This is interesting.

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/20#post_3517173
But we allow people in every day for breaking the laws of their country. Heck, Haitians just have to touch dry land and they are in no questions asked.
Like I said earlier, if it were up to me I would turn them around. We have plenty of criminals here without importing more.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
ArLike I said earlier, if it were up to me I would turn them around.  We have plenty of criminals here without importing more.
are you serious? Criminals? For want to home school their children which is against a hitler era law? A bit more info. The were granted asylum by an immigration judge. It was homeland security that has revoked it.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Well, like I said before. I actually agree with the family about home schooling.
However if they go home and make things right, they have a US citizen as the youngest member of the family. A direct in for applying for a visa, they won't be turned down. Pay the fines and come on back. If all you folks really think that they should be allowed in...help them pay their fines so they can set things right, start up a special fund raising thing to get the money they need. Put your money where your mouth is.
Heroine is legal in a certain country, if a drug dealer/user flees to there to be free to deal/take the drug of choice...nobody cares, however if they were facing jail time and heavy fines back in America...they would be shipped home if they are found out. You may say that drugs and home schooling are two different things, but actually it isn't...what is permitted by one country is not permitted in others, and if you break the law, you pay the piper...not run away.
They are not persecuted, nobody threatened to harm them, they got a fine, didn't pay it and kept doing the wrong
, so they got fined over and over again...that's why the fine is so large. It wasn't a one time incident, then got hit with a $9000.00 fine. Once the fine got so large they fled the country and came here under false pretenses to avoid the laws and the accumulated fines.
What really burns my butt is this...It's okay to stand up for what you feel is right. But be prepared to take the consequences for those actions. I read about a group once that decided they didn't like how the government spent their taxes (I don't like how they spend my money either), but they refused to pay any taxes. They acted all surprised when they lost their homes to foreclosure for taxes owed, they were given warning upon warning. Once they lost their battle, they then proceeded to harass the folks who purchased their homes from the government. The new owners had no idea, they just got a home cheap. The group busted the windows to the house scaring the children, and camped out in their yard to throw stuff at their kids when they went to school. Then these same people were all upset that they got arrested for that, and declared they were religiously persecuted for standing up to the government on their belief that the government should not use their tax dollars for those on welfare to get abortions. Since abortion was a hot topic, the folks in the media had a field day.
This family has essentially done the same thing. They wanted to make a stand, but not take responsibility for the consequences. Religion is a hot topic...and the media is at it again. Bottom line...this family handled things the wrong way and compiled a hefty fine in doing so. Then fled the country to get out of paying it, with the ridiculous claim they got a $9000.00 fine because they were religiously persecuted.
I don't agree with many of the things the public school teaches...I just tell my kids at home what I consider to be the truth. I don't agree with how the government spends my taxes, but I don't thumb my nose at the law...I find ways to express my dislikes in a legal way to make sure my family suffers no harm, it's was more important to me that I can keep a roof over their head. JMO
 

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/20#post_3517182
Ar
are you serious? Criminals? For want to home school their children which is against a hitler era law? A bit more info. The were granted asylum by an immigration judge. It was homeland security that has revoked it.
I'm serious. They broke a law and fled to avoid paying a fine.
 

acrylic51

Active Member
I agree with Flower and Bang on this one.....There country has a law that makes it illegal, they broke the law.....Go back and face the penalties.....I don't believe in the born here automatic citizenship for the family though....That I feel should be revoked and make them all apply for a visa......
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/20#post_3517178
Like I said earlier, if it were up to me I would turn them around. We have plenty of criminals here without importing more.
They haven't violated any US law. By your standard we should not allow anyone asylum which is granted for people who are persecuted in their homeland by laws seen as unreasonable in our country.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Based off Bang and Flowers view the following should not have been granted asylum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zsef_Mindszenty
Tried and convicted in court for crimes against hungarian government.
Or this guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._M._Dimitrov
Or this guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Guangcheng
Bob Marley...
Henry Kissinger, after all, it was Law to round up jews in germany at the time...when his family sought asylum.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Not to mention the fact that under current 0bama administration policy had this family entered the country illegally they wouldn't be messed with. I don't get it.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/20#post_3517207
Based off Bang and Flowers view the following should not have been granted asylum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zsef_Mindszenty
Tried and convicted in court for crimes against hungarian government.
Or this guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._M._Dimitrov
Or this guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Guangcheng
Bob Marley...
Henry Kissinger, after all, it was Law to round up jews in germany at the time...when his family sought asylum.
Why do you say that? Did they refuse to send their kids to school?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Ok, if an immigrant tries to escape the totalitarian laws of their country by legally coming to USA, then they need to be deported.
However, if an illegal immigrant breaks our own law by coming to USA illegally, then they are granted amnesty.
WOW.
 

bang guy

Moderator
I'm no fan of President Obama but he has deported more illegals and the previous several Presidents combined.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
TruI'm no fan of President Obama but he has deported more illegals and the previous several Presidents combined.
true. But in this case they were already granted amnesty/asylum by a judge based on their case. It is homeland security stepping in and revoking it. Are they a security risk suddenly? Their case was already reviewed. Asylum is not easily gained. It is scrutinized severely on a cas by case basis. Maybe 20 in 55000 are granted asylum here annually. Homeland security has become a growing monster and to me this is just one example.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member

Why do you say that?  Did they refuse to send their kids to school?
No but they did break the laws of their country which is your entire basis for revoking asylum. Like you said. Law is law. Doesn't matter how morally wrong the law is. Criminals should not be allowed in.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/20#post_3517223
Ok, if an immigrant tries to escape the totalitarian laws of their country by legally coming to USA, then they need to be deported. The family in question is not legally here, if they lied to get in. They committed a crime in their home country and fled to get out of the huge pile of fines they got from breaking their home countries laws over and over again.
However, if an illegal immigrant breaks our own law by coming to USA illegally, then they are granted amnesty. If they break OUR laws, they can be and are deported. The only illegal thing the Mexicans you refer to did, was cross the boarder to come to the USA...they did not commit a crime in their home country, and then flee to escape the punishment. If they did, they would be deported home to face the charges and punishment.
WOW.
The reason for our country to insist on a visa is because of what happened with Cuba, they sent all their undesirables to us. We want to make sure we are not allowing criminals into our country to maim and hurt our people. The big fit folks have started screaming about illegals taking jobs from Americans is kind of new twist on how many we allow in. The sheer numbers is so much that we had to do something to stop it. Originally it wasn't about numbers, it was about what kind of people we were accumulating. Our creed was to bring in the homeless, the persecuted and all that noble stuff...not send us your criminals, your murderers, you disgruntled who doesn't like their own laws and won't obey them, and so flee to avoid the consequences.
I'm sorry but a family sneaking into our country to work and feed their own families are not bad folks, they are poor and wanting a better life for their kids. That doesn't mean undesirables are not sneaking in or lying on an asylum application.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/20#post_3517226
I'm no fan of President Obama but he has deported more illegals and the previous several Presidents combined.
Actually no, he hasn't
https://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/february-12-2013/how-obama-administration-inflates-deportation-statistics.html
Not only are they cooking the books, many of those "deportees" are people who voluntarily turn themselves in to take advantage of a free plane ride to Mexico City and a bus ticket to their home city. Those people left due to our crappy economy and foolish policies and yet more freebees for them.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/20#post_3517232
The reason for our country to insist on a visa is because of what happened with Cuba, they sent all their undesirables to us. We want to make sure we are not allowing criminals into our country to maim and hurt our people. The big fit folks have started screaming about illegals taking jobs from Americans is kind of new twist on how many we allow in. The sheer numbers is so much that we had to do something to stop it. Originally it wasn't about numbers, it was about what kind of people we were accumulating. Our creed was to bring in the homeless, the persecuted and all that noble stuff...not send us your criminals, your murderers, you disgruntled who doesn't like their own laws and won't obey them, and so flee to avoid the consequences.
I'm sorry but a family sneaking into our country to work and feed their own families are not bad folks, they are poor and wanting a better life for their kids. That doesn't mean undesirables are not sneaking in or lying on an asylum application.
So Flower, You say "They lied to get in". Do you care to share your basis for that claim with the rest of the class? According to the article
"ICE would not provide details about the case, or its reasons for pursuing the Romeikes.
'We do not comment on pending litigation,' ICE public affairs officer Brandon Montgomery told MailOnline"
And as far as this only being about the fine
"But the practice is illegal in Germany. An estimated 200 families teach their own children there anyway, even at the risk of fines, criminal prosecution and, in some cases, the loss of custody of their children."
Had these people indeed entered illegally or lied to gain access then by all means toss them but yet again we see this administration not being forthcoming with facts.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Flower. They didn't lie about the fines or their reasons to get in. There is a news story about the family you can google that was written back when they first applied for asylum. They disclosed the fines and penalties their government had imposed. So again. Why should they be sent back and not a family that broke our law to sneak into the country but are still good citizens. I am seeing some hypocrisy.
I am curious how many actually did some more digging about this family? I read several stories on them. Did anyone else?
 

reefraff

Active Member
Had the family been denied in the first place I wouldn't really think much about it although it seems odd that we'd grant blanket asylum to people who happen to be from a crappy country but not those being specifically persecuted in their home country. The fine might seem like a trivial thing but these people also face the possibility of jail time or to have their kids taken away.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/20#post_3517240
Flower. They didn't lie about the fines or their reasons to get in. There is a news story about the family you can google that was written back when they first applied for asylum. They disclosed the fines and penalties their government had imposed. So again. Why should they be sent back and not a family that broke our law to sneak into the country but are still good citizens. I am seeing some hypocrisy.
I am curious how many actually did some more digging about this family? I read several stories on them. Did anyone else?
Hi Darth,
I'm kind of on the families side, what a dumb reason to deport them after giving them the go-ahead. It isn't like they are murderers or something. Personally, I think Germany kicked a fit, and got the whole thing looked at again. Something sure hit the fan to get this all stirred up. There is more to the story, and it isn't determined yet if they will be deported...it's being investigated. Honestly, if they asked for money to pay that fine so they can stay...I would pitch in a little, and if America did get behind them...other folks would to. I don't now how to do such a thing or I would start it.
I don't think they were right for fleeing after they ran up such a fine...but I do understand not wanting your kids exposed to the public schools. LOL...I'm also a bleeding heart for the Mexicans who want to come to our country to have a better life for their kids. I do understand why we can't let everyone come to our country, we would not be able to take care of ourselves or them.
 
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