Sure you can have health insurance (not sure how you will pay for it).

[darthtang aw]

Of course the government is picking up some of the costs.  That's the main design of ACA.  However, the intent was for state governments to kick in their shares, not stick the entire bill on the feds.  Texas has billions sitting in "general funds" that could be spent to assist with healthcare for lower income families and children.  Instead, it goes into the coffers of the politicians, or we spend millions in "security details" for that moron we have as Governor who keeps making failed attempts at higher offices.
Changes?  Forcing all states to contribute their share, making premiums more affordable for EVERYONE, not just those who live in states where they do pick up the tab.  Enforce the employer mandate, and quit pandering to small businesses as a way to keep a repeal of the law off the table.  Include laws that regulate the medical industry, and begin curbing excessive costs for services and drugs. You can cut costs of premiums, but its moot point if the costs of services and prescription drugs continue to climb that offset those benefits.
Let's make one thing VERY clear. The government is not picking up the cost. Taxpayers are, in one form or another. This is NOT cost reduction. This is cost SHIFTING.
When you say force states to kick in their share, are you speaking about the medicaid expansion aspect of the Bill?
How would you right a law to curb medical costs? It is a great idea in the abstract....but how do you apply it is the problem.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539244
Let's make one thing VERY clear. The government is not picking up the cost. Taxpayers are, in one form or another. This is NOT cost reduction. This is cost SHIFTING.
When you say force states to kick in their share, are you speaking about the medicaid expansion aspect of the Bill?
How would you right a law to curb medical costs? It is a great idea in the abstract....but how do you apply it is the problem.
Wasn't one of the selling points of this scam that the feds were picking up 100% of the expanded medicaid costs LOL!

 

[phixer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AggieAlum http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/60#post_3539213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixer http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/60#post_3539210
Whats a matter Aggie, Darth and Quills wear you out ?

Yes as does nature. How much money does the church have? The Vatican? Where does this money come from? Is it taxed? No , I expect them to go the route of the Dodo bird. No , because if I did I wouldnt be here right now. Single mothers? people make choices they should do their homework before expecting someone else to save them when the reality of their own bad choices manifiests itself.
If they aren't prepared for the outcome of their own foolish decisions then they should jump off a bridge rather than burden society.

Not my concern or responsibility. If you want to save the world do so with your own time and money.

Im a mean cold heart person because I believe in the natural order of things.

Let me know if I missed something.
Ah, the survival of the fittest/sucks to be you attitude. Until it happens to you. Then the whining of "Where's my assistance?" starts. I'm sure if you lost all forms of income and it came down to either accepting help or living in the streets, you'd take the latter. Foolish decisions? Now you want to dictate how women handle their own medical decisions? Typical Conservative. The only reason church's like the Catholics have their billions of dollars is because of the bleating idiots that hand their money over to them hand over fist with the failed promise of salvation.

Yes, I do my part to "save the world" when I can. Let me know if you're ever in a bind. I'll toss you a bone and a blanket and point you to the nearest bridge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AggieAlum http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/60#post_3539213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixer http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/60#post_3539210
Whats a matter Aggie, Darth and Quills wear you out ? ltwaterfish.com/smilies/laughing.gif" />

Yes as does nature. How much money does the church have? The Vatican? Where does this money come from? Is it taxed? No , I expect them to go the route of the Dodo bird. No , because if I did I wouldnt be here right now. Single mothers? people make choices they should do their homework before expecting someone else to save them when the reality of their own bad choices manifiests itself.
If they aren't prepared for the outcome of their own foolish decisions then they should jump off a bridge rather than burden society.

Not my concern or responsibility. If you want to save the world do so with your own time and money.

Im a mean cold heart person because I believe in the natural order of things.

Let me know if I missed something.
Ah, the survival of the fittest/sucks to be you attitude. Until it happens to you. Then the whining of "Where's my assistance?" starts. I'm sure if you lost all forms of income and it came down to either accepting help or living in the streets, you'd take the latter. Foolish decisions? Now you want to dictate how women handle their own medical decisions? Typical Conservative. The only reason church's like the Catholics have their billions of dollars is because of the bleating idiots that hand their money over to them hand over fist with the failed promise of salvation.

Yes, I do my part to "save the world" when I can. Let me know if you're ever in a bind. I'll toss you a bone and a blanket and point you to the nearest bridgeOf course and if it does happen to me I dont
Of couprse
Sounds like you need to study nature some more or maybe you just fear death. Pretty condescending to think your above it all and have the right or capability to control the natural order of things with a system of man made rules that has consistenly proven to produce chaos and result in destruction. Whether you like it or not you live within the same laws of nature and fighting nature wont change it.
Typical liberal, keep your head in the sand rather than face the harsh reality that life is indeed a survival of the fittest. I didnt expect you would be able to understand and thats why your system is failing and perhaps why you have so much anger. Your stuck in the Matrix.

I dont fear death anymore and would rather jump off a bridge then take a dime from someone else or become a burden to society. I do my part by allowing you to keep your bone and blanket.
If I require your bone and blanket for my own survival then I should not be here. Would you have the courage to do the same thing or are you so selfish and content you would become someone elses burden?

 

[phixer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/60#post_3539234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixer http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/60#post_3539210


Im a mean cold heart person because I believe in the natural order of things.

No, you simply don't know what the "natural order of things" actually is. What sets us apart from the other mammals is our use of social groupings to provide what we like to call civilization, but is just extended care of all individuals in the group. While "social darwinism" is a concept bandied about, and is actually a bastardization of biological darwinism, civilization (that is, caring for those less well off) has a clear evolutionary advantage to the species in that it preserves the kinds of diversity that evolution (the biological type) requires. it is interesting that social darwinists always find that they constitute the highest form of survival of the fittest, surprise, surprise.
Sorry Doc, I have the utmost respect for you but the medical profession has exacerbated the problem because it seeks to preserve life in an overpopulated world with diminishing resources. I dont expect you may ever see it this way because of the commitment and dedication required of your profession. To see it differently would fundamentally undermine your lifes work.

In nature the weak do not survive therefore strengthening the species by not placing an undue hindrance on the rest of the heard.
There is a difference between living and surviving , or existing dependent upon machines becoming a burden to others due to ones own selfish fear of death.

I always found it interesting what happens to rats when they are crowded together, they become more aggressive. Was thinking about this in traffic today while watching the road rage all around us.

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixer http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539256
Doc, why does nature allow the weak to perish? Would a genetically predisposed condition be reduced or eliminated if there were no offspring of the parents? Within the entire universe Im inclined to believe there are higher life forms than humans.

It would certainly save a lot of money in your world without having to pay police or fire fighters. I don't think I would enjoy living in a place where someone stronger than me can just come and take all my stuff though.

 

[2quills]

In nature things don't typically regress, they just die off. Also, there is family and community structure within the animal kingdom if we look close enough not all that dissimilar from our own. And given thriving conditions nature can over populate and cause problems just like us.

 

[phixer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixer http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539256
Doc, why does nature allow the weak to perish? Would a genetically predisposed condition be reduced or eliminated if there were no offspring of the parents? Within the entire universe Im inclined to believe there are higher life forms than humans.

It would certainly save a lot of money in your world without having to pay police or fire fighters. I don't think I would enjoy living in a place where someone stronger than me can just come and take all my stuff though.
Sure would, and it's already that way Bang Guy, when was the last time the cops actually prevented a crime? They dont patrol or prevent crime, they react to crimes and then write reports after the fact. Personally, I have never had the need for a cop or firefighter. I remember the San Diego wildfires and living in CO the fires here not long ago. I confirmed that Im more effective and capable of protecting my property than either.

Criminals dont attempt to take your stuff because they perceive you as stronger than them.... not for fear of the law. It's simple, they dont want to get shot.

Laws make citizens weaker by imposing more restrictions on their freedom. Criminals don't obey laws or a moral code all they understand are the laws of nature.

 

[phixer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539265
In nature things don't typically regress, they just die off. Also, there is family and community structure within the animal kingdom if we look close enough not all that dissimilar from our own. And given thriving conditions nature can over populate and cause problems just like us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539265
In nature things don't typically regress, they just die off. Also, there is family and community structure within the animal kingdom if we look close enough not all that dissimilar from our own. And given thriving conditions nature can over populate and cause problems just like us.

Yes, providing the newborn animals are strong enough to survive to begin with. The runts and the weak are normally eaten. Sounds pretty barbaric I know but once the concept is understood it really makes sense, no burden on the herd and the species ensures it gets stronger by abandoning the weak. When the jackrabbits begin to overpopulate the snakes and hawks take care of them otherwise they consume all the food and starve to death. Disease and aggression also increases. Sound familliar? Cancer rates are increasing everywhere. Disease and crime flourish in overpopulated areas.

If man kind would only emulate and accept nature we wouldn't have these problems. Instead we seem to think it's our duty to control it.

 

[phixer]

Duplicate, sorry.

 

[2quills]

Yes, providing the newborn animals are strong enough to survive to begin with.  The runts and the weak are normally eaten.   Sounds pretty barbaric I know but once the concept is understood it really makes sense,  no burden on the herd and the species ensures it gets stronger by abandoning the weak.  When the jackrabbits begin to overpopulate the snakes and hawks take care of them otherwise they consume all the food and starve to death.  Disease and aggression also increases.  Sound familliar?     Cancer rates are increasing everywhere.  Disease and crime flourish in overpopulated areas. 
If man kind would only emulate and accept nature we wouldn't have these problems.   Instead we seem to think it's our duty to control it.     
So we should eliminate all health care from here on out is that what you're saying? Or would you prefer we start thinning the herd or both?
Sounds to me like asking man to live like an animal goes against our evolutionary adaptation. Wouldn't that be a bit unnatural for us to try to do? And wouldn't that still be considered control if it took a modern man to think of and implement staying connected to the natural balance?
Do you feel balanced?

 

[aggiealum]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539244
Let's make one thing VERY clear. The government is not picking up the cost. Taxpayers are, in one form or another. This is NOT cost reduction. This is cost SHIFTING.
When you say force states to kick in their share, are you speaking about the medicaid expansion aspect of the Bill?
How would you right a law to curb medical costs? It is a great idea in the abstract....but how do you apply it is the problem.
An the same taxpayers would be picking up the tab with that Republican option you posted. Instead of subsidizing premiums directly, the Republican option just does it through tax deductions, which in turn reduces revenues. So we pay either way. The only difference is the payback is flipped. With ACA, the lower and middle class gets the subsidies and assistance. With the Republican proposal, the wealthy and upper class get the subsidies because they have the means to reduce their taxes with expanded tax deductions than the lower and middle class.

The Medicaid expansion, and also creating the state-funded insurance pools, which would provide you more options.

How would you write the law? The same as you do any other as far as regulation. If you take the Capitalist view, you could never regulate or limit the amount of profits a company can make. However, should a pharmaceutical company be allowed to make a 400% profit on a specific drug? Look at how these companies manipulate the generic drug market. When I first started taking cholesterol medicine, the only one my doctor could prescribe to me was a name-brand that cost $50 a prescription to fill. The pharmaceutical that owned the rights to that drug had a generic version available for a tenth of the cost, but through lobbying and the backdoor dealings with the FDA, they were allowed to keep the generic version off the market for 2 or more years.

Right when ACA came out, the government began clamping down on the amount companies could charge back to Medicare and Medicaid. There was a thriving business called the Scooter Store here in Texas that was manipulating the Medicare laws in a way they could charge them $5K - $6K for a scooter for someone on that plan that could get the same mobility device for less than half the cost. Once the new Medicare regulations kicked in, that gravy train stopped and The Scooter Store went bankrupt and out of business. So was that the result of the evil federal government shutting down a profitable company, or a federal government looking out for its taxpayers by regulating how much a company or individual could charge back to one of the largest deficit generators we have today?

 

[aggiealum]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixer http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539255

Sounds like you need to study nature some more or maybe you just fear death. Pretty condescending to think your above it all and have the right or capability to control the natural order of things with a system of man made rules that has consistenly proven to produce chaos and result in destruction. Whether you like it or not you live within the same laws of nature and fighting nature wont change it.
Typical liberal, keep your head in the sand rather than face the harsh reality that life is indeed a survival of the fittest. I didnt expect you would be able to understand and thats why your system is failing and perhaps why you have so much anger. Your stuck in the Matrix.

I dont fear death anymore and would rather jump off a bridge then take a dime from someone else or become a burden to society. I do my part by allowing you to keep your bone and blanket.
If I require your bone and blanket for my own survival then I should not be here. Would you have the courage to do the same thing or are you so selfish and content you would become someone elses burden?
Now you sound like you're on that reality show Doomsday Preppers.

Our society hasn't thrived the way it has basing our laws on the natural order of life. You'd fit well in North Korea, or in Germany back in the days of Hitler. I suppose you're in favor of euthanasia? Cull out the herd by getting rid of those decrepit geriatrics that suck up your money by having to support their lives of popping multiple pills, and rolling around in a wheelchair all day in some nursing home. So when your parents get so old that they are unable to take care of themselves, or you just going to take them out to the Back Forty and put them out of their misery? Do you have some document written up that states that if you get to that point, or if tomorrow you get plowed into by an 18 wheeler and become a paraplegic, you want them to just put you out of your misery? I mean you would essentially become a burden to society and your family.

You say you don't fear death. That bold statement has been said many of times by people just like you, until you DO face death. Then attitudes change real quick. Is your defiance of death based on the supposition that there's some euphoric afterlife waiting for you? If that's the case, why wait?

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixer http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539271
Sure would, and it's already that way Bang Guy, when was the last time the cops actually prevented a crime? They dont patrol or prevent crime, they react to crimes and then write reports after the fact. Personally, I have never had the need for a cop or firefighter. I remember the San Diego wildfires and living in CO the fires here not long ago. I confirmed that Im more effective and capable of protecting my property than either.

Criminals dont attempt to take your stuff because they perceive you as stronger than them.... not for fear of the law. It's simple, they dont want to get shot.

Laws make citizens weaker by imposing more restrictions on their freedom. Criminals don't obey laws or a moral code all they understand are the laws of nature.
It's not that way, not even close. I agree with your synopsis of criminals but that's not whom I was referring to. There a LOTS of people in my community a lot stronger than me. They don't take my stuff because they are civilized and wish to remain a part of our civilized community. A community where we help each other out at the drop of a hat.

 

[darthtang aw]

An the same taxpayers would be picking up the tab with that Republican option you posted.  Instead of subsidizing premiums directly, the Republican option just does it through tax deductions, which in turn reduces revenues.  So we pay either way.  The only difference is the payback is flipped.  With ACA, the lower and middle class gets the subsidies and assistance. With the Republican proposal, the wealthy and upper class get the subsidies because they have the means to reduce their taxes with expanded tax deductions than the lower and middle class.
The Medicaid expansion, and also creating the state-funded insurance pools, which would provide you more options.
How would you write the law?  The same as you do any other as far as regulation.  If you take the Capitalist view, you could never regulate or limit the amount of profits a company can make.  However, should a pharmaceutical company be allowed to make a 400% profit on a specific drug?  Look at how these companies manipulate the generic drug market.  When I first started taking cholesterol medicine, the only one my doctor could prescribe to me was a name-brand that cost $50 a prescription to fill.  The pharmaceutical that owned the rights to that drug had a generic version available for a tenth of the cost, but through lobbying and the backdoor dealings with the FDA, they were allowed to keep the generic version off the market for 2 or more years.
Right when ACA came out, the government began clamping down on the amount companies could charge back to Medicare and Medicaid.  There was a thriving business called the Scooter Store here in Texas that was manipulating the Medicare laws in a way they could charge them $5K - $6K for a scooter for someone on that plan that could get the same mobility device for less than half the cost. Once the new Medicare regulations kicked in, that gravy train stopped and The Scooter Store went bankrupt and out of business.  So was that the result of the evil federal government shutting down a profitable company, or a federal government looking out for its taxpayers by regulating how much a company or individual could charge back to one of the largest deficit generators we have today?
I am middle class. My subsidy is squat when compared to the increase in my monthly premium to give access to crap I do not need, like mental health insurance, maternity insurance....etc....
The medicaid expansion was written into the law as mandatory. The states had to sign on, unfortunately the author did not consult the Supreme court first....probably to busy telling everyone we could keep our doctor and insurance if we liked it.
I am unclear what you mean on the insurance pools. Here in New mexico we didnt make our own pool, it was done on the federal level. The same companies in the pool are the same companies I have the option to go to period....So your telling me the insurance companies would have reduced their rate had the state set up the pool instead of the fed? I am missing something.
Sure drugs cost 400% more than to actually manufacture. but that percentage comes down considerably if you factor in the Research and development stage of the drugs and the trials as well...Drugs are patented, so generics can not be made till after so many years due to the patent. Do you change patent laws to curb this? I asked what you would change....how would you reduce the cost, you gave me examples of "extreme" cost in return without stating how you would correct this.
Also keep in mind, 50% of Texas doctors do NOT accept Medicaid........

 

[darthtang aw]

  Is your defiance of death based on the supposition that there's some euphoric afterlife waiting for you?  If that's the case, why wait?
I am pretty sure there are better ways to argue your point without implying the OP should kill themselves.
Expecting an alternate explanation of the statement as harmless in
3...
2....
1....
Darth (Selective compassion is awesome) Tang

 

[darthtang aw]

Phixer, do you have children?
Have you ever been to a doctor?
Have you ever taken antibiotics?
Did you build your home or did someone else?
Do you grow all your own food?
Is your water from the city or a well?
How are you generating electricity to operate your computer and keep your phone charged?
Do you own vehicles or travel by horse and buggy?
darth (Teaching bionic the correct way to make a point without being insulting) tang

 

[phixer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixer http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539272
Yes, providing the newborn animals are strong enough to survive to begin with. The runts and the weak are normally eaten. Sounds pretty barbaric I know but once the concept is understood it really makes sense, no burden on the herd and the species ensures it gets stronger by abandoning the weak. When the jackrabbits begin to overpopulate the snakes and hawks take care of them otherwise they consume all the food and starve to death. Disease and aggression also increases. Sound familliar? Cancer rates are increasing everywhere. Disease and crime flourish in overpopulated areas.
If man kind would only emulate and accept nature we wouldn't have these problems. Instead we seem to think it's our duty to control it.
So we should eliminate all health care from here on out is that what you're saying? Or would you prefer we start thinning the herd or both?
Sounds to me like asking man to live like an animal goes against our evolutionary adaptation. Wouldn't that be a bit unnatural for us to try to do? And wouldn't that still be considered control if it took a modern man to think of and implement staying connected to the natural balance?
Do you feel balanced?
All forms of govt welfare should be eliminated, the herd will thin itself. Man wont revert back to the stone age, the strongest will flourish and the weak will become extinct. Not if it's done gradually by dowsizing the government. The thing is some people (Like Aggie) are so dependent upon this system they need it for their survival so they defend it without realizing their freedom is being consumed by it a little bit at a time thru the enactment of more laws. They are in essence the frog being boiled alive. I feel sorry for him.

IMHO natural means what comes naturally. Human beings are already wired with the same instinctive nature for self preservation that the rest of the animal kindom has. Whats not natural are things like 2000 page laws, 5 minute traffic lights, endless waiting lines everywhere and a congress full of millionares getting paid to produce these problems. I dont know where these things come from?

Yes, I feel balanced and a sense of peace knowing that Im not my brothers keeper. Works for me at least.

 

[phixer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AggieAlum http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixer http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539255

Sounds like you need to study nature some more or maybe you just fear death. Pretty condescending to think your above it all and have the right or capability to control the natural order of things with a system of man made rules that has consistenly proven to produce chaos and result in destruction. Whether you like it or not you live within the same laws of nature and fighting nature wont change it.
Typical liberal, keep your head in the sand rather than face the harsh reality that life is indeed a survival of the fittest. I didnt expect you would be able to understand and thats why your system is failing and perhaps why you have so much anger. Your stuck in the Matrix.

I dont fear death anymore and would rather jump off a bridge then take a dime from someone else or become a burden to society. I do my part by allowing you to keep your bone and blanket.
If I require your bone and blanket for my own survival then I should not be here. Would you have the courage to do the same thing or are you so selfish and content you would become someone elses burden?
Now you sound like you're on that reality show Doomsday Preppers.

Our society hasn't thrived the way it has basing our laws on the natural order of life. You'd fit well in North Korea, or in Germany back in the days of Hitler. I suppose you're in favor of euthanasia? Cull out the herd by getting rid of those decrepit geriatrics that suck up your money by having to support their lives of popping multiple pills, and rolling around in a wheelchair all day in some nursing home. So when your parents get so old that they are unable to take care of themselves, or you just going to take them out to the Back Forty and put them out of their misery? Do you have some document written up that states that if you get to that point, or if tomorrow you get plowed into by an 18 wheeler and become a paraplegic, you want them to just put you out of your misery? I mean you would essentially become a burden to society and your family.

You say you don't fear death. That bold statement has been said many of times by people just like you, until you DO face death. Then attitudes change real quick. Is your defiance of death based on the supposition that there's some euphoric afterlife waiting for you? If that's the case, why wait?

"Why wait" ? somewhat hypocritical coming from a liberal who wants to save the world. Aggie all of your arguments are woven with hypocrisy, which is why you cant be taken seriously. You hate guns but yet you own them, you would "throw a bone to someone" and then point them to the nearest bridge. What's the point of arguing with you? Based on your historical trend of denying reality , arguing with you is a futile effort and waste of energy.

I didnt expect you to understand because your dependent upon this system for your security and survival, your judgement is impared by it and you dont even realize it. It also sounds like you fear death?

Yes, pretty much. Sure attitudes change, who knows maybe mine will? maybe yours will. I've faced death many times in many countries during many wars, and can only say what is here and now. Who knows whats on the other side? I just know that I have no right to encumber or burden society or (even you) with my own self created problems. It's not the responsibility of govt or anyone else to care for me.

 

[phixer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539304
Phixer, do you have children?
Have you ever been to a doctor?
Have you ever taken antibiotics?
Did you build your home or did someone else?
Do you grow all your own food?
Is your water from the city or a well?
How are you generating electricity to operate your computer and keep your phone charged?
Do you own vehicles or travel by horse and buggy?
darth (Teaching bionic the correct way to make a point without being insulting) tang
I try to remain as independent as possible Darth. Not perfect but I try not to burden anyone with my needs.
Kids are grown, only when ordered to do so when I was on active duty, no, I did, it took several years, no, I try to produce as much as I can and would say about 90% of it Im able to produce myself. I run 4 miles a day, lift weights and have a small indoor garden. I hunt turkey, quail, deer and elk, this is where most of my food comes from and its all GMO free. I use 2 wells and a lake (but use RODI for my tanks from municipal source), a small residental solar and wind power system that I designed and built myself. Im completely off the grid in terms of power consumption, I produce my own ethanol and bio deisel and use it to power my vehicles.

Im not completely independent but Im trying.

 

[phixer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phixer http:///t/397098/sure-you-can-have-health-insurance-not-sure-how-you-will-pay-for-it/80#post_3539271
Sure would, and it's already that way Bang Guy, when was the last time the cops actually prevented a crime? They dont patrol or prevent crime, they react to crimes and then write reports after the fact. Personally, I have never had the need for a cop or firefighter. I remember the San Diego wildfires and living in CO the fires here not long ago. I confirmed that Im more effective and capable of protecting my property than either.

Criminals dont attempt to take your stuff because they perceive you as stronger than them.... not for fear of the law. It's simple, they dont want to get shot.

Laws make citizens weaker by imposing more restrictions on their freedom. Criminals don't obey laws or a moral code all they understand are the laws of nature.
It's not that way, not even close. I agree with your synopsis of criminals but that's not whom I was referring to. There a LOTS of people in my community a lot stronger than me. They don't take my stuff because they are civilized and wish to remain a part of our civilized community. A community where we help each other out at the drop of a hat.
It is for me. Civility goes out the window when faced with self preservation. People will help each other only so much, then they will help themselves.

Just too many examples of this throughout history. I.e the lifeboat scenario, looting and what happens when people are crowded together with diminshing resources they dont get nicer, they become more aggressive.

I remember this when doing the disaster relief for Fukisima, all that gets documented is people helping each other out, crying, hugging and smiling because thats what we want to see. They dont print the stories of looting and theft that reflect the true nature of people when in desperate situations. I've seen it happen the world over even in Japan , a culture where self-preservation is taboo. If pushed enough very few will react favorably. Wish it wasnt so but I cant deny what I've seen. You may be right Bang Guy, I've just never experinced this and I believe I've experienced more than most.