OT: war in Iraq
- Thread starter sea goblin
- Start date
foulbrew
Member
Interesting thread...
I'm not much of a fan of gray. Most things to me are black and white, right or wrong, good or evil. I tend to find that folks try to gray up the issue when they have ulterior motives - politicians are excellent at this. To me the facts speak for themselves, Saddam has implemented genocidal polocies, he has invaded neighboring countries, he has used ----, torture and murder to subdue his people. These are facts and no one disputes them.
It amazes me their is even a debate on the matter. Stopping this man dead is the right thing to do. If we don't we are complicit in his actions. We are the only country that can do this and as such have the moral obligation to do it.
You can say it's about oil - it isn't. Nobody for a second believes the USA is going to annex those fields. More over, a war will allow the Iraqi people to benefit fully from that oil for the first time.
You can say it's about the enonomy - it isn't. This war risks the stability of the whole region and as such puts the world economy at risk.
You can say we should deal with Korea first - why, when dealing with Iraq effectively will create an excellent environment for 'Negotiating' with the Koreans.
You can say we need UN support - I am not sure who started this one but its the worst. I never voted for and we never elected the security council of the UN, why would we turn over control of our military to them? Why would we let our foriegn polocy be dictated by them? Why would we sit by and watch Sadistic Saddam do his stuff because they say so?
You can say inocents will die - yes on both sides, but some things are worth dying for.
Bottom line : It is the right thing to do - for them, for us and for the world.
I'm not much of a fan of gray. Most things to me are black and white, right or wrong, good or evil. I tend to find that folks try to gray up the issue when they have ulterior motives - politicians are excellent at this. To me the facts speak for themselves, Saddam has implemented genocidal polocies, he has invaded neighboring countries, he has used ----, torture and murder to subdue his people. These are facts and no one disputes them.
It amazes me their is even a debate on the matter. Stopping this man dead is the right thing to do. If we don't we are complicit in his actions. We are the only country that can do this and as such have the moral obligation to do it.
You can say it's about oil - it isn't. Nobody for a second believes the USA is going to annex those fields. More over, a war will allow the Iraqi people to benefit fully from that oil for the first time.
You can say it's about the enonomy - it isn't. This war risks the stability of the whole region and as such puts the world economy at risk.
You can say we should deal with Korea first - why, when dealing with Iraq effectively will create an excellent environment for 'Negotiating' with the Koreans.
You can say we need UN support - I am not sure who started this one but its the worst. I never voted for and we never elected the security council of the UN, why would we turn over control of our military to them? Why would we let our foriegn polocy be dictated by them? Why would we sit by and watch Sadistic Saddam do his stuff because they say so?
You can say inocents will die - yes on both sides, but some things are worth dying for.
Bottom line : It is the right thing to do - for them, for us and for the world.
tigerlover
Member
I'm backing you wamp, but sometimes a country's gotta do what a country's gotta do(I'm a political realist) sometimes we've gotta stand up and fight, no matter what the odds, there are some things worth fighting for, and innocent lives, any innocent life, is worth fighting for. I'd fight any day no matter what the odds, if an innocent life is at stake, whether it be a fish or a dog or a human, there's no difference to me. 
by the way, in a coming war duct tape wouldn't be of much help
by the way, in a coming war duct tape wouldn't be of much help
jrb384
Member
my food for thought. sadam is a suny muslim excuse the wrong spelling, his tribe, or suny's make up about 20% of iraq. the shiate muslims make up about 60% of the country and are loyal to the iatola of iran. and the kurds make up the final 20 or so percent.
that being said. Sadam is in power as a minority suny muslim in that nation because he is brutal.
when we oust him, who will take over? if it is a suny muslim, then they will have to be brutal as well to ensure the other tribes do not take his power.
if it is a shiate muslim, then will they side with iran? Can we afford for iran to be in control of the worlds oil? NO
if a kurd becomes ruler, it wont work either. Our big ally TURKEY has been at war with the kurds, and if they come to power, then a war with turkey will only leave us with a problem.
SO..... all things considered.... what happens when sadam is gone? atleast now they know what he is capable of and what he's up to. couple other facts, the us military has about 10 times the firepower we possessed in 1991. the war should be short and sweet with massive casulties.
anyways, those are just some points I found interesting.
jb
that being said. Sadam is in power as a minority suny muslim in that nation because he is brutal.
when we oust him, who will take over? if it is a suny muslim, then they will have to be brutal as well to ensure the other tribes do not take his power.
if it is a shiate muslim, then will they side with iran? Can we afford for iran to be in control of the worlds oil? NO
if a kurd becomes ruler, it wont work either. Our big ally TURKEY has been at war with the kurds, and if they come to power, then a war with turkey will only leave us with a problem.
SO..... all things considered.... what happens when sadam is gone? atleast now they know what he is capable of and what he's up to. couple other facts, the us military has about 10 times the firepower we possessed in 1991. the war should be short and sweet with massive casulties.
anyways, those are just some points I found interesting.
jb
beanie
Member
My personal opinion is we have to go to war. This is unfortunate but I belive this is more an eggo trip for Bush since he is rather weak. But now he has talked us into a corner and If we let saddam get away like we did in desert storm no country will take us serious agian so WE need to win and fast.
bigeyedfish
Member
i am afraid i favor war. its a must in order to root out necessary evils, saddam al queda, etc. saddam should've been toast 10 years ago. we shouldnt let him do this to the world again. I blame the UN for letting so many things slide. What good is a united nations if no one stays united. i blame france and russia who hide behind their power in the security council. france has a huge investment in iraqi oil. they blame Bush for making it into a war about oil, however its them with the vested interest. germany is the same way with iraq and n. korea, their businesses sell weapon technology to these rouge countries and go unpunished.
its easy to look at BUSH and the US as a bully picking fights however who else is going to do the dirty work.
as for the internal struggle here, i personally believe it takes time for a presidents policies to kick in. Bush is still cleaning up after our useless ex-president Clinton. The economy is shaky becuase they listen too closely to the media as well as whats going on in the world.
sorry for the long post. this is a really messy and emotional topic for a saltwater board.
its easy to look at BUSH and the US as a bully picking fights however who else is going to do the dirty work.
as for the internal struggle here, i personally believe it takes time for a presidents policies to kick in. Bush is still cleaning up after our useless ex-president Clinton. The economy is shaky becuase they listen too closely to the media as well as whats going on in the world.
sorry for the long post. this is a really messy and emotional topic for a saltwater board.
sea goblin
Member
I started the post, and I forgot to put where I stand on the issue. I think that we need to get rid of Saddam, and i would prefer that we had the support of the UN, but if they keep on stalling it out I would say then we will go it alone, or with atleast a few allies like Briton.
And i have the weirdest feeling that in like a month maybe after a possible war with Iraq is over, another OT: will be started for North Korea....(OT: war with Korea)..... we will see.
Sea Goblin
And i have the weirdest feeling that in like a month maybe after a possible war with Iraq is over, another OT: will be started for North Korea....(OT: war with Korea)..... we will see.
Sea Goblin
davidsmith
Member
war will not help cause there al gonna be total loss of human life world wide riots in the muslim countries american life and for what oil please im not saying sudam is rite but war i dont thibk it is good. i went to the ny war protest it was funny
radioactive
Member
Bush is still cleaning up after our useless ex-president Clinton.
so are you saying Clinton had to clean up for the useless ex president Bush !!!!
With that said , there will be someone to clean up after every president right ? we are approaching our 2nd war with father and son , quite a coincidence . But in between that we were all enjoying vacations and lots of $$$$ ...
JMO .....
so are you saying Clinton had to clean up for the useless ex president Bush !!!!
With that said , there will be someone to clean up after every president right ? we are approaching our 2nd war with father and son , quite a coincidence . But in between that we were all enjoying vacations and lots of $$$$ ...
JMO .....
davidsmith
Member
clinton didnt have to clean up anything monica slurp it all up he was a spit shine lol
S
sebae0
Guest
saddam spelled backwards is madd ass, so i added an s, but really this guy is brutal. the recent election he won, he got 99.99 percent of the vote because it was a yes or no vote. you vote no he kills you you vote yes and you live. what a joke trying to make his people think they have a say so.
i know i know some people will say the same about our elections but atleast its not that bad..lol
i know i know some people will say the same about our elections but atleast its not that bad..lol
bigeyedfish
Member
well i could start a whole nother dem. vs. republican discussion, but lets just say, Slick Willy sat back playing with cigars instead of pulling the trigger on osama. He also made out good when all the republican initatives kicked in during his term.
Anybody wanna vote for Gore in 2004??? And yeah he did invent the internet
I think the system picked the right president, nuff said.
anybody still keep a fish tank these days?
Anybody wanna vote for Gore in 2004??? And yeah he did invent the internet
I think the system picked the right president, nuff said.
anybody still keep a fish tank these days?
radioactive
Member
skilos ---
that is my opinion , relax , deep breath ... I am not a politician and do not agree with a lot of things that happen within the organization . this is just a debate , and everyone has there own opinion , don't take it to heart .
that is my opinion , relax , deep breath ... I am not a politician and do not agree with a lot of things that happen within the organization . this is just a debate , and everyone has there own opinion , don't take it to heart .
mightyoxjuice
Member
Here is an interesting article that you should take the time to read.http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.html
radioactive
Member
He also made out good when all the republican initatives kicked in during his term.
then spend all your $$ now and help the economy recover . start with about 10,000 with SWF. com so this great bb continues . I am going to take your word and hope everyone makes some serious cash coming up when ?? next term right ? I hope so - I am due for another tank ...
best of luck to ya
big eyed fish
then spend all your $$ now and help the economy recover . start with about 10,000 with SWF. com so this great bb continues . I am going to take your word and hope everyone makes some serious cash coming up when ?? next term right ? I hope so - I am due for another tank ...
best of luck to ya
big eyed fish
mightyoxjuice
Member
The above article is from a website hosted in Europe.
causeidm
Member
Personally, I say kick his A%^. But, I think we are doing it all wrong.
First of all, we put a teriff on all chinese goods and tell them to take care of north korea and we'll remove it..boom, that threat is gone.
Then, we go to war with iraq, yes I know... war is bad, but if you remember our history lesson, war boosts the economy.. as long as we win. So out of one bad we get 2 goods, saddam is gone and economy is back in shape. However, when we go to war with Iraq, we build a U.S. embassy on every one of their oil fields and claim them ours.
First of all, we put a teriff on all chinese goods and tell them to take care of north korea and we'll remove it..boom, that threat is gone.
Then, we go to war with iraq, yes I know... war is bad, but if you remember our history lesson, war boosts the economy.. as long as we win. So out of one bad we get 2 goods, saddam is gone and economy is back in shape. However, when we go to war with Iraq, we build a U.S. embassy on every one of their oil fields and claim them ours.
radioactive
Member
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience
hmmm .. good thought .. we start fighting each other than we are not any better than Iraq ... correct ?
hmmm .. good thought .. we start fighting each other than we are not any better than Iraq ... correct ?
radioactive
Member
Personally, I say kick his A%^.i agree
But, I think we are doing it all wrong.
i agree
But, I think we are doing it all wrong.
i agree
bigeyedfish
Member
Originally posted by skilos1
are you really serious with this??? Clinton was only famous for one reason and that is because he took all the credit for what Bush did for the economy. The only reason he was popular was because people thought he was getting the economy up. He sat on his butt and watched it rise from what the president before him did. Our president now is cleaning up after what Clinton did to the military and what plans he implemented in his second term. The economy was going downhill by the time clinton was leaving. hmmmmmm.. what a coincedence........ and while we enjoy our vacations and cash.....terrorists are learning to fly planes into buildings and we dont know about it, because our intelligence funds were gutted during 8 years of clinton.
amen skilos!!
radioactive - with good interests at heart, i'm going to agree to disagree with you. as for my part, in the past year, i've bought a $30k car, a $175k townhouse, spent $3k on an aquarium only to tear it down becuase of the previously listed debt and i eat out just about every night (mainly becuase i'm lazy and cant cook). Hey I'm 23, i'm doing my part to help. I hope Bush's cuts help the rest of the country pump some money back into the economy.