Put up or shut up!
- Thread starter nm reef
- Start date
neoreef
Member
I just came back from Hannibal MO, home of Samuel Clemmens, who offered this advice:
Better to keep your mouth closed, and be thought stupid, than to open it, and remove all doubt.
Notice how interesting and attention-getting Mr Quiet Steve Weast's methods are? He's got the product, an awesome tank, to back it up. I would call that "putting it up", and no need to shut up.
We are loving your tank, Steve, and would like to hear more from you!
What's your background? How did you learn all this stuff?
Awe...and then some.
Better to keep your mouth closed, and be thought stupid, than to open it, and remove all doubt.
Notice how interesting and attention-getting Mr Quiet Steve Weast's methods are? He's got the product, an awesome tank, to back it up. I would call that "putting it up", and no need to shut up.
We are loving your tank, Steve, and would like to hear more from you!
What's your background? How did you learn all this stuff?
Awe...and then some.
lutz493
Member
Sammy -
Here is my issue with my tank, I have no Hair or Cyano and haven't for probably close to a year.
I have just junk - Floating in my water. I have a Watchman Goby in the tank for turn-over and there is just constantly sand particles and free floating tiny particles I cannot seem to get rid of whatever I do. I think some of the particles accounts for having the DSB in the Display.
I go to our local fish stores around Cleveland and take a view through the sides of their tanks. Everyone seems to have these particles floating around, but I want crystal clear, particle free water and I seriously have no idea on how to get that.
My next step is to buy an Eheim Canister and hook that up to the display and hope that is can pull out most of the free floating material.
If anyone who reads this has some trick for me on getting that crap outta the tank I'd appreciate it.
I have my skimmer in the sump and I took filter floss and stuffed it into the chamber my overflows runs into and thats basically all I have in terms of filtering out the junk. Also in the overflow box is some filter pad but that really only gets rid of the larger particles.
Here is my issue with my tank, I have no Hair or Cyano and haven't for probably close to a year.
I have just junk - Floating in my water. I have a Watchman Goby in the tank for turn-over and there is just constantly sand particles and free floating tiny particles I cannot seem to get rid of whatever I do. I think some of the particles accounts for having the DSB in the Display.
I go to our local fish stores around Cleveland and take a view through the sides of their tanks. Everyone seems to have these particles floating around, but I want crystal clear, particle free water and I seriously have no idea on how to get that.
My next step is to buy an Eheim Canister and hook that up to the display and hope that is can pull out most of the free floating material.
If anyone who reads this has some trick for me on getting that crap outta the tank I'd appreciate it.
I have my skimmer in the sump and I took filter floss and stuffed it into the chamber my overflows runs into and thats basically all I have in terms of filtering out the junk. Also in the overflow box is some filter pad but that really only gets rid of the larger particles.
razoreqx
Active Member
I am also happy Steve dropped by.. He brought up some interesting points.
Personally I think its better to offer Newcomers to the hobby YOUR methods of husbandry and less of the
"LOSE THE CC!!! DSB is the ONLY way"
type advice. Just because it works for you doesnt mean it will work with other setups.
As I suggested months ago... when everyone was telling me to replace my CC with LS... DSB's would come and go as the "standard" for setting up substrate. I think there is a place for DSB's even in my system. I use a DSB in my fuge. However my display it will, and has always been, and will continue to be, a thin layer of crushed coral (~2")... and my live rock has always rested on the bottom of the tank (actually I have to ... the Engineer gobys would collapse it.)
The substrate in my display tank is for cosmetics only. It also gives the engineers a playground to work in (which by the way is constantly getting stirred and vaccumed by them thus moving detris off the bottom of my tank and up and out the overflows...
I hope everyone learned something from this thread... I sure did..
Personally I think its better to offer Newcomers to the hobby YOUR methods of husbandry and less of the
"LOSE THE CC!!! DSB is the ONLY way"
type advice. Just because it works for you doesnt mean it will work with other setups.
As I suggested months ago... when everyone was telling me to replace my CC with LS... DSB's would come and go as the "standard" for setting up substrate. I think there is a place for DSB's even in my system. I use a DSB in my fuge. However my display it will, and has always been, and will continue to be, a thin layer of crushed coral (~2")... and my live rock has always rested on the bottom of the tank (actually I have to ... the Engineer gobys would collapse it.)
The substrate in my display tank is for cosmetics only. It also gives the engineers a playground to work in (which by the way is constantly getting stirred and vaccumed by them thus moving detris off the bottom of my tank and up and out the overflows...
I hope everyone learned something from this thread... I sure did..
razoreqx
Active Member
Originally posted by Kip4130
razor... that CC is fine... as long as you have the discipline to maintain it... just like anything else in this hobby... maintenance becomes a discipline
Totally agree with you Kip.. Its why I never argue with anyone that says DSB's is the way to go... Its knowing what your getting into...
broomer5
Active Member
I'll put up
30 gallon tank - one of my first reef tank attempts 3 years ago. I'm no reef expert either, but I have learned a lot from some fine folks on this board.
Minimal lighting on this 30 - around 100 watts PC Smartlite.
Wet/dry with bioballs, crushed coral, some live rock and a crappy skimmer.
Tapwater to fill it up, then RO/DI for top offs and water changes.
Nitrates and phospates were a problem, as well as a huge outbreak of bubble algae.
Lighting obviously was insufficient.
They lived - but growth was minimal.
No refugium, some nusiance algae growth.
I ran this tank for a year or so, then moved most of the corals to my 75 reef tank.
This tank is now a fowrl and two percs / cleanup crew.
30 gallon tank - one of my first reef tank attempts 3 years ago. I'm no reef expert either, but I have learned a lot from some fine folks on this board.
Minimal lighting on this 30 - around 100 watts PC Smartlite.
Wet/dry with bioballs, crushed coral, some live rock and a crappy skimmer.
Tapwater to fill it up, then RO/DI for top offs and water changes.
Nitrates and phospates were a problem, as well as a huge outbreak of bubble algae.
Lighting obviously was insufficient.
They lived - but growth was minimal.
No refugium, some nusiance algae growth.
I ran this tank for a year or so, then moved most of the corals to my 75 reef tank.
This tank is now a fowrl and two percs / cleanup crew.
jawfishray
Member
In the process of following this thread, I have noted a couple hints regarding Kip missing in action...then I see him as a visitor?
This thought is slightly OT to the the current, wonderfully informative and very neeeded discussion of what really works as a basic and an advanced level of investment of time, effort, and money.
Why did Kip become a visitor?
Ray Boemler
This thought is slightly OT to the the current, wonderfully informative and very neeeded discussion of what really works as a basic and an advanced level of investment of time, effort, and money.
Why did Kip become a visitor?
Ray Boemler
broomer5
Active Member
My current reef tank is 75 gallon with 940 watts of mixed MH & VHO, a DIY planted refugium, plenty of intank and system circulation, no intank powerheads, lots of DIY stuff.
Basic B-Ionic and Kalk seems to keep my levels where I want them.
I feed the corals - and the fish/janitors get what's left over.
I don't feed the tank heavy - this was one of the first things I learned that actually gave me better results.
I don't keep many difficult to care for corals. I have been able to keep a nice Sebae anemone for 2-1/2 years.
I've always said here that it's "your-tank ~ your-choice" and I continue to believe this.
I do think that we all learn from each other and our collective experiences - but I also believe that we can learn what NOT to do from the beginning.
Things that are proven to work wonders vs. things that many folks have tried, but found unsuccessful.
Tapwater in my tank is not even a choice anymore.
Take care of the saltwater - and you'll be good to go.
RO/DI all the way
Basic B-Ionic and Kalk seems to keep my levels where I want them.
I feed the corals - and the fish/janitors get what's left over.
I don't feed the tank heavy - this was one of the first things I learned that actually gave me better results.
I don't keep many difficult to care for corals. I have been able to keep a nice Sebae anemone for 2-1/2 years.
I've always said here that it's "your-tank ~ your-choice" and I continue to believe this.
I do think that we all learn from each other and our collective experiences - but I also believe that we can learn what NOT to do from the beginning.
Things that are proven to work wonders vs. things that many folks have tried, but found unsuccessful.
Tapwater in my tank is not even a choice anymore.
Take care of the saltwater - and you'll be good to go.
RO/DI all the way
razoreqx
Active Member
Originally posted by broomer5
My current reef tank is 75 gallon with 940 watts of mixed MH & VHO, a DIY planted refugium, plenty of intank and system circulation, no intank powerheads, lots of DIY stuff.
Basic B-Ionic and Kalk seems to keep my levels where I want them.
I feed the corals - and the fish/janitors get what's left over.
I don't feed the tank heavy - this was one of the first things I learned that actually gave me better results.
I've always said here that it's "your-tank ~ your-choice" and I continue to believe this.
I do think that we all learn from each other and our collective experiences - but I also believe that we can learn what NOT to do from the beginning.
Things that are proven to work wonders vs. things that many folks have tried, but found unsuccessful.
Tapwater in my tank is not even a choice anymore.
RO/DI all the way
That is actually one of the best example displays i have seen with intro reef with affordable equipment vs
[hr]
reef with good equipment and solid husbandry techniques..
Personally I could live with both reefs.. but you get a good feel for the difference in those pictures.. Thanks for posting them.. Its so important to tell people the cost both time and money in caring for either reef and let the individual make his or her choice.
S
spsaddict
Guest
Originally posted by broomer5
I've always said here that it's "your-tank ~ your-choice" and I continue to believe this.
I do think that we all learn from each other and our collective experiences - but I also believe that we can learn what NOT to do from the beginning.
Things that are proven to work wonders vs. things that many folks have tried, but found unsuccessful.
Tapwater in my tank is not even a choice anymore.
Take care of the saltwater - and you'll be good to go.
RO/DI all the way
:yes: :yes: :yes:
nice tank b
steveweast
Member
Kip4130..... that's an excellent response and very much on the mark. All our tanks are trying to do the same thing...process waste. The discussion comes in when we all decide which is the best way to do that. Like I said before, there are several methods that can be employed to accomplish this goal... with DSB's being one of them. The reefer must have an understanding of what is behind the methodology which he is choosing and not just blindly follow a recipe....but, this is what makes this hobby so interesting....it is a constantly evolving science that is being pushed forward by us.. the hobbiests.. and not some research group. Remember, it wasn't long ago that no SPS corals were able to survive at all in our tanks.
Back to DSB's for a bit.... No one should pull out a DSB just because some one else said to.... DSB's have their strengths and weakness...it is up to the reefer to understand these stengths and weekness. DSB's are relatively new... and our understanding of them is far from complete. One of the staunches proponents of DSB's (a prominant Dr. on another board) recently had his tank crash... which spurred a huge debate. The Dr. decided that these DSB's may not process wastes as completely as originally thought and can act as as nutrient sink which can build to toxic levels within a few years.....thus precipitating a crash. This has been the case for many acconplished reefers on the boards lately. It has become quite the fad to ditch the DSB....however, then there are the gorgeous DSB tanks that never have that occur. The moral is.... each reefer has to decide what is best for him.... there is no magic bullet... you have to decide how to process the waste. It was just my decision not to process the waste...but rather, remove it.
Back to DSB's for a bit.... No one should pull out a DSB just because some one else said to.... DSB's have their strengths and weakness...it is up to the reefer to understand these stengths and weekness. DSB's are relatively new... and our understanding of them is far from complete. One of the staunches proponents of DSB's (a prominant Dr. on another board) recently had his tank crash... which spurred a huge debate. The Dr. decided that these DSB's may not process wastes as completely as originally thought and can act as as nutrient sink which can build to toxic levels within a few years.....thus precipitating a crash. This has been the case for many acconplished reefers on the boards lately. It has become quite the fad to ditch the DSB....however, then there are the gorgeous DSB tanks that never have that occur. The moral is.... each reefer has to decide what is best for him.... there is no magic bullet... you have to decide how to process the waste. It was just my decision not to process the waste...but rather, remove it.
S
shouse
Guest
Steve,
I keep hearing about people that do have nice Reefs but have to clean the glass from alage a lot. It would be nice not to constantly battle alage growth. u mentioned u had a 35 times turnover rate in your tank. What i dont understand is how do u do that? Is it all from your skimmers and reactor pumping a lot of water or are u using other means? I guess what i dont understand how it's done is the high circulation rate. What is the point of power heads if all they're doing is creating a current and not filtering water? I think i'm missing or misunderstanding something somewhere. If someone can clear this up it's appreciated. thanks
I keep hearing about people that do have nice Reefs but have to clean the glass from alage a lot. It would be nice not to constantly battle alage growth. u mentioned u had a 35 times turnover rate in your tank. What i dont understand is how do u do that? Is it all from your skimmers and reactor pumping a lot of water or are u using other means? I guess what i dont understand how it's done is the high circulation rate. What is the point of power heads if all they're doing is creating a current and not filtering water? I think i'm missing or misunderstanding something somewhere. If someone can clear this up it's appreciated. thanks
banshee
Member
My problem with this board is the bashing of others with "different" ideas and how I can't get many responses to my questions because people are afraid to post their opinions (including me). I rarely post anymore because of this. Now, bob's method may not be right, but he likes it. A friend of mine had macro in his display tank, and although I didn't care for it, he loved it. I used to use tap water (I will post a pic of my old tank later) and my reef did well (IMO). But the constant bashing of people that post these opinions is frustrating. Now, just admit that if some people here did not know Steve and his tank (love it, BTW!!) and he posted his methods, that he would be labeled the anti-Christ and flamed until the end of time. His methods of frequent sand stiring and vacuuming, replacing his entire sand bed every 4-5 months, never use phyto, doesn't care about pod populations, and uses crushed coral for a shallow sand bed goes against the normal opinion of this board. AND HIS TANK LOOKS GREAT!!! I have seen people get flamed for saying that they do this. STOP THE MADNESS!!
I think Steve has a great philosophy....
1) everyone should try to acquire as much information as possible if they are interested in keeping a reef. There are many other sources of information out there and many more bulletin boards with some pretty accomplished aquarists. I visit this site often.. but, I visit many other sites as well to broaden my awareness as much as possible. It just takes a little searching.
2) It seems these days that there are alot of "experts" on the bulletin boards or who write books. I have yet to see one of these "experts" tanks that even begin to approach the level that has been achieved by hobbiests on this and other boards... sometimes I wish they would put up or shut up...but, they seem to have more motivation in selling books or expanding their egos at the hobbiest's expense. Now that I think about it, there are a couple of experts that have accomplished systems.... Mike Palleta and Steve Tyree come to mind...but, they seldom preach reef methodolgy...but, if they did, they could at least back it up.
Can't we just post opinions without all the bashing????
I think Steve has a great philosophy....
1) everyone should try to acquire as much information as possible if they are interested in keeping a reef. There are many other sources of information out there and many more bulletin boards with some pretty accomplished aquarists. I visit this site often.. but, I visit many other sites as well to broaden my awareness as much as possible. It just takes a little searching.
2) It seems these days that there are alot of "experts" on the bulletin boards or who write books. I have yet to see one of these "experts" tanks that even begin to approach the level that has been achieved by hobbiests on this and other boards... sometimes I wish they would put up or shut up...but, they seem to have more motivation in selling books or expanding their egos at the hobbiest's expense. Now that I think about it, there are a couple of experts that have accomplished systems.... Mike Palleta and Steve Tyree come to mind...but, they seldom preach reef methodolgy...but, if they did, they could at least back it up.
Can't we just post opinions without all the bashing????
steveweast
Member
Shouse....circulation does not necessarily mean the amount of water going through a sump or other filtration device. In most reefs(and especially sps reefs) most of the circulation stays in the tank. You asked what good does a powerhead do if it doesn't flow water through a filter? Well, it does alot. High circulation will keep detritus in suspenion until it can be removed by your overflow and then hence, by your skimmers. The circulation also enables the corals to get rid of their waste...they are at the mercy of current to remove their waste. And remember, the biological filtration in most of our tanks is in the main display in the form of liverock and/or sand... not in the sump. In my system, I have (4) sequence pumps that each put out 6000gph on a closed loop (circulating in the display only) and I have (2) other sequence pumps that put out about 4000gph each that return water from the sump. I only run enough water through the sump that I feel is necessry to run my skimmers/heaters/chillers/reactors.
bang guy
Moderator
Steve - I would like to thank you again for your (rare) appearance on the board. I am in awe over your system (and the corals are ok too
).
Would it be too much to ask to just drop a line once in a while and just mention something you've done & why? Just something short to wet our appetite so we can go off & research.
A prime example is your mention of a Phosphate remover, how you use it, and why. Perfect!
I have considered something in addition to Algae & Xenia removal. I have a gut feeling that Phosban would severly limit the algae growth and possible the Xenia growth. Time will tell.
Bang
Would it be too much to ask to just drop a line once in a while and just mention something you've done & why? Just something short to wet our appetite so we can go off & research.
A prime example is your mention of a Phosphate remover, how you use it, and why. Perfect!
I have considered something in addition to Algae & Xenia removal. I have a gut feeling that Phosban would severly limit the algae growth and possible the Xenia growth. Time will tell.
Bang