OT: Latest crop circle. Does this means something out there.

fishman830

Active Member
well this doesnt have much to do with the topic at hand but heres my theory on the univers :)
~My theory on the universe
We start with the "Big Bang" supposedly it was... the start of the universe, true... but perhaps it is a bit more. Perhaps it is the beginning of another universe the predecessor of the previous. The universe is truly a large expanse, but how can something go on forever? Maybe it is how it is perceived. It could be just that like the earth, a sphere and when you get to the end, it could be a network of wormholes and bring to you the counter side. This can all be answered with a glass of water. You take a glass of water, any size and make a ripple, it goes to the edge and comes back to the center... what seems to be only a few times, but if you had constant motion and a frictionless environment. Like space it would be an ongoing thing. The "big bang" could have been the beginning of the end of the beginning in an on going circle. No end point can truly be defined.
 

fishman830

Active Member
oh yeah and einsteins theory of relitivity approves of this, everything is relative, you break down to teh smallest thing.. an atom the building block of anything and oyu just upsacel it to the universe itself everythign is circular.. a circle
 

timsedwards

Active Member
Science is only as clever as the person who thought of it.
In 1491 we KNEW the world was flat, in 100AD we KNEW the world stopped at the sahara desert, in 1000AD we KNEW we couldnt fly. All im saying is that things like the BIG BANG THEORY, are only theory. Also if any of it were the case, if God IS God, then he can prove any one of them wrong in the blinking of a second.
The God being merciful bit on those who have not heard the word I think is more doctrine than scripture, but im at university today, ill pick the brains on someone who does like the original sin argument!
I think existence must have an end as it has had a beginning, refer to St Thomas Aquinas and his Cosmological argument on the existence of God, or the 'first cause' argument. Mackie and Bertrand Russel have also contributed to this very wel.
Tim.
 

naturelover

Member
I agree GOD is GOD and there is only one GOD.
Here is a bit more detail on what my thinking was. I will put down in points and you could see what I am trying to explain. Trust me I am hindu but yet I can point out some about christianity. The reason I am doing is because I prefer understanding more.
Bible says
1. Everyone born has a chance to get to know God.(Bible)
2. There are people who never knew christianity existed.(Fact)
3. Adam and Eve are sinners. So we all born sinners(Bible and logic.)
If a baby born is white then its parents must be white like if a baby born was black or some other color. Goes back to logic((True*True=True)) ( Adam*Eve=we (sin*sin=sin)(true*true=true))
4. God has mercy on people who didn't do sin. (Don't fit in at all)
5. What might be sin for you might not be sin for another. So how do you define Sin.
6. Only way to heaven is through jesus. (Point 2*point1 =False*True=False)
7. No sinners in heaven(Bible)
I hope you get the Idea of my logic on what I am trying to say.
I agree on god is god, then who are we to tell people not know christianity goes to hell, since they didn't know about it at all. If you don't know about christianity at all then you cannot be punished for it. If bible says everyone has a chance to get to know god and yet someone lived without knowing christianity, what to beleive?.
Edit: point 4 seems not clear.
4. God has mercy on people who didn't do sin. yet we all are born sinners. only way to get rid of your sin is by salvation/saving( if you agree on we are desentens of adam and eve then you must agree on being sinner). If you agree on sinners then you must agree on no one goes to heaven with sin. If you agree on it (no one goes to heaven with sin) then you have to agree on only way to get rid of your sin is by salvation. If you agree on salvation then you have to agree on every one get a chance to get to know god. If all falls into place and there are people who didn't know christianity exists then there is a problem somewhere right?.
 

krishj39

Active Member
Great thread guys. I love being able to read about all of your thoughts on religion, and the para-normal.
I have many thoughts on the topic, but I'll keep most of them to myself for now. I just wanted to make a few comments that should share some light a few of the debated topics. I work at a mission agency, meaning our purpose is to send and support missionaries overseas. Just last Friday, we had some missionaries return from a middle east country. While they were in the home office (where I work), they were given a time to share with all of us how their ministry had been going over the last few years. They explained that there were a number of people that were coming to Christ, however, it wasn't through the missionaries. Many were coming to Christ after having dreams and visions about Him. Now, understand that the mission agency I am with is not charasmatic, and is very conservative. However, God is not bound by culture, and in the Middle East, dreams are a powerful and recognized way of experiencing God. As such, God uses dreams there much more than He does here. The Bible says, "Seek and you will find." So, at least in some cases, it is very clear that even people who have not had the opportunity to hear about Christ from another person, have still been given the opportunity to meet Him and know about Him. Another story is of a missionary that traveled far into the wilderness in South America to witness to a hermit. The village he came from had largely come to know Christ through the missionary, however, this hermit left the village long before any of them had every heard of Christ. Anyway, when the missionary found the hermit and told him about Christ, the hermit explained that he already knew about Him, and that Christ had appeared to Him several times. In essence, the only thing the missionary was able to tell the hermit about was that the God he had met was named Jesus. There are countless stories of this kind, but most of them don't get communicated here in the US because they sound so far-fetched. Even I, who believes in an all-powerful God who wants more than anything for us to know Him, have a hard time believing these sorts of stories. But, when I hear these stories from first and second hand accounts, how can I not believe? These religious experiences by people who have never heard of Jesus give credibility that all will be held accountable by God. I believe that we all are born sinners, and that we are all born with an intense desire to find and worship God. We spend our lives trying to find Him, and often people end up worship the wrong god. Sometimes they turn to the wrong religion, or settle for worshipping something finite (though they wouldn't admit they are making it their god). This would include being controlled by things like: money, success, relationships, alcohol, drugs, ---, and the list goes on and on. Many of these things are good things, but they can not effectively replace our need for the true God. All these things are an attempt to fill the void that only God can fill (this is referred to as the "God-shaped vaccuum"). The problem is that most seek for a god that suites their needs. True Christianity is not the religion for these people, as it is all about "dying to self." (Gal 2:20) We all want to know God, but we want it to be on our terms, essentially we want to be god (this is the most basic definition of sin).
Fishman, you are right, believing in God really does come down to a theory, as it can not be proven to the masses (yet, that day will come, when Christ returns, but that too is my belief, not fact). What I find annoying is that those who do not believe in God, but instead the religion of Evolution, and secular humanism, or athesism (yes, athesism IS a religion) refuse to admit their beliefs also come down to faith, and are also theory. The Big Bang is also only theory, and essentially requires believing that the universe is eternal, and basically the universe itself is god. However, these religions and theories are taught and treated as fact. In school, evolution is the basis for much of the science taught. It is taught as a fact, not as a theory. There is so much debate about separation of church and state, and while Evolution and its corresponding beliefs may not have a church, they are certainly a religion. Evolution/Big Bang/etc requires just as much faith as believing in God. I, for one, think it takes too much faith to believe in evolution, that all this happened without divine intervention. I can't look around at the world and swallow the theory that all this came from nothing, and by complete chance. Therefore, my only option is to believe that God must exist (this is called the Cosmological Argument which was popularized by Thomas Aquinas in the 1200s). The question then, isn't "is there a God?" But, "who is God?"
 

oregonbud

Member
Sorry to take this thing OT once again - I am not trying to hijack the thread just had a quick question for timsedwards or anyone else versed in hebrew, etc. since I don't really know anyone on a personal level to ask, I figured I would ask here. Sorry :)
I am currently reading an article by a person who is claiming that "myrrh" which is referenced in the bible several times, this author claims that "myrrh" is the term for marijuana, and uses several examples of Jesus using the herb, as well as several others in the bible. I have always been under the impression that myrrh was a type of tree resin - any facts on this? I would love to refute this guy, not because I do not believe that cannabis was consumed during biblical times, but rather because he seems to make a lot of blanket statements that he states as fact, calls himself a saint, claims to have had conversations with god regarding cannibis, etc. Misinformation is never a good way to spread your message:)
Thanks
 

timsedwards

Active Member
Amen brother, that was extremely well put.
fishman - I can be sure as sure as I can ever be about anything, now that may not be enough proof for you. Let me tell you this, God will not come down and say "hi im God please worship me" - the gift of worship is one of faith - faith cannot be proven by definition. When Jesus does return it will be too late for the non-believers. Im not one to do end of the world sermons, but if you look in the book of revelation, you will see many striking resemblances between the end times prophecised and the book. The way I look at it is this: If i were God and I maintained the values of free will, how on earth could I have made myself more obvious than God already has?!? He sent his son, gave us the inspiration to write the Bible, even talks to us who believe and heals us through the power of the Holy Spirit. I tried not to make this faith argument rather academic but couldnt help myself :D
naturelover...I still think you are missing my point a little
then who are we to tell people not know christianity goes to hell, since they didn't know about it at all. If you don't know about christianity at all then you cannot be punished for it
its not so much as by not knowing Christ you are in sin, people who know christ are in sin, most of us are in sin. The fact is Jesus saves. Someone who has never known Christ (take the tribeman in Africa), if he has sinned (adultery/murder/theft/false witness etc) then he is not going to heaven. Just as I wouldnt if I did those, but luckily for me I have heard of Christ and he saves me. Yes, its frustrating that he hasnt heard of Christ, but who's fault is that? Ours! We are told to evangelise and make disciples of all nations, so it is OUR shortcoming! This is why the need is so desperate.
Tim.
 

oregonbud

Member
Cool thanks - no hurry though - if you need specific references to help with translation-meaning, I can provide them.
 

naturelover

Member
its not so much as by not knowing Christ you are in sin, people who know christ are in sin. if he has sinned (adultery/murder/theft/false witness etc) then he is not going to heaven. I have heard of Christ and he saves me. Yes, its frustrating that he hasnt heard of Christ, but who's fault is that?Ours!

I know every one has sin. I did understood your point that's why I put it in points to show you my thinking. you have heard of Christ as well as i have. But the point is those who didn't knew Christ and passed away already or still living somewhere in jungle without knowing there are other human race and Christ.
How can point 1. Everyone born has a chance to get to know God.(Bible) and the above co-exist.
Especially when you agree there are people who has not heard about Christ yet bible says everyone gets one chance to follow or not to follow.
 

overanalyzer

Active Member
Some of the logic in this thread is astounding ....
Back to crop circles.... read the Area 51 series by Robert Doherty. Takes all teh mystical unknown stuff and creates a believealbe alien sci-fi story.
As for religion I thought there was only one real Golden Rule according to the NT: Love you neighbor as you love yourself ....
which is a truth found stated in many ways from unbeilevalable paganistic belief systems all the way through hyper conservative Christian faiths, the Muslim world, in the Rig Veda , and part of the documents of belief for the Unitiarian church (i think ... not remembering the Unitraian faith very well).
Anyhow - enjoyed reading .... now I must go buy some tin foil ..... I think my clownfish are the leading edge of martian invasion and they have been reading my thoughts ....
 

naturelover

Member
Tim
I am not expert in christianity, but I do know bible says that every one gets one chance to follow god.
You already mentioned that there are people who did not know about Christ. So which is right. Go through those points again and try to see the thought.
Avoid this part....then who are we to tell people not know christianity goes to hell, since they didn't know about it at all. If you don't know about christianity at all then you cannot be punished for it. If bible says everyone has a chance to get to know god and yet someone lived without knowing christianity, what to beleive?.
 

naturelover

Member
from overanalyzer....
love your neighbour like you love your self
Especially when we all are born with sin comes greed, pride and so on.
This makes us not to love anyone like we love our self.
If we follow what you are saying then there would be no different relegion.
But there are many relegions created from Christianity to forfill everyones beleive and some don't like others. I don't even know what I am trying to say here..:D I hope you get the point..
 

naturelover

Member
krishj39
Many were coming to Christ after having dreams and visions about Him
If this is true then why is it mentioned in bible that spread the word. Why not everyone have dreams and follow the path since everyone get a chance.
We are skeptisk when it comes to people having vision and telling that they have met Christ or even those who have stigmata.
 

timsedwards

Active Member
Hi there,
Notice this discussion gets deeper and deeper as it progresses! :D
If there is anything you would like to know on Stigmata Im a bit of an expert in that area.
Naturelover, this isnt a coppout, I will try my best but I am not the world's best preacher or teacher (yet anyway! :p), but we must remember we are humans and will never fully understand the wisdom of God, and that is true in every belief. I dont fully understand some of the things you are saying, they also confuse me, but because I have faith I can pray that I will be enlightened, if indeed I need enlightening and it will serve a purpose.
oregon bud:
Hey! Nope your friend is very very wrong. Myrrh is a Hebrew word, used in Genesis 37:25. It is most probably to be identified with labdanum, an aromatic gum (Psalm 45:8, Proverbs 7:17, Song of Solomon 3:6, 5:13) and comes from the leaves of cistus rose. Its oil used to be used in beauty treatments (Esther 2:12) and sometimes mixed with wine to relieve pain (Mark 15:23). Its primarily a gift for a king.
Hope this helps!
Tim.
 

overanalyzer

Active Member

Originally posted by NatureLover
If we follow what you are saying then there would be no different relegion.

is that wrong or evil or bad in some way?? all religion has some very basic tenants in their philosophical foundations .... so who's to say that each religion is wrong or right??
Would you be comfortable telling a rabbi that since he does not believe in Christ that he is going to hell?? Or telling a Christian that he does not follow the Will of Allah therefore he is an infidel and going to hell??
Lastly - doesn't science and the Big Bang theory coincide nicely with a lot of religious theory and belief? Did someone have to pull the trigger to start the big bang??
 
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