This is interesting.

beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
No kidding. A lot of assumptions about the family lying to get asylum and just trying to escape paying fines or breaking law in Germany. I have not read that anywhere. Actually, it is not easy to get asylum. And the circumstances are investigated prior to approving it. This family was granted asylum in the USA.
In 1935 Nazi Germany outlawed Jewish children from attending school. Also in 1935, Nazi Germany outlawed marriages between Jews and non-Jews, including existing marriages. Many Jews, seeing the hand-writing on the wall fled Germany for other countries to escape discrimination and totalitarianism. I guess it was just wrong for these other countries, including our own, to allow them to seek asylum??? They were just law-breakers in Germany.
I'm guessing the Obama Adm got a phone call from Germany complaining that it just did not look too good for a German citizen to be granted asylum from persecution. This is the real story.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/40#post_3517245
I'm guessing the Obama Adm got a phone call from Germany complaining that it just did not look too good for a German citizen to be granted asylum from persecution. This is the real story.
That's why I said I THINK...I do believe that is exactly what happened. Germany complained. Germany probably complained that it wasn't religious persecution, which would put them in a bad light.
The family is being investigated, they are either being accused of lying or at the very least, they were not really persecuted, therefore it's all assumption on any ones part. The media only tells us what they want us to know, and the media even refused to release all the details.
Personally...I don't like people using religion to hide behind for dumb reasons. Religious persecution can be deadly for the people who are really persecuted, and political asylum laws were passed to help those people, just like the protective orders. People abuse the system until nobody takes it serious anymore. We really need our government to take those situations seriously.
I am of the opinion, that if a person is not under threat of being killed, or imprisoned... but is just fined for many infractions...that isn't persecution. The family, IF what we read has a shred of truth...kept doing the wrong and accumulated that hefty fine, they could have avoided all that trouble if they would have paid the first fine, and then apply to come to our country, giving their reason to home school their own children. Then follow the laws of the land (as is instructed in scripture by the way) until they could get out. This is all because they didn't like the public school systems teachings...Instead they (granted, according to what has been published) built up $9000.00 worth of fines, and then began to cry religious persecution.
Now what if this family is into...lets say Wicca? Who believe the goddess created everything after a big war with some other god. The point is...folks just assumed they are Christian. What if they are Hindus, and were asked to dissect a frog in school, whom they believe was their long lost Uncle Charlie? Under those circumstances, I'm sure you would all say...let the kids go to school to learn those beliefs are nonsense! LOL...I know I would feel differently about the "religious persecution" of not being allowed to teach your own kids what you believe, if I thought that belief was out in left field some where.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
My personal belief is that parents have the right and the obligation to care for their kids, not the state. I don't know what religion they are, and I don't care either.
Germany, on the other hand, wants everyone growing up as German state-approved drones.
Quote:
According to Staff Attorney Michael P. Donnelly, HSLDA’s [Home School Legal Defense Association) contact attorney for Germany, "German homeschoolers, of which there are few because of the persecution, are fined thousands of dollars, sent to prison or have the custody of their children taken away. Many of these families have fled Germany when threatened with the custody of their children. Some have told me that they are willing to go to jail for their beliefs if they have to, but they will not allow the state to take their children. This year alone nearly a dozen families have fled this in the face of this harsh persecution.”
The Supreme Court of Germany declared that the purpose of the German ban on homeschooling was to “counteract the development of religious and philosophically motivated parallel societies.”
If this isn't scary, for an alleged free western country, nothing is.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

That's why I said I THINK...I do believe that is exactly what happened. Germany complained. Germany probably complained that it wasn't religious persecution, which would put them in a bad light.
The family is being investigated, they are either being accused of lying or at the very least, they were not really persecuted, therefore it's all assumption on any ones part. The media only tells us what they want us to know, and the media even refused to release all the details.
Personally...I don't like people using religion to hide behind for dumb reasons. Religious persecution can be deadly for the people who are really persecuted, and political asylum laws were passed to help those people, just like the protective orders. People abuse the system until nobody takes it serious anymore. We really need our government to take those situations seriously.
I am of the opinion, that if a person is not under threat of being killed, or imprisoned... but is just fined for many infractions...that isn't persecution. The family, IF what we read has a shred of truth...kept doing the wrong and accumulated that hefty fine, they could have avoided all that trouble if they would have paid the first fine, and then apply to come to our country, giving their reason to home school their own children. Then follow the laws of the land (as is instructed in scripture by the way) until they could get out. This is all because they didn't like the public school systems teachings...Instead they (granted, according to what has been published) built up $9000.00 worth of fines, and then began to cry religious persecution.
Now what if this family is into...lets say Wicca? Who believe the goddess created everything after a big war with some other god. The point is...folks just assumed they are Christian. What if they are Hindus, and were asked to dissect a frog in school, whom they believe was their long lost Uncle Charlie? Under those circumstances, I'm sure you would all say...let the kids go to school to learn those beliefs are nonsense! LOL...I know I would feel differently about the "religious persecution" of not being allowed to teach your own kids what you believe, if I thought that belief was out in left field some where.
What we have here is failure to communicate.
Flower, they do face jail time and the removal of their children. All due to their religious beliefs pertaining to certain school curriculum. It starts with fines. Even if the fines were paid they can still have the former occur to them.
I don't care if the believe in Care Bears flying in rainbow colored, cloud vessels created the world and blue smurfs were the bringers of the apocalypse. I would call them crazy but not begrudge them asylum for religious persecution. Persecution does not require death like situations. Under the eyes of the law.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Oh. What if you had to pay fines daily to practice your beliefs? Could you afford 9000 dollars a year on your fixed income to continue your faith? Would you feel persecuted and singled out?
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
After a little reading comprehension adjustment I see that they were already living here under asylum. To be honest I would not deport them under those circumstances. I would not have granted asylum in the first place but since that already happened the US really should stand up for the decision unless they actually do something really bad here and are first granted a trial.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
After a little reading comprehension adjustment I see that they were already living here under asylum.  To be honest I would not deport them under those circumstances.  I would not have granted asylum in the first place but since that already happened the US really should stand up for the decision unless they actually do something really bad here and are first granted a trial.
Lol. Now that we have you caught up to the class I will agree with you in this regards. My main issue of contention has been they were granted it already. It is akin to winning the powerball. Making a bunch of life changes and having the money for a few years then powerball changing their mind a few years later and taking the money away. Including any investment gains and such.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/40#post_3517275
Oh. What if you had to pay fines daily to practice your beliefs? Could you afford 9000 dollars a year on your fixed income to continue your faith? Would you feel persecuted and singled out?
If I was born and raised in a communist country, I would not feel persecuted or singled out...I would be used to the way of life everyone around me shares. I would also have enough sense to keep my unorthodox thinking to myself, and practice my faith privately within my own family. In their own country, they are the trouble makers.
You are looking at the situation from an American point of view, our RIGHTS are a blessing, no other government in the world wants. The people will have to stand up to oppose their own government if they are unhappy. It is not our place, I think we stick our noses in and get involved where it's none of our business.
In Germany the majority of the people are perfectly happy being drones. You never know...this one family could be the spark that ignites a movement to end the way they do things, and stop the drones forever.. However, no sparks will be ignited, the free thinkers left. That leaves everyone else to remain drones with no ideals that oppose the old ways. Where would America be today if Rosa Parks, who refused to give up her seat to a white boy...just left the country? That brave lady stood her ground, and started a movement that changed the way America thinks. She was under threat of jail, she could have been killed the same way Martin Luther King was...she died of old age at 92
LOL...maybe we have been going about things all wrong, we should remind Germany that they should be glad to send them packing to our country...they are a cancer of idealism they fear the most... free thinkers. Perhaps we should make it a fair trade..we give Germany the folks in America who want communism, for the ones in their country who want freedom of speech and religion.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Germany is a communist country? Geez, I guess they took that wall down for nothing then.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/40#post_3517294
Germany is a communist country? Geez, I guess they took that wall down for nothing then.
During the reign of the Soviet Union there were communist countries throughout Eastern Europe, Asia, and Africa. Communist countries in the twentieth century included Afghanistan, Albania, Angola, Benin, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Congo, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Ethiopia, Hungary, Mongolia, Mozambique, Poland, Romania, Somalia, South Yemen, Soviet Union, and Yugoslavia. Today, there are only five communist countries in the world.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
No, Germany is not communist. Its is a elected parliamentary republic. East Germany was communist until 1990.
If the USA grants someone asylum, then we should honor it. Especially, in this situation where persecution seems pretty obvious.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
The persecution of these people is far from obvious to me. I do agree though that if they were granted asylum, even under questionable circumstances, we should honor it.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
So they pulled their kids from school, racked up 9 grand in fines that they couldn't pay after trying to defend their actions so they fled in an effort to avoid prosecution and the possible break up of their family?
I'd grant them asylum, personally. That does seem like a violation of basic human rights to me. But then again, maybe I don't know the whole story. These people are christians, no?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
I googled what countries were still communist, and East Germany is listed. After 2Quills post, I googled "IS East Germany still a communist country?"...and now I see not since 1986. I know the wall came down, I thought that just meant the two sides were no longer fighting a kind of cold war standoff.
Well now that opens a whole new can of questions...if they are no longer under a dictatorship, why was it against the law for this family to home school? I was under the impression that the government wanted the children to be as Beth so nicely put it...drones where everyone thinks the same way. If it's a free country, then there shouldn't be any reason they can't freely travel to go where they want. I know America insists on people getting a green card, but that shouldn't bother the country they left. If Germany just wants their fines paid, why not let the family pay it a little over time while they live and work here...and not deport them.
Why go through all the trouble to get asylum if all they need to leave there and live here, is a job or go to school. Also why is it that if a Mexican family has a child here, then the whole family is granted to stay because of that one child. This family has a child born in America as well. Something is way off here, nothing is adding up.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/40#post_3517285
If I was born and raised in a communist country, I would not feel persecuted or singled out...I would be used to the way of life everyone around me shares. I would also have enough sense to keep my unorthodox thinking to myself, and practice my faith privately within my own family. In their own country, they are the trouble makers.
You are looking at the situation from an American point of view, our RIGHTS are a blessing, no other government in the world wants. The people will have to stand up to oppose their own government if they are unhappy. It is not our place, I think we stick our noses in and get involved where it's none of our business.
In Germany the majority of the people are perfectly happy being drones. You never know...this one family could be the spark that ignites a movement to end the way they do things, and stop the drones forever.. However, no sparks will be ignited, the free thinkers left. That leaves everyone else to remain drones with no ideals that oppose the old ways. Where would America be today if Rosa Parks, who refused to give up her seat to a white boy...just left the country? That brave lady stood her ground, and started a movement that changed the way America thinks. She was under threat of jail, she could have been killed the same way Martin Luther King was...she died of old age at 92
LOL...maybe we have been going about things all wrong, we should remind Germany that they should be glad to send them packing to our country...they are a cancer of idealism they fear the most... free thinkers. Perhaps we should make it a fair trade..we give Germany the folks in America who want communism, for the ones in their country who want freedom of speech and religion.
But we grant asylum based on that criteria every day. Why should these people be treated different? In the greater scheme of things what they are facing is mild but point here isn't "SHOULD THEY HAVE BEEN GRANTED ASYLUM", it's "SHOULD WE RESCIND THE ASYLUM WE ALREADY GRANTED THEM". Under current administration policy if they were illegal aliens they would be moved to the back of the line as far as any deportation action. They are also doing what they can to give illegals resident status through the DREAM scheme and immigration reform. So why single out what appears to be an honest family who came here the right way? Something just doesn't add up.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/40#post_3517322
I googled what countries were still communist, and East Germany is listed. After 2Quills post, I googled "IS East Germany still a communist country?"...and now I see not since 1986. I know the wall came down, I thought that just meant the two sides were no longer fighting a kind of cold war standoff.
Well now that opens a whole new can of questions...if they are no longer under a dictatorship, why was it against the law for this family to home school? I was under the impression that the government wanted the children to be as Beth so nicely put it...drones where everyone thinks the same way. If it's a free country, then there shouldn't be any reason they can't freely travel to go where they want. I know America insists on people getting a green card, but that shouldn't bother the country they left. If Germany just wants their fines paid, why not let the family pay it a little over time while they live and work here...and not deport them.
Why go through all the trouble to get asylum if all they need to leave there and live here, is a job or go to school. Also why is it that if a Mexican family has a child here, then the whole family is granted to stay because of that one child. This family has a child born in America as well. Something is way off here, nothing is adding up.
How about if they did something really sinister like say fine their people for not buying a private service they may or may not need, like say health insurance?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
After reading 2Quills post ... I googled the question "is East Germany a communist country?" the answer was not since 1986. When I asked the first time what countries are still communist, East Germany was on the list.
That opened a whole new bunch of questions for me. If Germany is no longer a dictatorship, why are they dictating every aspect of this families life?
Immigration is claiming they made a mistake....
All I can figure now as to why this all hit the fan, after reading the quote below....is that our government doesn't want to set a precedence where folks can come to our country based on how they want their kids educated.
QUOTE: But in its argument against the Romeikes' asylum, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement called home schoolers too 'amorphous' to qualify.
'United States law has recognized the broad power of the state to compel school attendance and regulate curriculum and teacher certification' along with the 'authority to prohibit or regulate homeschooling,' ICE wrote.
When the Board of Immigration Appeals overturned the judge's initial grant of asylum, it based its decision on a case where the European Court of Human Rights ruled that 'the public education laws of Germany do not violate basic human rights.'
At any rate, if a Mexican comes across our boarder, and gives birth, the family can stay because they have an American child. Well so does this family.......I signed the petition to let them stay, and I hope everyone on the site who has been following this thread does the same.
 
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