate Nobama...I think he is racist or supports same. However, I will denounce and expose hatred and racism.
My attempt is to post information that the main stream media will not talk about regarding Nobama. Little is known about him...so I will bring as much information forward as possible that is contrary to his words.
Some on this thread have been far ahead of the main stream media...as we were discussing his inspirational loving pastor long before mass media decided to cover it.
If Nobama supporters wish to easily dismiss his ties to terrorism through his church and Ayers as no big deal they are free to do so. If they wish to dismiss the terrorist support for Nobama abroad they also are free to do so. If they wish to ignore his far left voting record they are free to do so.
Nobama is the candidate that is painting the picture he is the new politician..free form corruption, old school politics, etc. This is his mantra and those that follow him beleive it.
What I have posted is contrary to his central theme and a major portion of his platform.
I understand much of this will make Nobama supporters uncomfortable. That somehow the champion for change is only the champion of the far left liberal cause. His views and voting record is contrary to his message.
I'll leave the hatred for NObama's church and pastor....along with his other spiritual leaders Pfleger and his supporter Farrakhan.
I have already stated my personal position regarding McCain on this thread and others. I've answered questions, etc.
If I were a Nobama supporter...I'd be concerned right now he won't make it past the convention. The CLinton machine will do everything in their power to get that nomination through the super delegates.
A poll indicating 56% of voters are less likely now to vote for Nobama due to his memebrship with his hateful church is a problem. Many of the other issues regarding NObama brought here have yet to be covered in detail by mass media....stay tuned.
Once his liberal voting record is discussed in detail that will drop Nobama at about 40% support in the general election plus or minus 2%. If the CLinton machine can hammer this home...Nobama could be left out in the cold come convention time.
If I were a Nobama supporter..Iwouldn't spend too much time worrying about MCain...I'd spend more time working on securing the nomination first.
Your second challege will be to convince the 20 plus % of voters that will move to the weak candidate McCain to support NObama.
I imagine it's pretty difficult as a NObama supporter to defend him..as his most recent voting record of 2007 points him far left which is cotrary to his unity message. Also, we'll simply have to ignore all those political and personal ties and stick to words. I guess Nobama supporters are stuck with saying check out his webpage...listen to his speech..this is what he said. Many of his actions and inside supporters are contrary to his "words"...so you'll just have to contiue quoting the Gospel according to Nobama.
Based on what I have found, I do not have much respect for Nobama but I do not hate the person. Respect is earned not given blindly.
Calling white people crackers is shameful. Being a member of a church promoting hatred is also shameful. Having the same church support Hamas is alarming. Finally, a far left voting record makes the rest all make sense...but don't worry about this...it's not in the Gospel according to Nobama...so I undertand it if NObama supporters chose to ignore it.
Of the three candidates remaining ..Nobama is the weakest one in my opinion..and is misleading America with his mantra. He continues to attempt to keep his far left agenda and record in the shadows.
Words have meaning.....action and /or inaction define the true meaning of the words spoken or written.

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2552088
He continues to attempt to keep his far left agenda and record in the shadows.
.
Shadows

another distortion....
http://obama.senate.gov/votes/
That would be the others I think you mean - You would have to actually look for theirs, but like I said before you can find theirs through the Obama link too. However, only the ones that were there since Obama went to the Senate - McCains you will have to dig deeper for the past.

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2551911
I'd love to be in the same room with you when "NObama" becomes our next president...your hatred for the man is rather impressive.
Anyone can do enough research on the web and cut and paste damning allegations and stories on McCain, Obama or Clinton, nothing you've provided is earth moving or surprising.
Due to the very weak candidate the GOP is bringing to the party this go around I can't wait to see what the GOP's hate machine starts to spit out against the democratic candidate, it should be very creative and largely made up. I hope the democratic candidate plays hardball, McCain will be easy pickings.
Couple of things about McCain:
Wasn't he part of the Keating Five...huge corruption scandal
Didn't he vote against MLK getting a national holiday (was he against the man or civil rights)?
Who's Vicki Iseman?

I see you are a socialist/marxist too.
I've had mixed feelings on MLK day. The man was brilliant, a leader, and changed the country for the better. Should we not have a Thomas Edison day for the same reason? Where do the holidays stop? What happened to celebrating Washington's and Lincoln's birthdays? Are they not at least as important a MLK? I'm happy to judge Obama on his character and not him skin color as MLK taught us to do. McCain addressed his vote, and stood up like a man to say he was wrong.
Vicki Iseman was a story made up by the NY Times, similar to the Dan Rather Bush hate speech (oh, was that a lie on national TV by the "free" press?) Shouldn't Rather be in jail for trying to influence an election, or is that only when Rush plays the same games on the democrats they played on us to give us McCain? Has Teddy K found that girl he left in that car to die yet? Every one seems to forget that at the bollot box.
There is no room in the Constitution for Obama or Hillary's Marxism. The whole idea this country was founded on was a small weak federal government. Now, we have the opposite. I'll ask you all to read the Declaration of Independance, Constitution, Washington's Farewell Address, and let's see where we are. None of those men held out their hands to their country to take. Those men and women who founded this country pledged their lives, their fortunes and their honor to defeating a large oppressive government.
It matters not to me Obama's skin color. It matters not to me Hillary's gender. My country matters to me, and they stand for everything this country is not.

 

[zman1]

McCain a clear leader in missed votes over time
Candidates in the current race - Voting record for 110th congress -
John McCain has missed 304 votes (56.9%) during the current Congress.
Barack Obama has missed 204 votes (38.2%) during the current Congress.
Hillary Clinton has missed 148 votes (27.7%) during the current Congress.
5.7% Democratic (49 members) 4.2% Republican (51 members) 2.1% Independent(2 members)
4.9% All Members (102 members)
Candidates in the current race - Voting record for 109th congress
John McCain has missed 58 votes (9%)
Hillary Clinton has missed 16 votes (2.5%)
Barack Obama has missed 11 votes (1.7%)
3.4% Democratic (45 members) 2.2% Republican (55 members) 5.3% Independent(1 member)
2.7% All Members (101 members)
Candidates in the current race - Voting record for 108th congress
Hillary Clinton has missed 19 votes (2.8%)
John McCain has missed 12 votes (1.8%)
6.3% Democratic (48 members) 2.0% Republican (51 members) 3.7% Independent (1 member)
4.1% All Members (100 members)
Candidates in the current race - Voting record for 107th congress
John McCain has missed 33 votes (5.2%)
Hillary Clinton has missed 5 votes (.8%)
1.8% Democratic (50 members) 3.2% Republican (53 members) 5.9% Independent (2 members)
2.5% All Members(105 members)
Candidates in the current race - Voting record for 106th congress
John McCain has missed 198 votes (29.5%) - Might have been cancer treatment?
2.5% Democratic (46 members) 2.4% Republican (56 members) 2.4% All Members (102 members)
Candidates in the current race - Voting record for 105th congress
John McCain has missed 20 votes (3.3%)
2.3% Democratic(45 members) 1.6% Republican (55 members) 1.9% All Members(100 members)
Candidates in the current race - Voting record for 104th congress
John McCain has missed 31 votes (3.4%)
1.9% Democratic (48 members) 1.9% Republican (55 members) 1.9% All Members (103 members)
Candidates in the current race - Voting record for 103th congress
John McCain has missed 35 votes (4.8%)
2.4%Democratic (57 members) 3.0% Republican (45 members) 2.7% All Members (102 members)

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2552051
What got Carter elected was left over from the sleazy Watergate scandal connection party and a economy suffering from inflation and increasing unemployment. Similar to where we are today, I agree. So we are once again left with two democrats right now to choose from.. The main difference with Carter is his inabilities to unite people for the good of the country. History will write the Bush legacy, it will be another let down, like the one that got Carter elected. Hopefully it will be better than the last eight years - A chance I am willing to take on the next 4, if I don't like the outcome, I'll vote different for the next 4... Papa Bush was a one-timer too, but Ford was a 3/4 timer....
Carter took a bad situation and turned it into a complete train wreck. He had everybody behind him until his half chicken in every pot speech. I only voted for George thge first once myself. Despite having Ross for a standard bearer I really liked the Reform party.

 

[zman1]

An example of key issue votes for 3/14/08. All three were present that day for voting.
Obama and Clinton voted on all 6, McCain chose to only vote on 2 of the 6. This Congress can be hard to judge since they are all campaigning and may not be there for voting.
However, if your present and only vote on a couple..

1. Vote 85: S CON RES 70:
2. Vote 84: S CON RES 70:
3. Vote 83: S CON RES 70:
4. Vote 82: S CON RES 70:
5. Vote 81: S CON RES 70:
6. Vote 80: S CON RES 70:
McCainBush CLEAR LEADER in missed votes

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2552108
Shadows

another distortion....
http://obama.senate.gov/votes/
That would be the others I think you mean - You would have to actually look for theirs, but like I said before you can find theirs through the Obama link too. However, only the ones that were there since Obama went to the Senate - McCains you will have to dig deeper for the past.
I beleive my statrment covers his record plus a far left overall liberal agenda as stated . All are contrary to his mantra and platform claiming unity...my opinion. The majority of America I beleive does not stand on the far left where NObama is with his voting record and his liberal agenda. Again, for some of this you have to look at his actions and associations plus judgement..not just the Gospel according to Nobama.
Nice try though

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2551911
I'd love to be in the same room with you when "NObama" becomes our next president...your hatred for the man is rather impressive.
Anyone can do enough research on the web and cut and paste damning allegations and stories on McCain, Obama or Clinton, nothing you've provided is earth moving or surprising.
Due to the very weak candidate the GOP is bringing to the party this go around I can't wait to see what the GOP's hate machine starts to spit out against the democratic candidate, it should be very creative and largely made up. I hope the democratic candidate plays hardball, McCain will be easy pickings.
Couple of things about McCain:
Wasn't he part of the Keating Five...huge corruption scandal
Didn't he vote against MLK getting a national holiday (was he against the man or civil rights)?
Who's Vicki Iseman?

You should shovel the mountain of crap out of your own stall before complaining about the one next door. GOP Hate Machine

I guess you've not listened to the crap your fellow travelers on the left have been saying about Bush.
According to the Democrats own lead investigator at the time it should have been the Keating 3. The only reason John Glenn and John McCain were left in the investigation is the Democrap leadership didn't want it just being 3 democrats being grilled over it.
McCain, Like a lot of people was opposed to adding another Federal Holiday to the schedule for King day. Then they decided to roll washingtons and Lincolns Bdays into one (state Holiday)and give King his own which I also oppose. Not the Holiday but singling out King. There were many others that made the same ultimate sacrifice King did for that cause. Too many other great leaders in the history of this country for any single one to be held above the others. Feel the same way about the federal holiday

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2552272
You should shovel the mountain of crap out of your own stall before complaining about the one next door. GOP Hate Machine

I guess you've not listened to the crap your fellow travelers on the left have been saying about Bush.
I do not believe I have used the words I hate NObama, or wished him physical harm are any health issues. I have called him ..in no particular order of importance...a racist, supporter of racism, fake, fraud, tap dancer, dog and pony show and probably a few more.
COntrast that with the moveon.org website and NObama endorser which celebrated the fact that SNow has/had cancer as an example. Why would anyone celebrate the fact a Press Sec has cancer?
What I have brought here is information regarding NObama and his record, judgement and associations since he is an unknown to many. Most is contrary to his mantra which makes his supporters feel uneasy. That's somehow not fair game pointing out his church also printed the Hamas manifesto. His ties to Ayers a domestic terrorist...ummm... best not mention that. It's off limits to point to the socialists ties...and terrorist support he is receiving. It's a big no-no to point out in his own words...he described whites as "crackers". Folks supporitg NObama said there was no evidence at all regarding Nobama and racism and/or racist remarks...yet he used this slur in his book.
I've been called a hater and racist on this thread.....I expected it as I hold back no punches.
If I'm going to make some strong remarks regarding Nobama being a racist and/or at a minumum a supporter of same...I expect the heat will come.
NOt a problem for me...I stand by my opinion.

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2549827
Yeah, and the weatherman is always right too.

Yeah - 30k to 70k was the guess, pretty narrow range - 80k. Never fear, the March numbers will be revised in April too after the shock is gone. They would do better by a SWAG of 1 to 200k ,that way they would be considered dead on

The next 3 month's won't be good with all the airlines filing for bankruptcy and the high tech layoffs announced. The technology companies won't show for a few months because of the WARN act... Maybe the pilots could retrain for service industry jobs too?
And it's Weatherperson

 

[gonefishcrazy]

I was talking to Howie Klein a couple of day ago about the anniversary of MLK’s “I Have A Dream I remembered that McCain voted against the proposed national holiday back in 1983.
In a Feb. 9 “Hardball” interview with Chris Matthews, McCain compared his evolution to that of one of his political heroes, former Arizona Sen. Barry Goldwater. “I believe that Barry Goldwater, to start with, regretted his vote on the 1964 Civil Rights Act,” McCain said. “I think that Barry grew, like all of us grow and evolve. In 1983, when I was brand-new in the Congress, I voted against the recognition of Dr. Martin Luther King. That was a mistake, OK? And later I had the chance to … help fight for … the recognition of Dr. Martin Luther King as a holiday in my state.”
Just think about the fact that he voted against the holiday to begin with. What does that tell you about him and his views of race in America? Why did it matter to him that he was brand spanking new to Congress when he denied MLK his rightful day of celebration? He brings up Goldwater in 64 as some sort of wingnut justification. Well, he had almost twenty years to think about it by then and he still voted against MLK day. I’m glad Sam Stein caught this too and wrote a good piece on it.
In 1983, McCain voted against passing a bill to designate the third Monday of every January as a federal holiday in honor of King. Four years later, then-Arizona Governor Evan Mecham rescinded Martin Luther King Day as a state holiday, saying it had been established through an illegal executive order by his Democratic predecessor.
McCain said he thought Mecham was correct in his decision.
Two years after that, McCain’s viewpoint began to change, but only gradually. In 1989, he urged lawmakers to make Martin Luther King Jr. day a state holiday, but said he was “still opposed to another federal holiday.”

 

[1journeyman]

*Interesting that McAin was at the MLK remembrance ceremony. Where was Obama?
*McCain will spend more than Obama????
*GOP Hate Machine?
*No matter how many votes McCain misses, I've yet to hear him say, MULTIPLE times, "Wait, I didn't meant to vote like that" after the vote count is done, like Obama in the Il. Senate...
*I've yet to see McCain hire an apparent apologist for Hamas to be one of his advisors.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2551911
I'd love to be in the same room with you when "NObama" becomes our next president...your hatred for the man is rather impressive.

Should Nobama make the general election and get enough electoral votes, I'll support the results. Fast forward to the Nobama presidnecy...SHould he push his far left liberal aganda...I will contact my representatives in congress to vote against such measures. I will be critical when I believe necessary..and supportive if I agree. If Nobama supports postions that I also do...I will contact my representatives and urge them to vote for these measures.
Through time, Nobama as president could earn my respect....but he has to do more with action...not just words. I do beleive it unlikely for him to be elected based on his far left record and agenda...it is possible.
I do not wish him harm as president and/or as a candidate. I may not respect the individual holding the office...but I do respect the office. When I can agree with Nobama on issues I will.
If elected president, Nobama will have at least 4 years to prove my opinion of him wrong...and the same amount of time to earn my repect by undoing his past "wrongs".

 

[reefraff]

I don't have any problem with race but I don't buy into political correctness either. When Obama beat Hillary I figured great, anyone but Clinton II. Back then Rudy still looked like a lock for the Republican slot so I was going to support the independant ticket Unity 08 was trying to put together because I aint a big fan of Giuliani and figured there wasn't a huge difference between he and Obama. I could care less what race Obama is from, I bought into the centrist hype about him. Then I started looking at his record. WRONG!!!
I could maybe vote for Harold Ford. I think he is a pretty decent guy and his politics are at least tolerable, I really am not that far right except for fiscal policy and as much as I dislike to admit this I think there is going to have to be a black president before we can really turn the corner on race in this country. Now I would rather vote for Michael steel and would love to vote for JC

I hate his politics but I find Nobama (had to throw that in

) likable but it is very hard to get past the church thing. Maybe he really doesn't agree with the stuff the church and wright were promoting. I think it is pretty evident he first became involved in that church to help with his activism. Wright sucked him in and led him to Christ. OK, thats cool.
But it's just not believable that he never at least heard about the controversial things the pastor said. In that case he used horrific judgement allowing that man to baptize his children or to put them in the position to hear some of the things he said in his sermons. In SoCal Chuck Smith is a pretty well known pastor. I have never seen him preach but in one sermon he predicted the second coming. Heard about that because it was pretty controversial, whether you agreed with him or not it got talked about. There is just no way the stuff wright was saying wasn't a topic of discussion among his flock and the religious community in general in the local area.
I am done with the race issue on this because like I posted before it isn't going to prevent him from being elected. I am going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and just say he used really bad judgement. Maybe he just has a misplaced loyalty for the guy who saved him.
On to more important issues. He don't get no pass for his political sins