OT: We caught Saddam!!!

[sammystingray]

ekclark, the reason I feel arguing about why it started is simple....the average person simply does not have the inside information to even debate with. All we have are opinions and guesses, so there isn't much reason to argue about it. Oil plays a role without a doubt, and I think most would agree on that. If you think about it, the spin they put on things isn't just for us Americans, but maybe more so for the rest of the world. It's not like they can tell just Americans the truth, and then somehow lie to other countries so it doesn't look so self-serving. We want the truth, but the "truth" could actually start a world war if we went in due to oil and our own economic reasons. The United States is the last remaining super power.....we control so many things on this planet, and if you think about it, better us than certain other countries. As much as our politicians annoy me with their scripted lies, it's hard to complain when they have put us on top. If a Saddam controlled Iraq had the firepower that America possesses, can you imagine the results?
I'm just saying that perhaps getting all the people of America into a big football huddle with our government and discussing the plans secretly about what we are doing in the world may not be feasible. I hate that we are always in the dark and lied to, but perhaps it has to be that way?? I just hope they know what they're doing.

 

[eric4usa]

The SAD SAD thing about Sadam's capture is that for some crazy reason, bush might actually get re-elected for it!!!!
How the heck does someone say in their brain:
"Wow, Sadam was captured, I think I'll re-elect an equally crazy man to run my country"??
I can't imagine a single person who voted for bush standing up now and saying "I'm happy I voted for bush" after all the insane things he's done.
Truly, without 9/11, bush would be in a much different position.
It is amazing how uneducated Americans will vote for someone based on ridiculous reasons.
Some people will vote for someone based on looks and perceived personality alone.
Crazy.

 

[overanalyzer]

Originally posted by eric4usa
The SAD SAD thing about Sadam's capture is that for some crazy reason, bush might actually get re-elected for it!!!!

I wouldn't bet on it!!!
I whole heartedly support our troops and wish they would return ASAP. Sadly the "peace" over there is far more deadly and even with Saddam captured there are still attacks and support for him and his regime.
While I don't agree with a lot of what anyone has said - the idea that we went to war over WMD is ludicrous.
If the US should be stepping into countries with evil leaders and helping establish democracies and saving people from horrible leaders then why do we not do anything in Africa?
There are dictators over there killing millions: quote:
Kabila became president of the Democratic Republic of Congo when he led forces that overthrew Joseph Mobutu in 1997. Although he does not rank in the same league as Mobutu as a dictator, Kabila’s four year rule coincided with the deaths of around 3.3 Million people in the DRC.
Check out this link: http://www.***.flinders.edu.au/globa...berts/body.htm
Instead of the US stepping in and liberating Congo one of his body guards finally shot him .....
We are spending 87 Billion to rebuild Iraq. While I agree that since we liberated the country we should get hte contracts I also think Haliburtan is billing the US in a very "profit friendly" way.
While I would like to think we did this to make the world a safer place - (which it has) - it has done nothing to ease my fears of terrorist attacks. I also shudder to think we have had over 450 American soldiers die for Oil .....

You want to do something in the war on terror: GET BIN LADEN.

 

[tru conch]

a grunts view
since only the rock and myself, as far as i know, are the only guys on the ground here, i will give ya'll my two cents worth since ive been over here for 10 months now
first off, i want to say thanks for everyone for the support, it does mean alot to us over here that the avg. citizen hasnt forgotten about us.
do i think the war in iraq is justified? yes. am i glad that saddam was caught, his two sons killed? yes. i think that the timing was off however. i think the war in afghanistan should be resolved first. (on a side note al quada has cut their funding by half to help the taliban fight us forces there, meaning its a lost cause to them and are pulling out.) i think the planning for iraq couldve gone better, but im just a team leader in charge of four guys, not JCS.
there has been comparisons to vietnam, and i dont think this is close to vietnam. granted i wasnt there, but the "freedom fighters" here arent the viet cong. w/o getting to military, they are poor fighters. the newspapers ive read report approx only 5,000 "insurgents" in iraq, which is a small number considering the population of iraq.
iraq is being rebuilt, and it will be better than before. i foresee iraq as being a real powerhouse in the middle east in a decade, as far as economy and revoulitonary political idealogy/government. mark my words, but just like aquariums, we need to let iraq mature on its own, but with our helping hands.
so all in all i know there are several differing views on this thread, but i just wanted to share my views, since im on the ground here. i am glad he is caught, but yesterday (when the locals found out he was caught) they all went nuts, it was by far the hairest day on patrol so far.
again i just want to say thanks for all of you who support the troops, and rock-semper fi buddy!

 

[lurch694u]

Here is a interesting story...
They got the wrong guy

 

[reefraff]

For whatever it's worth...
As long as Saddam was in control in Iraq we could not pull out of Saudi Arabia. US troops in the land of Mecca was a recruiting tool for terrorists.
Note the pallats of UN food found in the palaces. Iraq'a assets were going to support Saddam and his family while the others starved. Had we removed sanctions with him in control you can bet his WMD and military programs would have been built back up full tilt boogie.
WMD, Don't think he had them? Ask the Kurds about it. I have a hard time believing he obstructed weapons inspectors in 98 to the point of being bombed and again in 2002 because he had nothing to hide. Several countries intellegence agencies around the world knew he had them. Those who seek to use the missing WMD for political gain should really be asking why the intelligence agencies don't know where the weapons are now?
There is no proof of a connection between Iraq and 9/11 but there is between Iraq and the terrorists who brought down the towers. Open support of terrorism by a government should not be allowed. Taking out Saddam was a good first step and will send a signal to others.
And yes, we got the right man.

 

[chipper]

jferrier,
First let me say that I respect everyone’s opinion on this matter. I believe the reason that the Iraqi’s did not overthrow Saddam is that they were scared. For decades this man and members of his regime have terrorized and killed millions of Iraqi’s. If one person or several people go against his regime not only would he kill the people who oppose him, but their family members as well. This is what a terrorist does and obviously Saddam is one of the most skilled terrorist around. It is not a question of being armed it is a question of how important is your conviction if it cost the lives of everyone that you love. What hard evidence are you referring to? Killing and torturing millions of his own people, invading and terrorizing the people of Kuwait, and killing and torturing Gulf War soldiers isn’t enough evidence for you? The point is that he is not only a threat to his own people, but to the world and of course that means the U.S. What good could come from Saddam remaining in power? Again I respect your opinion and I am not trying to argue I just thought I would share my perspective on this issue.

 

[stillfrodo]

I have to add my 2 cents. at least Bush has the balls to stand up to the nations and terrorists that threaten us. We lost service men on the USS COLE and Clinton did nothing. we ha dnumerous tips and intelligence on Osama Bin laden and Clinton did nothing. He was to busy chasing skirt then to pursue our national interests. Bush stood up and took care of business. Sorry we had to lose American lives one soldiers life is one to many. But we needed to take a stand and enough is enough. Remember Iran and how inept President Carter was. Never again. I firmly believe that. No one else gives a crap about the US except us. So God Bless America God Bless Our Troops.

 

[me-n-my-fish]

Originally posted by sammystingray
Guys, opinions are great, but lets stay civil OK? I figured this would be closed already, but you guys are doing very well at keeping this hot topic decently civil so far. It's very appreciated by members, mods, and the admin I'm sure.
Then i guess i better stay out of it. I don't belive that reeferdude has any family or friends in the military getting shot at everyday.
But, lets just say for a minute that sadam did not have WMD (i belive he does, hell he even gassed his own people), being one of the most oil rich countrys in the world, with something like 80 bill to blow every year, do you really want somebody like saddam buying, lets say a nuke from russia?? No reeferdude, being that you read books and the like, you did run across the part were russia sold arms to Iraq, right? Or the stock piles of russian weapons that have been turned up in iraq right? Now, if you were a mad man with millions to spend on your most hated enemy, and could buy a nuke, do you think it would be that hard to get into the USA?
I for one and very glad that they got him. What should they do with him? Bring him down here, to south alabama, we have our own kinda justise (sp).
But, we are not all enlighted like some people.
Let me know when you want that plane ticket

 

[lurch694u]

you did run across the part were russia sold arms to Iraq, right?
Did you run across the part were the US sold chemical/biological weapons to Iraq?

 

[me-n-my-fish]

No, to tell you the honest truth, i did not. Do you have a souce? Perhaps a link to a worthy news site? Not saying that it is not true, but i find that very hard to belive....
...but if it is true, that would really piss me off....

 

[lurch694u]

Here you go...
Washington Post
CBS News
Commondreams

 

[reeferdude]

Originally posted by eric4usa
The SAD SAD thing about Sadam's capture is that for some crazy reason, bush might actually get re-elected for it!!!!
How the heck does someone say in their brain:
"Wow, Sadam was captured, I think I'll re-elect an equally crazy man to run my country"??
I can't imagine a single person who voted for bush standing up now and saying "I'm happy I voted for bush" after all the insane things he's done.
Truly, without 9/11, bush would be in a much different position.
It is amazing how uneducated Americans will vote for someone based on ridiculous reasons.
Some people will vote for someone based on looks and perceived personality alone.
Crazy.
Finally, a voice of reason!
Originally posted by stillfrodo
at least Bush has the balls to stand up to the nations and terrorists that threaten us.
When did the Saddam ever threaten us? So I guess he doesn’t have the balls to invade North Korea and they really did threaten us! I am with you about the terrorism thing but Clinton did order massive cruise missile attacks against terrorist bases all over the middle east and Africa.
I would be willing to put money down that this is what will happen if the US pulls out of Iraq. First they will publicly execute Saddam, this is a big deal in the fundamentalist Muslim world. Next the Shiite Muslims (same as the Iranians) will take over the country by force and establish a strict Muslim government. High ranking Russian military officials sold off arms to anyone who had the cash, not the Russian Government. The only thing I have ever run across about anyone selling any WMD anything to Iraq was the French selling them a nuclear reactor back in the early 90s that was sabotaged by the Israelis in transit. Most countries have at one time bought Russian arms but 100 crates of AK-47s and a nuclear warhead are two totally different things. And as for a source I cant think of any but back during the Iran hostage thing Iran and Iraq were at war. So naturally we wanted to see the Iranians defeated so on paper we gave the Iraqis money and under the table we gave them weapons. I thought that was common knowledge but then again me and the rest of the liberals are just enlightened like that.

 

[fshhub]

Originally posted by sammystingray
I'm just saying that perhaps getting all the people of America into a big football huddle with our government and discussing the plans secretly about what we are doing in the world may not be feasible. I hate that we are always in the dark and lied to, but perhaps it has to be that way?? I just hope they know what they're doing.

sorry but this would be nice but also impossible, be cause of too many loudmouths in this country. I will not name any, but I know i can think of a few that have been here(no, not my current debating companion reeferdude either) Who would DEFINITELY spout off in the wrong places. Hell with us not telling everyone everything, look what happpened. we were still ambushed! What do you think it would be like if all of our great nation knew, with so many people? We have: braggers, loose lips, big mouths, gossips, bleeding hearts, sabateurs, and sympathizers. and that only scratches the surface of our potential security problems, let us not forget we also have iraqis here too(both supporters and refugees).
OUR MEDIA alone is a major issue here, although it is nice to get the story out and be first, not letting everyone know has certain merits and saves many lives. I cannot think of too many reporters who, if they knew we were gonna storm bin ladens camp at noon tomoorow, would not have it all over world news. Thus telling him that we aknow where he is and that we are coming so that he can either re-disappear or be ready and claim more american lives, OR BOTH. that is just one minor example, how about if it involved the lives of millions? the tables could greatly turn against us and our troops., costing many lives even that of innocent civilians<possibly your relatives>
Sorry to spout, but I feel not knowing all in matters of security is a good thing and saves many lives.

 

[me-n-my-fish]

Originally posted by Lurch694u
Here you go...
Washington Post
CBS News
Commondreams
I can honesty say i did not know of that. But somehow i knew that the commondreams.org would be in the list. WIth the post running a close second. They like anything that will make Bush look bad. But the CBS, even thou they sway to that side a little, they are more "Worthy" of a link. I stand informed.

I thought that was common knowledge but then again me and the rest of the liberals are just enlightened like that.
Done with you, before i get banned. But one last thing. Instead of just bumpin your gums, be like Lurch694u, and show some facts to back up your stance.

 

[fshhub]

well, in thinking about it
yes we did sell him the materials, AT ONE TIME. but that is almost as relevant as it is irrelevant. This had taken place back in the 70s and 80s. Just as if my grandfather had sold a man a milling machine 30 some years ago, and then recently this man makes a gun wiht it and goes ona killing spree. Does this mean he and my family are wrong or even the reason for it? NO. Back then, Sadam was an ally and it was supposed to be for research and defense, not suppression and tyrany. And to top it all off, 12 yrs ago he was ordered by the UN to decist and destroy any of such weapons, because of his motives and actions. Did he? NO. Should action be taken to prevent him using such weapons, now that we know he has them(or has not proven disposal of materials we KNOW he has)? YES. Especially when he refuses UN orders to be inspected, and plays games with our inspectors. And restricts their access, as if hiding them. We need to remember that we are dealing with a man that not only has the equipment but the desire to use it. Just as a dog has teeth and is not affraid to use it, we need to take action and use precautionary measures to insure no one gets hurt by them.

 

[fshhub]

well said skilos, just because one may think he is bad does not mean..........
same goes for Sadam, and thisis why he needs to be trialed and punished in a neutral country. In his own country, I can almost guarentee he would go free or at best be imprisoned with more amentieis than I could ever want. The opposite stands for here, he would certainly not recieve an just and impartial trial, however his punishment woudl not fit his crimes either.

 

[overanalyzer]

Originally posted by fshhub
well said skilos, just because one may think he is bad does not mean..........
same goes for Sadam, and thisis why he needs to be trialed and punished in a neutral country. In his own country, I can almost guarentee he would go free or at best be imprisoned with more amentieis than I could ever want. The opposite stands for here, he would certainly not recieve an just and impartial trial, however his punishment woudl not fit his crimes either.
The choice for presidents lately has been nothing but the lesser of two evils ... sadly. Men like George Washington who persevered and made hard choices must be rolling over in their revolutionary graves!
Sadam won't get tried here but will be tried in Iraq and if that happens the muslim world will have a "sham of a trial" that was conducted "by a puppet of the United States Military" and be cause for retritubtion. Or he will be tried in a neutral country and jailed and killed ....of course the US will get blamed for that too!
Heck the Marines should've tossed the grenade in like it is SOP to clear the hole and then we'd still be identifying body parts.
Lastly - it saddens me to see people spout off and then when someone offers an intellgent rebuttal they get label as a liberal panty waist (my own words here). Folks - Rush Limbau is not a factual source (he is a drug user and in his own words drug users are scum of the earth). Extremely liberal progandist web sites with one person's opinion are not factual sources ... this issue has been debated before and and during the actual war and now in the peace time in Iraq. There are a lot of credible websites out there with information .... use the internet responsibly and read and become educated .... maybe then we will get a leader who does not pander to special interests, invents the internet, chases skirts, has issues stringing together a co-herent paragraph. Think, challenge and question - do not accept & do not conform. (I'm not a conspiracy nut - really - just tired of people spouting off).

 

[wrassecal]

Originally posted by overanalyzer
There are a lot of credible websites out there with information .... use the internet responsibly and read and become educated ....
I question any article/opinion posted anywhere that does not list references/sources that can be verified and read for content.
I question all news put out by any media outlet.
I know from research that we can go back through recorded time and find that (some) allies at one time have been enemies at another. This is nothing new.
All media is propaganda I wish we could get Al Jezeera, BBC etc. on cable here so I had access to others propaganda.

 

[jferrier]

Originally posted by Reeferdude
Vietnam-Fought to stop the spread of Communism in southeast Asia, Look up the Domino Theory.
Korea-Again to stop the evil reds from infection more of asia
Philippines-Just a strategic plot of land that we didn’t want the Japs to have
All of Europe-Great Britain was our ally and we had to join the war on both fronts because of the public outcry after Pearl Harbor
South America-They had grow drugs and drugs are bad, more than once the CIA helped overthrow DEMOCRATICLY ELECTED leaders in south america. (P.S. Guam is an island in the pacific not part of south america)
Iran-They took US hostages and the way we helped out there was to aid Iraq because they were "The lesser of two evils"
Russia-They have the largest number of WMDs (The same kind ol' G.W. still hasn’t found) and a destabilization of their government would have lead to the sale of these WMDs to our enemies.
Vietnam- did we stop communism? We may have contributed to its decline.
Korea- Still divided- N. Korea problems are still here 45 years later.
Europe- We helped stop Hitler, agreed, but it took a few years before we finally got involved.
Iran- We replaced the Shah, got a worse one.
Russia- We aided and empowered Bin Laden in Afghanistan against the Soviets,and Iraq against Iran during their war, and China against Japan (before Pearl Harbor which some view as a "pre-emptive military attack". I don't have to tell you what they later did to us.
We overthrew the ELECTED government of Chile because we thought it was to similar to communism in 1973.
Where were we when Pakistan was killing thousands of Bangledeshies, or in Sierra Leone when area gang leaders were cutting hands and feet of women and children. We weren't there because it didn't effect our interests.
We don't always go to war to "free a people". We try and control the world around us to our benefit and other countries hate us for it, and we can't understand why. Maybe we war because at heart its really survival of the fittest, and maybe that will never change.