Please don't vote for McCain

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2474787
This is why we need gun control, take the guns out of basic peoples hands, because they will be vigilanties.
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=48444
Are you really saying we CANNOT defend our own homes?
Since when is defending your life being a vigilante?
Let's get the definition:
vig·i·lan·te (vj-lnt)
n.
1. One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands.
2. A member of a vigilance committee.
Um, this man was not "taking law enforcement into his own hands". He was defending his life. Yes, if he was following these "young men" and saw them break inot the house and shot them that would be the definition of "vigilante". Self defense is not.
Are you being sarcastic, or defending thugs attempting to kill an elderly man?
We should be able to defend our homes from thugs, and brought to task when we do not.
Smokey TaylorThe PC Free Zone is reporting that an 80-year-old retired Green Beret has been tried by his peers after shooting an intruder in his Knoxville, Tennessee home. He is the oldest member of Chapter XXXIII of the Special Forces Association.
BREVARD, Jan. 19, 2008 Retired Army Green Beret Smokey Taylor got his court martial this weekend and came away feeling good about it.
Taylor, at age 80 the oldest member of Chapter XXXIII of the Special Forces Association, was on trial by his peers under the charge of failing to use a weapon of sufficient caliber in the shooting of an intruder at his home in Knoxville, TN, in December.
The entire affair, of course, was very much tongue in cheek. Taylor had been awakened in the early morning hours of Dec. 17, 2007, when an intruder broke into his home. He investigated the noises with one of his many weapons in hand.
When the intruder threatened him with a knife, Taylor warned him, then brought his .22 caliber pistol to bear and shot him right between the eyes.
That boy had the hardest head Ive ever seen, Taylor said after his trial. The bullet bounced right off. The impact knocked the would-be thief down momentarily. He crawled out of the room then got up and ran out the door and down the street. Knoxville police apprehended him a few blocks away and he now awaits trial in the Knox County jail.
The charges against Taylor were considered to be serious. He is a retired Special Forces Weapons Sergeant with extensive combat experience during the wars in Korea and Vietnam.
Charges were brought against him under the premise that he should have saved the county and taxpayers the expense of a trial, said Chapter XXXIII President Bill Long of Asheville. He could have used a .45 or .38. The .22 just wasnt big enough to get the job done.
Taylors defense attorney, another retired Weapons Sergeant, disagreed. He said Taylor had done the right thing in choosing to arm himself with a .22.
If hed used a .45 or something like that the round would have gone right through the perp, the wall, the neighbors wall and possibly injured some innocent child asleep in its bed, he said. I believe the evidence shows that Smokey Taylor exercised excellent judgment in his choice of weapons. He did nothing wrong, and clearly remains to this day an excellent weapons man.
Counsel for the defense then floated a theory as to why the bullet bounced off the perps forehead.
He was victimized by old ammunition, he said, just as he was in Korea and again in Vietnam, when his units were issued ammo left over from World War II.
Taylor said nothing in his own defense, choosing instead to allow his peers to debate the matter. After the trial he said the ammunition was indeed old and added the new information that the perp had soiled his pants as he crawled out of the house.
I would have had an even worse mess to clean up if it had gone through his forehead, Taylor said. It was good for both of us that it didnt.
Following testimony from both sides, Taylor was acquitted of the charges and was given a round of applause.
Meanwhile, back in Knox County, the word is out: Dont go messing with Smokey Taylor. He just bought a whole bunch of fresh ammo.
Tribune Editor Bill Fishburne is a member of the Larry Thorne Chapter XXXIII of the Special Forces Association.
Smokey Taylor
James T “Smokey” Taylor, D-529, of Knoxville, TN and an original member of Chapter 33, has been nominated by the American Legion, Post #2, Knoxville, Tennessee, to serve as Grand Chef De Gare du Tennessee. This is an honor Smokey richly deserves
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2478631
Are you really saying we CANNOT defend our own homes?
Since when is defending your life being a vigilante?
Let's get the definition:
vig·i·lan·te (vj-lnt)
n.
1. One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands.
2. A member of a vigilance committee.
Um, this man was not "taking law enforcement into his own hands". He was defending his life. Yes, if he was following these "young men" and saw them break inot the house and shot them that would be the definition of "vigilante". Self defense is not.
Are you being sarcastic, or defending thugs attempting to kill an elderly man?
We should be able to defend our homes from thugs, and brought to task when we do not.
Smokey TaylorThe PC Free Zone is reporting that an 80-year-old retired Green Beret has been tried by his peers after shooting an intruder in his Knoxville, Tennessee home. He is the oldest member of Chapter XXXIII of the Special Forces Association.
BREVARD, Jan. 19, 2008 Retired Army Green Beret Smokey Taylor got his court martial this weekend and came away feeling good about it.
Taylor, at age 80 the oldest member of Chapter XXXIII of the Special Forces Association, was on trial by his peers under the charge of failing to use a weapon of sufficient caliber in the shooting of an intruder at his home in Knoxville, TN, in December.
The entire affair, of course, was very much tongue in cheek. Taylor had been awakened in the early morning hours of Dec. 17, 2007, when an intruder broke into his home. He investigated the noises with one of his many weapons in hand.
When the intruder threatened him with a knife, Taylor warned him, then brought his .22 caliber pistol to bear and shot him right between the eyes.
That boy had the hardest head Ive ever seen, Taylor said after his trial. The bullet bounced right off. The impact knocked the would-be thief down momentarily. He crawled out of the room then got up and ran out the door and down the street. Knoxville police apprehended him a few blocks away and he now awaits trial in the Knox County jail.
The charges against Taylor were considered to be serious. He is a retired Special Forces Weapons Sergeant with extensive combat experience during the wars in Korea and Vietnam.
Charges were brought against him under the premise that he should have saved the county and taxpayers the expense of a trial, said Chapter XXXIII President Bill Long of Asheville. He could have used a .45 or .38. The .22 just wasnt big enough to get the job done.
Taylors defense attorney, another retired Weapons Sergeant, disagreed. He said Taylor had done the right thing in choosing to arm himself with a .22.
If hed used a .45 or something like that the round would have gone right through the perp, the wall, the neighbors wall and possibly injured some innocent child asleep in its bed, he said. I believe the evidence shows that Smokey Taylor exercised excellent judgment in his choice of weapons. He did nothing wrong, and clearly remains to this day an excellent weapons man.
Counsel for the defense then floated a theory as to why the bullet bounced off the perps forehead.
He was victimized by old ammunition, he said, just as he was in Korea and again in Vietnam, when his units were issued ammo left over from World War II.
Taylor said nothing in his own defense, choosing instead to allow his peers to debate the matter. After the trial he said the ammunition was indeed old and added the new information that the perp had soiled his pants as he crawled out of the house.
I would have had an even worse mess to clean up if it had gone through his forehead, Taylor said. It was good for both of us that it didnt.
Following testimony from both sides, Taylor was acquitted of the charges and was given a round of applause.
Meanwhile, back in Knox County, the word is out: Dont go messing with Smokey Taylor. He just bought a whole bunch of fresh ammo.
Tribune Editor Bill Fishburne is a member of the Larry Thorne Chapter XXXIII of the Special Forces Association.
Smokey Taylor
James T “Smokey” Taylor, D-529, of Knoxville, TN and an original member of Chapter 33, has been nominated by the American Legion, Post #2, Knoxville, Tennessee, to serve as Grand Chef De Gare du Tennessee. This is an honor Smokey richly deserves
Sarcism is so easily lost on forums.
 

threed240

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2474482
Another poster asked me why I bother. For me, it's because I see a real evil emerging in our Nation. There is a real movement in our country to disguise the truth, re-write our history, and take our country down a road too many great nations have gone before (where they faded into obscurity).
We may never get through to the posters who debate here, but I'm not about to let misinformation suck anyone else into the abyss. This forum will not become a haven for deceptive spin. Hopefully others who read these threads will learn from the debate. The more facts we have on our side, and the more we can disprove their "facts", hopefully the more people will think twice when they go into a voting booth.
Oh, and it's fun
I love spending, on average, 30 seconds to disprove a liberal talking point with a single link.

Where is the smily face with clapping hands?
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
"We allow S. Korea and Iran to have nukes... this is more of an imminent threat."
By We you mean J. Carter. Thanks to the ground work Carter laid, The Shah fell and Nukes proliferated.
Oh, and Chinese paid off the Clinton's for rocket tech, so they could recently shoot down a satillite, or were you too busy watching the blue dress stain to notice.
As to Viet Nam and Iraq, the Libs are making the same plays that cost us vicotry in Nam. Yes, we are fighting a smart dedicated enemy. An enemy willing to hide among civilians and use them for cover. The VC did the same. We defeated Imperialist Japan, another dedicated, smart foe. We did anything and everything to bring them to their knees. 1960's libs did anything and everything to bring us defeat in Nam. Ask the Hmong what happens when the USA pulls out before victory. Jane Fonda should be in Jail for treason and giving aid and comfort to the enemy, yet here she is flapping her hippy lips about another war she refuses to win, after we were attacked.
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2479561
"We allow S. Korea and Iran to have nukes... this is more of an imminent threat."
By We you mean J. Carter. Thanks to the ground work Carter laid, The Shah fell and Nukes proliferated.
Oh, and Chinese paid off the Clinton's for rocket tech, so they could recently shoot down a satillite, or were you too busy watching the blue dress stain to notice.
As to Viet Nam and Iraq, the Libs are making the same plays that cost us vicotry in Nam. Yes, we are fighting a smart dedicated enemy. An enemy willing to hide among civilians and use them for cover. The VC did the same. We defeated Imperialist Japan, another dedicated, smart foe. We did anything and everything to bring them to their knees. 1960's libs did anything and everything to bring us defeat in Nam. Ask the Hmong what happens when the USA pulls out before victory. Jane Fonda should be in Jail for treason and giving aid and comfort to the enemy, yet here she is flapping her hippy lips about another war she refuses to win, after we were attacked.
I meant N. Korea... anywho
Why do you republicans blame all the world's troubles on democrats this is silly... I believe politicians on both sides are responsible for errors in foreign policy... you can say Reagan armed Bin Laden.... point is all of old Washington is corrupt and its why we need a change in leadership because we've had the same families in the white house for the last 24years.
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2478350
Rylan was just trying to get a response. There is no such source
APRIL 2007 McCain Speech
"Democrats argue we should redirect American resources to the 'real' war on terror, of which Iraq is just a sideshow. But whether or not al Qaeda terrorists were a present danger in Iraq before the war, there is no disputing they are there now, and their leaders recognize Iraq as the main battleground in the war on terror. " ...
Soits debatable if they were there are not... if they were than he would have said it.
..."When the President vetoes, as he should, the bill that refuses to support General Petraeus' new plan, I hope Democrats in Congress will heed the advice of one of their leading candidates for President, Senator Obama, and immediately pass a new bill to provide support to our troops in Iraq without substituting their partisan interests for those of our troops and our country. "
 

stdreb27

Active Member

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2479598
I meant N. Korea... anywho
Why do you republicans blame all the world's troubles on democrats this is silly... I believe politicians on both sides are responsible for errors in foreign policy... you can say Reagan armed Bin Laden.... point is all of old Washington is corrupt and its why we need a change in leadership because we've had the same families in the white house for the last 24years.
Reagan may have trained Bin Ladin, but there is a significant difference between funding a rebel group who Bin Ladin fought with and say bill clinton selling approving the sale of nuclear secrets to the chicoms.
The problem I have with democrats is this whole diplomacy thing. This concept of oh if we can show that we really are good guys the whole world will realise it and we won't have any more problems.
The fatal flaw with diplomacy is the assumption that you are negotiating with a sane rational individual.
And anyone who gasses his own people, starves them, has ---- rooms. Is not rational.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a shoot first ask questions later person. But the democrats fail to draw the line and say enough is enough.
Lets not forget you and democrats are arguing that we should have left a murdering, tyranical dictator in power.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2479598
I meant N. Korea... anywho
Why do you republicans blame all the world's troubles on democrats this is silly... I believe politicians on both sides are responsible for errors in foreign policy... you can say Reagan armed Bin Laden.... point is all of old Washington is corrupt and its why we need a change in leadership because we've had the same families in the white house for the last 24years.

Changed by an unexperienced candidate that votes more than 96% of the time with the Democratic Party (when he shows up to vote)?
Sorry, Rylan. Some of us think the fact that the USA is currently the only World Superpower is a good thing. Some of us don't want to see that change.
 

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by scubadoo
Please site your sources that there were ZERO terrorists in Iraq prior to the second war. What is this based on?

Originally Posted by rylan
John McCain

Originally Posted by Rylan1

http:///forum/post/2479606
APRIL 2007 McCain Speech
"Democrats argue
we should redirect American resources to the 'real' war on terror, of which Iraq is just a sideshow. But whether or not al Qaeda
terrorists were a present danger in Iraq before the war, there is no disputing they are there now, and their leaders recognize Iraq as the main battleground in the war on terror. " ....
Rylan, you said John McCain said there were not terrorists in Iraq before the war.
This quote in no way says that.
Retract your original statement or provide another quote, cause this one ain't gonna cut it.
 

salty blues

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2472641
Obama is not Muslim, and he has never said that he will be sworn in on the Koran. Yes he supports a woman's right to choose (abortion) which in and of itself would negate being a Muslim since Muslims, like some Christians, abhor this.
If all professed Christians abhored abortion it would put a lot of liberals and Democrats out of business.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2479598
I meant N. Korea... anywho
Why do you republicans blame all the world's troubles on democrats this is silly... I believe politicians on both sides are responsible for errors in foreign policy... you can say Reagan armed Bin Laden.... point is all of old Washington is corrupt and its why we need a change in leadership because we've had the same families in the white house for the last 24years.
You're long on rhetoric and short on fact. Who created the deal that put North Korea on the honor system regarding its nuke program in the mid 90's? Got a hint for you, neither the president that signed the deal or the former president that brokered it were members of the Republican party.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2479738
Changed by an unexperienced candidate that votes more than 96% of the time with the Democratic Party (when he shows up to vote)?
Sorry, Rylan. Some of us think the fact that the USA is currently the only World Superpower is a good thing. Some of us don't want to see that change.
66 out of 67 times might be more effective in describing the "moderate"
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2479606
APRIL 2007 McCain Speech
"Democrats argue we should redirect American resources to the 'real' war on terror, of which Iraq is just a sideshow. But whether or not al Qaeda terrorists were a present danger in Iraq before the war, there is no disputing they are there now, and their leaders recognize Iraq as the main battleground in the war on terror. " ...
Soits debatable if they were there are not... if they were than he would have said it.
..."When the President vetoes, as he should, the bill that refuses to support General Petraeus' new plan, I hope Democrats in Congress will heed the advice of one of their leading candidates for President, Senator Obama, and immediately pass a new bill to provide support to our troops in Iraq without substituting their partisan interests for those of our troops and our country. "
Ummm....does not state they were not there..and your quote stated eralier there were NO terrorists in Iraq priot to the war.
Nice try though but much like your candidate...you have once again fallen short on substance.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2479598
I meant N. Korea... anywho
Why do you republicans blame all the world's troubles on democrats this is silly... I believe politicians on both sides are responsible for errors in foreign policy... you can say Reagan armed Bin Laden.... point is all of old Washington is corrupt and its why we need a change in leadership because we've had the same families in the white house for the last 24years.
I for one do not lay 100% blame on Democrats. However, I do beleive if CLinton would have treated the initial WTC bombing as an internationl act of terror..as opposed to a crminal act the WTC'as might still be standing today.
Terrorists understand strength..and laugh at chatter and weakness. They gain their strength from the weakness that exists in Amrecia..and is conveyed and realyed by the democrats in general. Obama and Hillary wnat to return us back to the days of chatter and weakness...no thanks.
That's not change....it's the same old failed policies that led to two buildings falling and the Pentagon being attacked.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2479598
Ipoint is all of old Washington is corrupt and its why we need a change in leadership
Please tell me how Obama plans on fighting terrorism....please be specific. What will he do? Please bring some substance besides universal health care and cut and running from Iraq. What happens after we leave Iraq regarding terrorism? What will Mr Change do?
 

scubadoo

Active Member

Saddam's Terror Training Camps
What the documents captured from the former Iraqi regime reveal--and why they should all be made public.
by Stephen F. Hayes
01/16/2006, Volume 011, Issue 17
THE FORMER IRAQI REGIME OF Saddam Hussein trained thousands of radical Islamic terrorists from the region at camps in Iraq over the four years immediately preceding the U.S. invasion, according to documents and photographs recovered by the U.S. military in postwar Iraq. The existence and character of these documents has been confirmed to THE WEEKLY STANDARD by eleven U.S. government officials.
The secret training took place primarily at three camps--in Samarra, Ramadi, and Salman Pak--and was directed by elite Iraqi military units. Interviews by U.S. government interrogators with Iraqi regime officials and military leaders corroborate the documentary evidence. Many of the fighters were drawn from terrorist groups in northern Africa with close ties to al Qaeda, chief among them Algeria's GSPC and the Sudanese Islamic Army. Some 2,000 terrorists were trained at these Iraqi camps each year from 1999 to 2002, putting the total number at or above 8,000. Intelligence officials believe that some of these terrorists returned to Iraq and are responsible for attacks against Americans and Iraqis. According to three officials with knowledge of the intelligence on Iraqi training camps, White House and National Security Council officials were briefed on these findings in May 2005; senior Defense Department officials subsequently received the same briefing.
The photographs and documents on Iraqi training camps come from a collection of some 2 million "exploitable items" captured in postwar Iraq and Afghanistan. They include handwritten notes, typed documents, audiotapes, videotapes, compact discs, floppy discs, and computer hard drives. Taken together, this collection could give U.S.
intelligence officials and policymakers an inside look at the activities of the former Iraqi regime in the months and years before the Iraq war.
The discovery of the information on jihadist training camps in Iraq would seem to have two major consequences: It exposes the flawed assumptions of the experts and U.S. intelligence officials who told us for years that a secularist like Saddam Hussein would never work with Islamic radicals, any more than such jihadists would work with an infidel like the Iraqi dictator. It also reminds us that valuable information remains buried in the mountain of documents recovered in Afghanistan and Iraq over the past four years.
Nearly three years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, only 50,000 of these 2 million "exploitable items" have been thoroughly examined. That's 2.5 percent. Despite the hard work of the individuals assigned to the "DOCEX" project, the process is not moving quickly enough, says Michael Tanji, a former Defense Intelligence Agency official who helped lead the document exploitation effort for 18 months. "At this rate," he says, "if we continue to approach DOCEX in a linear fashion, our great-grandchildren will still be sorting through this stuff."
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2479963
Please tell me how Obama plans on fighting terrorism....please be specific. What will he do? Please bring some substance besides universal health care and cut and running from Iraq. What happens after we leave Iraq regarding terrorism? What will Mr Change do?
He plans on retreating from Iraq, where we are currently fighting Al Qaeda, to look for them in the hills of Pakistan.
 
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