Please don't vote for McCain

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2506104
Like the heavy burden of National Debt interest? If you're including that as stupid wasteful spending too. Then we are in agreement.
At current spending levels, we will not be able to meet interest only payments on the national debt in 2040 ( that from the GAO).
Obama's plan spends about 110 BILLION/Year JUST on the national health plan ( which is unconstitutional). Add medicaid/ssi/ and what ever else they come up with and we are further in debt. Has anyone followed the census, soon more people will be on some form of assistance than there are working. How can we produce enough to cover those folks?
My Plan
1.) Shrink the federal government 10% per year for 3 years
2.) Decrease non-defense spending by 10% per year ( mostly Pork barrel bridge to nowhere spending).
3.) Lower taxes, and dissolve the IRS instituting a national sales tax.
4.) Term limits for Congress to keep the power in the hands of the people. ( May take a Constitutional ammendment).
5.) Give power back to the states where the Representatives are more accountable to the people ( fewer voters more power/vote). This is as the Founding Fathers intended.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2506104
Like the heavy burden of National Debt interest? If you're including that as stupid wasteful spending too. Then we are in agreement.
Absolutely.

 

[bdhutier]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2506104
Like the heavy burden of National Debt interest? If you're including that as stupid wasteful spending too. Then we are in agreement.
I will certainly agree. My opinion of the problem with our debt is, we continue to overspend in light of our debt. I fully support the deficit spending Regan made. He was smart enough to realize the way to beat the Soviets was to out-spend them. We had financing resources available the Soviets didn't, they still tried to compete, and ultimately collapsed. The problem is, we continued the overspending, and have not taken care of the debt. It's like buying the plasma on credit... it's ok to buy it, but you can't let it sit on your card, making monthly payments. You clean it up ASAP. I agree with journey and the others. Shrink government, thereby spending, debt consumed in no time. That is, if the Chinese let us get away with it!!
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2506205
Sadly I think today on the national level republicans have bought into the idealogy that spending is the way to get elected. The problem is, they think that it is easier to sell to the moronic masses how the government will provide for you vs you working and bettering yourself.
stdreb, that's the only way they can compete! For the past two generations, Americans have been told the govt. will take care of them, and all their needs! What are the Repubs supposed to say? The govt. will no longer support you? That's a first-class ticket to the chair, man!
I'm all for a helping hand, Lord knows there have been times my family has needed and greatly appreciated it, but the current system of straight-up living off the govt. has GOT to stop!!

 

[zman1]

To be fair we have had a National Debt from the beginning, it wasn't all interest bearing debt then either.
Today it's 9,382,624,430,823.12

[hr]
Clinton announces record payment on national debt
By John King/CNN
May 1, 2000
Web posted at: 5:13 p.m. EDT (2113 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) - President Bill Clinton said Monday that the United States would pay off $216 billion in debt this year, bringing to $355 billion the amount of the nation's debt paid down in the three years since the government balanced the budget and began running surpluses.
In a written statement, Clinton said the $216 billion payment represented the largest debt paydown in American history, and he said that the federal government's long-term debt is now $2.4 trillion lower than projected to be when he first took office.
However, the U.S. government still has a long way to go before it pays down the entire national debt, which now stands at $5.7 trillion.
"We should take advantage of this historic opportunity to use the benefits of debt reduction to extend the life of Social Security and Medicare and pay off the entire national debt by 2013 for the first time since Andrew Jackson was president," Clinton said.
Clinton has asked Congress to dedicate the interest savings from paying down the national debt to the Social Security Trust Fund, which will add 54 years to its life, according to White House estimates.
Clinton also used the announcement to take issue with Republican tax cut plans, noting that "the debt quadrupled in the twelve years before I came into office," a reference to his Republican predecessors, Ronald Reagan and George Bush.
"We should not jeopardize the longest economic expansion in history with risky tax cuts that threaten our fiscal discipline," said Clinton, who credited his administration's 1993 and 1997 budgets as well "tough choices in each and every year" for the debt turnaround.
"As a result, interest rates are lower, leading to stronger investment and growth while saving money for American families," he said.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by bdhutier
http:///forum/post/2506402
stdreb, that's the only way they can compete! For the past two generations, Americans have been told the govt. will take care of them, and all their needs! What are the Repubs supposed to say? The govt. will no longer support you? That's a first-class ticket to the chair, man!
I'm all for a helping hand, Lord knows there have been times my family has needed and greatly appreciated it, but the current system of straight-up living off the govt. has GOT to stop!!
There is a difference between a right, and our moral responsibility.
The only way they can compete? Horse crap, you just need to know how to package it. If people will believe a total lie like global warming, the truth shouldn't be that hard to sell.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2506425
To be fair we have had a National Debt from the beginning, it wasn't all interest bearing debt then either.
Today it's 9,382,624,430,823.12

[hr]
Clinton announces record payment on national debt
By John King/CNN
May 1, 2000
Web posted at: 5:13 p.m. EDT (2113 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) - President Bill Clinton said Monday that the United States would pay off $216 billion in debt this year, bringing to $355 billion the amount of the nation's debt paid down in the three years since the government balanced the budget and began running surpluses.
In a written statement, Clinton said the $216 billion payment represented the largest debt paydown in American history, and he said that the federal government's long-term debt is now $2.4 trillion lower than projected to be when he first took office.
However, the U.S. government still has a long way to go before it pays down the entire national debt, which now stands at $5.7 trillion.
"We should take advantage of this historic opportunity to use the benefits of debt reduction to extend the life of Social Security and Medicare and pay off the entire national debt by 2013 for the first time since Andrew Jackson was president," Clinton said.
Clinton has asked Congress to dedicate the interest savings from paying down the national debt to the Social Security Trust Fund, which will add 54 years to its life, according to White House estimates.
Clinton also used the announcement to take issue with Republican tax cut plans, noting that "the debt quadrupled in the twelve years before I came into office," a reference to his Republican predecessors, Ronald Reagan and George Bush.
"We should not jeopardize the longest economic expansion in history with risky tax cuts that threaten our fiscal discipline," said Clinton, who credited his administration's 1993 and 1997 budgets as well "tough choices in each and every year" for the debt turnaround.
"As a result, interest rates are lower, leading to stronger investment and growth while saving money for American families," he said.
The problem is during periods following major tax cuts, such as JFK's, Reagan, W Bush's, we have seen massive increase in tax revenue.
Why does Bill Clinton's "universal healthcare" plan not effect how you feel about domestic spending?
That program alone had the potential of being the largest drain on the federal budget.
If the guy had his way, you wouldn't have an argument.

 

[zman1]

You and I have been effected by the uninsured Americans. One (of many) reason why our employer plans have cost us more and put a burden on business. For one, the losses at Hospitals for treating uninsured has shifted the cost to the insured. So we are already paying for it indirectly.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2506104
Like the heavy burden of National Debt interest? If you're including that as stupid wasteful spending too. Then we are in agreement.
I agree, lets eliminate 100% of all foriegn aid, earmarks, eliminate NPR and NEA, Cut congressional pensions and pay them by the hour. Heck there isn't enough bandwith here for the list of everything I would cut but you get my point. Then freeze spending and tax rates until the debt is paid. The reform party had that as part of their platform.

 

[1journeyman]

Let's not forget which party fought for the blanced budget of the mid 90's.
Unfortunately they lost their way in 2000.

 

[reefraff]

Really we need two things to happen.
First Term limits for members of Congress. It was originally intended that congress would be made up of the butcher, the Baker and the candle stick maker who would serve a term or two then go back to the real world and let the next wave come and serve. The Senate was to be the place where the professionals would serve and work with the congressmen to make things happen. Unfortunatly the politicians are never going to create a constitutional amendment to limit their stay on easy street or we the people.
Second is some rich ol fart needs to start filing lawsuits to enforce the 10th amendment. One of the reasons the federal government is so bloated is the 10th amendment has been ignored and the feds have taken on responsibilities better left to the states.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2506440
You and I have been effected by the uninsured Americans. One (of many) reason why our employer plans have cost us more and put a burden on business. For one, the losses at Hospitals for treating uninsured has shifted the cost to the insured. So we are already paying for it indirectly.
I think that is a bit of an stretch. You're saying that the demand for medical services wouldn't increase, because people get the "free system" that the private sector funds anyway. We do pay for some now, sure. But take me for example, I'd be a big benificiary to a single payer system. I don't make alot of money. But I make some. I can't just walk into a doctors office and get free care. While I was in college and working I didn't have health insurance, there were several time I probably should have gone to the doctor, but I didn't because of financial limitations. One of the few times I went in, the doctor told me I needed some 1500 dollar test. I declined after asking him if he would eat the cost, of course he said no. With a system that doesn't have a variable cost, just taxes. I'd be going in every time I had the sniffles or a fever. Heck I have health insurance now and don't do that. Lets also consider the efficiency of our government. And once again (although you weren't here for this) I ask, have you ever seen a government agency more efficient than a private agency.
Besides we aren't talking about cost to us, or to private business. The federal costs associated with a single payer system would be staggering.
I'm not very informed on the politics of the 80s and the spending habits other than I know Reagan spend a crapload of money on national defense. He and bush were a little before my time. I was a political nerd when I was 5 and reagan left office but it was more of a foreign policy interest than a macro-economic interest.
I've pondered the political reasons for the massive increases in spending over the last eight years. I have some ideas, but they are just ideas nothing I'd be willing to go out on a limb about. I keep coming back to this whole "reach across the isle" thing that for some retarted reason Republicans think they have to do. They may have been in power but someone forgot to tell them.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2506470
Second is some rich ol fart needs to start filing lawsuits to enforce the 10th amendment. One of the reasons the federal government is so bloated is the 10th amendment has been ignored and the feds have taken on responsibilities better left to the states.
You can thank the warren court for that.

 

[zman1]

Richard Nixon - (Sammy Hagar -- I can't drive 55) Commerce Clause

 

[mfp1016]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2506175
I bought into the republican propaganda most of my adult life...I feel I have been cheated, tricked and lied to. Shame on me, I knew I shouldn't have bought that cure for the common cold, I want my money back.....
You're right, historically, Republicans aren't as good at propaganda as the Democrats.

 

[mfp1016]

Originally Posted by firefish
http:///forum/post/2503062
don't vote for any republican remember the bush's and reagan. Republicans are only for big business and oil and to crush the middle class americans. Have you ever seen gas prices go up so high in your life???? I just love it when exxon declares the 10,000,000 profit for the first quarter great isn't it reagan got rid of being able to take your interest charges and car interest charges off you taxes!!!! thanks ronnie. all republicans want to do is declare war on somebody-anybody. what has the Iraqi war done as far as freeing these people-nothing. I just read People Magazine when they list all the americans who lost their lives in this stupid war. If you vote republican don't forget I told you soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I suggest you actually read about the oil industry before you go on making brash, ignorant comments.

 

[zman1]

Take a history lesson and search for things like:
1.Iran 1950s - focus on Mohammad Reza Shah (Shah of Iran) and then the revolution. IMO Birthplace of anti-U.S. militant extremist.
2. The Iran and Iraq war and see who we were supporting.
3. Soviet war in Afghanistan -
It's not democracy they hate us for, though the popular current belief... I have said it time after time, it's OIL and (was) the old Soviet threat and who controlled it. That's why we are in that region, otherwise there is nothing there. There are plenty of other places we could champion democracy and don't.
We need to be there and protect our interest. It has backfired on us a few times on the way we handled situations, but until we ever get off OIL, that' s not going to change...

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by firefish
http:///forum/post/2503062
don't vote for any republican remember the bush's and reagan. Republicans are only for big business and oil and to crush the middle class americans. Have you ever seen gas prices go up so high in your life???? I just love it when exxon declares the 10,000,000 profit for the first quarter great isn't it reagan got rid of being able to take your interest charges and car interest charges off you taxes!!!! thanks ronnie. all republicans want to do is declare war on somebody-anybody. what has the Iraqi war done as far as freeing these people-nothing. I just read People Magazine when they list all the americans who lost their lives in this stupid war. If you vote republican don't forget I told you soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Grape or cherry?

Reagan got rid of a couple of write offs? Oh, tragedy... considering how much he lowered taxes, lowered inflation, and started an economy that boomed for 20 years...
Gas prices- Have you ever seen the demand for a barrel of oil so high in your life? That's right... simple concept of supply and demand, amid speculators in the market....
How many millions in taxes will those Oil Companies pay for those record profits? You do know how regulated and how taxed the oil industry is, right?
Anyway... let's address your comment that I put in bold. First, so you read People magazine and the had a list you read? Great. I walked on the USS Lexington and read the list of names of military crewmen that died on that ship. Do you understand what kind of horrible casualty numbers we took in WWI and WWII? Do you realize that the Axis powers came to be such military machines because political leaders in the 30's kept looking the other way as Germany and Japan broke international "law" and former treaties they had signed. Appreasement does not work.
You bash Republicans for wanting to declare war on anybody. In addition to goofy, would you rather we do nothing like Clinton? Let's not forget, he too tried appeasement.... Rather leave world security in the hands of the UN? Look at Africa today for their track record. Rather the UN handle wars? Look to the Korean War for their stellar performance.
Now, as for Iraq: Taken from a Pentagon briefing last month..

 

[1journeyman]

To say that in 5 years we have overthrown one of the region's must dangerous dictators, helped establish a Democracy in a region where it has never been before, while fighting hords of radicals determined to make it fail, and not call what's going on their now a success is crazy.
Of course the people are more free. Take a look at the number of Iraqi's that vote, with smiling faces, and tell me nothing has been done for them. Take a look at the number of small businesses starting up in Iraq and say nothing has been done for the people. Take a look at the videos of torture and r ape done under Saddam's regime and tell me nothing has been done for the people...
5 years... study the history of the USA and look at how long our Nation struggled after our Democracy was formed. Look at Japan and Germany after WW2.
Real life is not microwavable. Too many Americans seem to be unable to understand this.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2506749
To say that in 5 years we have overthrown one of the region's must dangerous dictators, helped establish a Democracy in a region where it has never been before, while fighting hords of radicals determined to make it fail, and not call what's going on their now a success is crazy.
Of course the people are more free. Take a look at the number of Iraqi's that vote, with smiling faces, and tell me nothing has been done for them. Take a look at the number of small businesses starting up in Iraq and say nothing has been done for the people. Take a look at the videos of torture and r ape done under Saddam's regime and tell me nothing has been done for the people...
5 years... study the history of the USA and look at how long our Nation struggled after our Democracy was formed. Look at Japan and Germany after WW2.
Real life is not microwavable. Too many Americans seem to be unable to understand this.
Don't forget we the United States did this while having half of congress working for a party who called the war lost, a failure ect.

 

[mie]

Again, I'm for judges enforcing the Constitution. Roe vs. Wade is Unconstitutional. The Feds stepped in and took rights away from the States. Something the Constitution prohibits (See the 10th Amendment). Last time I check that was the President's postition as well. Abortion should be decided on the State level.
Are we not called the "UNITED SATES"?