Sweatervest's 125g reef build!!

[sweatervest13]

Here is a rough sketch up (and I mean rough, first time trying to draw on pics) So the light blue line is for the drain. There should be a 90deg turn to come out of the stand (towards the camera), then a 2nd 90deg to run the length of the tank through the wall. Should I put a ball valve on this long pipe??
Then the dark blue line is the return line (that maybe a soft plumbed line).
Sump in fish room. At this point would I want to split the line to go to the skimmer?? Hold on... If the skimmer is in sump it does not need a line right? Ya thats right... Kinda of making this up as I go. LoL Disregard the light blue line into the skimmer. I would just have a line going to the media box. Then the black box is the return pump back to the DT.
Would I want a ball valve on the return line as well in case for maintenance??? Can you do a ball valve on a flex line??
I am sorry I am leaning on you two so much, but this is the first time I am dealing with plumbing. It was said earlier that it is my build. But I am very open to suggestions on what has worked for you guys in the past. Let me know what you think of the ideas. BTW the drain pipe said it was SCH 40. But that was on the outside of the large connection so IDK if that is the actual out to the sump.

 

[2quills]

The drain pipe being Sch 40 makes more sense. He was probably just refering to it as thin wall as apposed to the heavy duty Sch 80.
What is in that media box? Or what is designed to be in it? Bio media perhaps or is it mechanical filtration?
This was kind of the idea I was thinking off. Running your plumbing along the back wall so that you could support it to the wall and possibly paint it the same color as the wall to help keep it from being real noticeable for a cleaner look. In the drawing I show the drain line being split, one pipe going to the skimmer and one to the fuge. I would maybe do an open pipe to the skimmer and the have the split side going to the fuge connect to your media box.

 

[sweatervest13]

I think that looks great. I was going to paint the back wall and maybe the two other sides of the cove. That would hide the lines real nice and make the wife real happy. The fish room is 6'2"X9'4" but the wall to the DT is 2/3rds drywall and the 1/3 cement. It is 4' of drywall and I would think that some of that is built out four inches of wall behind the DT. The sump is 36" lond and could just be rotated clockwise in the sketch. I was going to make a little crude stand with a bottom shelf almost/if not on the ground and a high top about 42-46 inches up. That should give me a ton of room to service the sump and skimmer. I will take a pic of a work bench I built. I want to see if you guys think that it would support everything. I think it would, but better to check twice. I would change the size a bit on the new fish bench but it is easy to build and I have extra stuff to build it with.
For the plumbing I would need to get sch 40 pvc, a bunch of 90 deg turns, at least 2 ball valves. What do I need to get to be able to remove or service a pipe or skimmer, like a disconnect piece? Well I don't plan on getting to the hardware store too soon, maybe the weekend.
Thanks for making the drawing!!

 

[2quills]

The disconnect pieces you are refering to are called "unions". They unscrew and allow you to seperate the pipe. You can see I have a bunch of them on mine because my plumbing is fully dissambleable.



You can see in the last 2 pics the long sweep 90 degree elbows I was talking about. You'd have to upsize your plumbing to 1.5" pipe to use those. Also you can see the plastic conduit clips I used to help support the pipes to the stand.

 

[sweatervest13]

Cool. Nice set up BTW!!
For the 90 degree turns, I take it that it will slow the water down and cause more resistance. Does this matter as much on the drain line as gravity will help get the water to the sump? Or, does it effect the return line more as I would need a larger pump to get the water up to the tank and thru the turns?
Do the unions slow down the water?
I looks like with your set up that you have two overflows. I have the one so if I try to make mine could I just do what one of your overflows looks like. I would come from the bottom and need a 90 degree turn towards the back wall, I will have about a foot to travel to the wall, I think that is a good place for a union. Do the unions come in different sizes? You mentioned upsizing the plumbing to 1.5". Can that be done with the size of the overflow drain line that i have now? I could also put the ball valve on the line going to the wall. Will I have enough room to put the valve and union for that foot long pipe? If not once its at the wall I need an 90 degree turn to the left towards the fish rooom, I could always put the valve on the line there (it will be a longer piece about 4'). It would not be a bad idea to put another union on this as well. The long pvc will go into the fish room and then the last 90 degree turn down into the sump.
The return line will kind of follow the same path put a smaller line. I could put a union right by the other for the drain line and a ball valve as well. Do you see any reason that I would need two ball valves on each line, one by the DT and one in the fish room? I am starting to see that this is a pretty permanent way of doing the plumbing so a bit of overdoing it to make it more serviceable later is good.
Something else that I was thinking about was to adding a frag tank in the fish room. I was able to pick up two 24"x24"x11" tanks with a 3/4" or 1" hole in the bottom of the tank. $10.00 each!! The only question I have now is: If I want it plumbed to the sump do I need to plan that now, or can I wait and add it in later? Or should I keep the frag tank seperate in its own system?
I think that I am going to really like having the setup this way with a fish room. It is a lot of work but will be worth it. I can't imagine how some people set up systems in a week or two. This is a long slow process. But I LOVE IT!!

 

[acrylic51]

Nice setup Corey!!!!!
I thought you were looking at the MagDrive as your return pump? You'd honestly see no gain really in upsizing to 1.5" using the Mag for a return. I'd suggest looking at an external pump since everything will be remote. The sweeps are sweet!!!!! I'd use them on the drain side as well.

 

[2quills]

Hey guys.
Shawn, if you were asking me in regaurds to the mag pump then no I plan on using an eheim pump. Less heat transfer. I'd like to get away with not having to run a chiller if I can. So looking to minimize heat however I can. In regards to the 1.5" plumbing that would be for the drain line only.
Ryan, yes unions come in all sizes from 1/2" - 2" I believe, maybe even bigger. You only have a single 1" drain inside your tank so the idea of using 1.5" the rest of the way to help minimize any restriction in flow would be a good idea in my opinion. Might as well maximize what you have and make the best of it, so 1.5" will help, especially since alot of your plumbing will be run horizontally. You'll probably want to pitch it slightly to give gravity a hand.
A 1" drain is only going to give you approximately 600gph drain capacity safely. So I wouldn't try and push it any more than that. So typically for the size of pump you'll be using a 3/4" - 1" return line will be all you need. If you want to run a 1" to help minimize friction from the fittings such as the elbows and unions then I say go for it. Personally I'd run flexible pvc pipe for the return line because I think you can do it without having to use any 90's.
One valve on each is probably all you're going to need. I have two on mine so I'll have total control of how much water I send to the refugium side of my sump. Although I'll probably only ever have to use one, I have the other one just in case.
You could plumb the frag tank to the sump now or later, it really doesn't matter. Personally, your sump is a little on the smaller side so I'd leave it for the big tank. But some people like to plumb their display and frag tanks together so they really don't have to acclimate anything when moving stuff over.

 

[sweatervest13]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/385156/sweatervest-s-125g-reef-build/60#post_3391218
Hey guys.
Shawn, if you were asking me in regaurds to the mag pump then no I plan on using an eheim pump. Less heat transfer. I'd like to get away with not having to run a chiller if I can. So looking to minimize heat however I can. In regards to the 1.5" plumbing that would be for the drain line only.
Ryan, yes unions come in all sizes from 1/2" - 2" I believe, maybe even bigger. You only have a single 1" drain inside your tank so the idea of using 1.5" the rest of the way to help minimize any restriction in flow would be a good idea in my opinion. Might as well maximize what you have and make the best of it, so 1.5" will help, especially since alot of your plumbing will be run horizontally. You'll probably want to pitch it slightly to give gravity a hand.
A 1" drain is only going to give you approximately 600gph drain capacity safely. So I wouldn't try and push it any more than that. So typically for the size of pump you'll be using a 3/4" - 1" return line will be all you need. If you want to run a 1" to help minimize friction from the fittings such as the elbows and unions then I say go for it. Personally I'd run flexible pvc pipe for the return line because I think you can do it without having to use any 90's.
One valve on each is probably all you're going to need. I have two on mine so I'll have total control of how much water I send to the refugium side of my sump. Although I'll probably only ever have to use one, I have the other one just in case.
You could plumb the frag tank to the sump now or later, it really doesn't matter. Personally, your sump is a little on the smaller side so I'd leave it for the big tank. But some people like to plumb their display and frag tanks together so they really don't have to acclimate anything when moving stuff over.
Okay thanks. I will go with upsizing the drain line to 1.5" and keep the return line the same size. Now when you say flexible pvc pipe is that the same as like the clear plastic tubing that I use for water changes? I cut some and that is what I have on the return line now. I think it might be different. I will prob wait on the frag tank. It has a hole in the bottom but no overflow so I will need to make one or buy one.
I was planning on doing an internal pump. I need to price some out. Right now I bought a cheapo one for $50.00, its a Oddssea (sp) 700. I needed a pump for the Brute can for water changes anyways. I see that Corey you are going with the Ehiem (sp) pump. Are those a bit morer expensive? What are some other good pumps?

 

[2quills]

Flexible pvc pipe...aka (spa flex). It's different from the clear vinyl tube. It's basically pvc but flexible and you can glue it to regular pvc fittings the same way you would with regular pvc. The best place to find it is either at Lowes or a pool and spa supply store. The home depot down here usually doesn't have it. I think they only carry it in one size. Lowes or pool supply is your best bet.

I threw together a couple of pieces that I had laying around to give you an idea of how to connect the plumbing to your bulkheads and how you can put a union on there. But I only had one spare union laying around so i couldn't give you the whole picture of how to run it. But I think you'll get the idea. Basically you just need a 1"x1.5" adapter. Also you can see a piece of the flexible pvc I used on the back of my tank for the drains as they first come out of the tank with the unions on them.


Yeah I'm going with an Ehiem pump. They are a little more expensive than most internal pumps but they are worth it. They have a long proven track record for being reliable, low heat transfer, powerful and quiet. The Mag pumps are popular as well for the price. Eheim has another line of pumps called their Compact line. They are a little more compact and have adjustable output flow control. They are a little cheaper. Although I don't think they are actually made by Eheim, they are made by Hydor (koralia) and are sold under the Eheim name. A couple of people here have purchased them and really like them. But they are rather new to the hobby so I don't know how well they hold up long term yet or how much heat they transfer to the tank. It hit 107 with the heat index down here today so I don't want to take any chances with heat. I don't even run a heater on my other tank any more. With the 4 power heads and two filter pumps my tank stays at 80 no matter what time of year it is.
I'll be going with the classic 1260 or 1262 Eheim pump.

 

[acrylic51]

Corey did you advise that you can't use regular PVC glue on the SpaFlex tubing???? Only catching bits and pieces being on the road.....
Ryan, how far is the run from the sump to the DT?

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/385156/sweatervest-s-125g-reef-build/60#post_3391327
Corey did you advise that you can't use regular PVC glue on the SpaFlex tubing???? Only catching bits and pieces being on the road.....
Ryan, how far is the run from the sump to the DT?
What are you still doing on the road this time of night? You should be at home planning your led build.
No I hadn't gotten that far. I actually got involved in a thread over on the big site about the glue situation and spa flex. Seems that every body is using something different and no one is reporting any issue with any of the glues. For drains you might be able to get away with regular pvc glue or even the all purpose stuff.
But I think the general consensus is that the blue glues are the way to go for pressure applications on a return line as they have some flexibility to them when cured.
Christys Red Hot Blue Glue
Weld-on 747
Oatey's rain or shine medium bodied glue.
Those are some blue glues that will work.
I noticed a couple of weeks ago that home depot had started carrying the Christys blue glue, they had it in it's own display. The Oatey brand you can probably find at lowes. Weld-on will probably have to be ordered online. Basically all of the rain or shine glues are blue glues and meant for outdoor applications like sprinkler systems...etc. Any type of application where a glue with a little bit of flexibility is required. That's what you want.

 

[acrylic51]

Being "live loaded" as we speak!!!!!!!

Oatey's you will find at Lowes....I seen it the other weekend I was browsing... Working on the LED as we speak....I talked to a guy today, and he suggested the inventronics. It can drive up to 81 LEDS in series, but advised him not interested in that driver due to the mere fact of having to possibly pot them in epoxy, and makes changes out very hard and tedious. I've done enough work with epoxy and no darn well it's not easily removed.....Regardless what anyone says....I dripped some in a PVC fitting and it was "****" getting it cleaned up. I might have to seriously sit down and work out the game plan on exact number of LEDS and numbers of colors as well and decide on drivers that way. The driver boxes Duo 700 still hasn't been ruled out though.....
I seen in an earlier post about Ryan using an internal pump? I think the Eheim would be rather taxed for run of pvc and then the head to lift it as well????

 

[2quills]

That's true. Ryan, shoot us a measurement of what you think the total length of return pipe will be from the pump itself all the way to the top of your overflow inside the display tank. That will be the determining factor on what size of pump you'll need.

 

[sweatervest13]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/385156/sweatervest-s-125g-reef-build/60#post_3391344
That's true. Ryan, shoot us a measurement of what you think the total length of return pipe will be from the pump itself all the way to the top of your overflow inside the display tank. That will be the determining factor on what size of pump you'll need.
The return line will be a little over half the length of the tank (like 3') plus the distance from the side wall (about a foot) and then to go through the wall and into the sump (maybe a foot and a half). So the length would be 3+1+1.5=5.5' for the horizontal line. Then it goes up about 4' or 4.5' total from where the pump would be in the sump to the top of the return line. I am not sure if I am thinking about that correctly, but I think its right.
I don't think that I will have any issues with the tank overheating. Its in the basement and it stays pretty cool down there.
Corey, you asked about the media box. It is for what ever you would want to put in it. It's kind of like a filter sock but you could also put carbon or GFO in there. There are six holes on one side and three holes on the other side. The 6 holes drain into the fuge section of the sump, and the 3 go into the skimmer section. Do you think that I would need to split the drain line? One to the skimmer section and one to the media box. The box slides on the rails and could all go into the skimmer section or the fuge section. Don't I want the really dirty water to go directly to the skimmer? Is running it through the box kinda going out of turn?

 

[acrylic51]

In my honest opinion the Eheim or any internal/submersible would be adequate for the remote application.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///forum/thread/385156/sweatervest-s-125g-reef-build/60#post_3391400

The return line will be a little over half the length of the tank (like 3') plus the distance from the side wall (about a foot) and then to go through the wall and into the sump (maybe a foot and a half). So the length would be 3+1+1.5=5.5' for the horizontal line. Then it goes up about 4' or 4.5' total from where the pump would be in the sump to the top of the return line. I am not sure if I am thinking about that correctly, but I think its right.
I don't think that I will have any issues with the tank overheating. Its in the basement and it stays pretty cool down there.
Corey, you asked about the media box. It is for what ever you would want to put in it. It's kind of like a filter sock but you could also put carbon or GFO in there. There are six holes on one side and three holes on the other side. The 6 holes drain into the fuge section of the sump, and the 3 go into the skimmer section. Do you think that I would need to split the drain line? One to the skimmer section and one to the media box. The box slides on the rails and could all go into the skimmer section or the fuge section. Don't I want the really dirty water to go directly to the skimmer? Is running it through the box kinda going out of turn?
Yeah I'd split the drain and have about 2/3rds of the dirty water going directly into the skimmer area and the other 1/3rd of the flow going through the media box.
So you have about 10' run of return pluming all together and 4.5' of that is height. Probably Eheim 1262 pump, or Mag 9.5, or Eheim Compact 3000 would work good. You live up north and your tank is in the basement you won't have the same heat issues that I do hopefully. Mags put out a fair amount of heat which isn't an all bad thing in the winter time. Less work for the heater to have to do.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///forum/thread/385156/sweatervest-s-125g-reef-build/60#post_3391400

The return line will be a little over half the length of the tank (like 3') plus the distance from the side wall (about a foot) and then to go through the wall and into the sump (maybe a foot and a half). So the length would be 3+1+1.5=5.5' for the horizontal line. Then it goes up about 4' or 4.5' total from where the pump would be in the sump to the top of the return line. I am not sure if I am thinking about that correctly, but I think its right.
I don't think that I will have any issues with the tank overheating. Its in the basement and it stays pretty cool down there.
Corey, you asked about the media box. It is for what ever you would want to put in it. It's kind of like a filter sock but you could also put carbon or GFO in there. There are six holes on one side and three holes on the other side. The 6 holes drain into the fuge section of the sump, and the 3 go into the skimmer section. Do you think that I would need to split the drain line? One to the skimmer section and one to the media box. The box slides on the rails and could all go into the skimmer section or the fuge section. Don't I want the really dirty water to go directly to the skimmer? Is running it through the box kinda going out of turn?
Looking over your calculations for head pressure.....You calculate horizontal runs a little different than vertical runs. For every 10' of horizontal pipe run is equivalent to 1' of head pressure. I would look and see if you can find head specs on the Eheims.....You might get away with a 1260 or a 1262 if you can find 1.

 

[sweatervest13]

I have some progress to report. Things have been a bit crazy around our house so far this summer (It seems like everyone is super busy as weel , but I carved out some time Saturday evening to make the bench/stand for the fish room. I just threw something together real quick but I think that it will work. It is just a plain 6'X2' bench. It is about 44" high so I have plenty of room to service the sump. I am going to put some paint on it to help waterproof it but I can do that this week after work. I will post a pic or two tonight.
I felt motivated after getting the bench done so I went back to lowes and wanted to start picking up some of the plumbing stuff. WOW, I felt very lost!!!
I stood in the isle at Lowe's for an hour just stairing at all the PVC stuff. I could not figure out what I needed or how to do it. I finally got a guy and asked for help and then was even more lost.
As per Corey's suggestion I want to upsize the drain line to 1.5". So, I started to look at stuff for the 1.5". Road block right out of the gate, I could not find a piece to get from the 1" drain I have now to go to the 1.5". The guy there said I need to use a Bushing. Not an adaptor. He said to use this.
LASCO 1 1/2" X 1" PVC Pressure Sch 40 Bushing
I am not sure why this and not an adaptor?
Also, on some of the fittings there are threads to screw them on and some look like you glue (I have seen the kinda purple PVC glue, but that is all I know about it). I asked the guy about using unions and he said I can't because the pipes need to be glued.
I am lost. I am going to post some part #'s from Lowes for the fittings and maybe you guys can help me figure this out. I don't want to get discouraged. But I really need some HELP!!!

 

[sweatervest13]

I posted something in the new hobbist area as well. I am looking to get some input on skimmers. I am really leaning towards the Reef Octopus Extreme XS 160 Protein Skimmer. What are your guys thoughts on this unit?
Also, I am thinking I want the Mag 12 Pump. That should be more then enough for what I need. Right?
Also, I am thinking about ordering a couple of power heads. I eventually want to get some MP40's but that is down the line maybe a year off or so. What do you guys think about a (1)Koralia Evolution 1400GPH and (1) of the 1050GPH? These would be new. I have a maxi-Jet 1200 and a Koralia Evo 1050 now to move over to the new tank. Or would it be better just to get (2) of the 1400's ??? Could I use just the two 1400's and the return pump for flow in this 125g?

 

[2quills]

Sure, post up the picks and lets see what you got. Bushings/adapters it's all the same to me, technically they are called bushings. I don't remember if I asked or not but are your bulkheads threaded or slip type? Slip type means the kind you glue. The purple stuff you are talking about is actually primer, so you need the purple primer and glue.
Contrary to what the "expert" at Lowes told you they do make unions that are the threaded type as well as the slip type. And yes, they sell them both there. But you should only need to slip type unions, those are what I'm using.
The reef octo skimmer is a descent skimmer. I think the swc 180 is probably better, or even the super reef octopus 2000. For the money the swc 180 is a good choice. That's the one I'm shooting for anyways.
Deffinately go with at least two of the 1400gph koralias if not four. Or two of the 1400's and two 1050's.