This is interesting.
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reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/40#post_3517330
After reading 2Quills post ... I googled the question "is East Germany a communist country?" the answer was not since 1986. When I asked the first time what countries are still communist, East Germany was on the list.
That opened a whole new bunch of questions for me. If Germany is no longer a dictatorship, why are they dictating every aspect of this families life?
Immigration is claiming they made a mistake....
All I can figure now as to why this all hit the fan, after reading the quote below....is that our government doesn't want to set a precedence where folks can come to our country based on how they want their kids educated.
QUOTE: But in its argument against the Romeikes' asylum, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement called home schoolers too 'amorphous' to qualify.
'United States law has recognized the broad power of the state to compel school attendance and regulate curriculum and teacher certification' along with the 'authority to prohibit or regulate homeschooling,' ICE wrote.
When the Board of Immigration Appeals overturned the judge's initial grant of asylum, it based its decision on a case where the European Court of Human Rights ruled that 'the public education laws of Germany do not violate basic human rights.'
At any rate, if a Mexican comes across our boarder, and gives birth, the family can stay because they have an American child. Well so does this family.......I signed the petition to let them stay, and I hope everyone on the site who has been following this thread does the same.
The fact we have judges in this country making rulings based on foreign government opinions is far more troubling than this case. We going to see those same rulings based on Iranian laws?
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/40#post_3517330
After reading 2Quills post ... I googled the question "is East Germany a communist country?" the answer was not since 1986. When I asked the first time what countries are still communist, East Germany was on the list.
That opened a whole new bunch of questions for me. If Germany is no longer a dictatorship, why are they dictating every aspect of this families life?
Immigration is claiming they made a mistake....
All I can figure now as to why this all hit the fan, after reading the quote below....is that our government doesn't want to set a precedence where folks can come to our country based on how they want their kids educated.
QUOTE: But in its argument against the Romeikes' asylum, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement called home schoolers too 'amorphous' to qualify.
'United States law has recognized the broad power of the state to compel school attendance and regulate curriculum and teacher certification' along with the 'authority to prohibit or regulate homeschooling,' ICE wrote.
When the Board of Immigration Appeals overturned the judge's initial grant of asylum, it based its decision on a case where the European Court of Human Rights ruled that 'the public education laws of Germany do not violate basic human rights.'
At any rate, if a Mexican comes across our boarder, and gives birth, the family can stay because they have an American child. Well so does this family.......I signed the petition to let them stay, and I hope everyone on the site who has been following this thread does the same.
The fact we have judges in this country making rulings based on foreign government opinions is far more troubling than this case. We going to see those same rulings based on Iranian laws?
The Supreme Court of Germany declared that the purpose of the German ban on homeschooling was to “counteract the development of religious and philosophically motivated parallel societies.”
To me, this statement identifies Germany's goal that everyone in Germany should be basically cut from the same cloth (that is acceptable to the German government). This is why Germany vigorously suppresses attempts by families to home school their kids. Its not just fines. Its jail time. Its having your kids removed from you. To me, it doesn't get any more totalitarian than this.
Also, you know what group is allowed to get home-schooled in Germany? Gypsies! Any reason why gypsies get a pass?
To me, this statement identifies Germany's goal that everyone in Germany should be basically cut from the same cloth (that is acceptable to the German government). This is why Germany vigorously suppresses attempts by families to home school their kids. Its not just fines. Its jail time. Its having your kids removed from you. To me, it doesn't get any more totalitarian than this.
Also, you know what group is allowed to get home-schooled in Germany? Gypsies! Any reason why gypsies get a pass?
bang guy
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517348
The Supreme Court of Germany declared that the purpose of the German ban on homeschooling was to “counteract the development of religious and philosophically motivated parallel societies.”
To me, this statement identifies Germany's goal that everyone in Germany should be basically cut from the same cloth (that is acceptable to the German government). This is why Germany vigorously suppresses attempts by families to home school their kids. Its not just fines. Its jail time. Its having your kids removed from you. To me, it doesn't get any more totalitarian than this.
Also, you know what group is allowed to get home-schooled in Germany? Gypsies! Any reason why gypsies get a pass?
IIRC there is no law against teaching your kids at home.
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517348
The Supreme Court of Germany declared that the purpose of the German ban on homeschooling was to “counteract the development of religious and philosophically motivated parallel societies.”
To me, this statement identifies Germany's goal that everyone in Germany should be basically cut from the same cloth (that is acceptable to the German government). This is why Germany vigorously suppresses attempts by families to home school their kids. Its not just fines. Its jail time. Its having your kids removed from you. To me, it doesn't get any more totalitarian than this.
Also, you know what group is allowed to get home-schooled in Germany? Gypsies! Any reason why gypsies get a pass?
IIRC there is no law against teaching your kids at home.
2quills
Well-Known Member
I belive there are still regulations that need to be followed to do it here in the states. My wifes sister just started doing this with her teenage daughter. But it varies from state to state.
You cant just not send your kid to school and simply say you're teaching at home.
You cant just not send your kid to school and simply say you're teaching at home.
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517348
Also, you know what group is allowed to get home-schooled in Germany? Gypsies! Any reason why gypsies get a pass?
LOL...Gypsies don't exist on paper. They have no birth certificates, no licenses ...no numbers...nothing to tell the powers that be if they 1 kid or 20, nothing to alert the authorities on anything they do. They have no permanent address, no ties....if things get rough they move. Their entire existence is under the radar.
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517348
Also, you know what group is allowed to get home-schooled in Germany? Gypsies! Any reason why gypsies get a pass?
LOL...Gypsies don't exist on paper. They have no birth certificates, no licenses ...no numbers...nothing to tell the powers that be if they 1 kid or 20, nothing to alert the authorities on anything they do. They have no permanent address, no ties....if things get rough they move. Their entire existence is under the radar.
bang guy
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517368
I belive there are still regulations that need to be followed to do it here in the states. My wifes sister just started doing this with her teenage daughter. But it varies from state to state.
You cant just not send your kid to school and simply say you're teaching at home.
Sorry, my point was only that before or after the kids get home from public school parents are allowed to spend additional time teaching them. It's not one or the other it can, and should, be both.
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517368
I belive there are still regulations that need to be followed to do it here in the states. My wifes sister just started doing this with her teenage daughter. But it varies from state to state.
You cant just not send your kid to school and simply say you're teaching at home.
Sorry, my point was only that before or after the kids get home from public school parents are allowed to spend additional time teaching them. It's not one or the other it can, and should, be both.
reefraff
Active Member
Honestly if I had school age kids now I'd put them in public school just to mess with any teachers who did try to indoctrinate them. I was lucky, very little of that nonsense occurred in the district my son graduated from. I taught my kid to think for himself. Back around the time of the Clinton impeachment one of his teachers was telling them how unfair it was that he was impeached for an affair. My son said he asked the teacher if it wasn't about lying in court (he was really close) and she said they really shouldn't discuss it in class and changed the subject. Sometimes our kids do listen LOL!
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517382
Honestly if I had school age kids now I'd put them in public school just to mess with any teachers who did try to indoctrinate them. I was lucky, very little of that nonsense occurred in the district my son graduated from. I taught my kid to think for himself. Back around the time of the Clinton impeachment one of his teachers was telling them how unfair it was that he was impeached for an affair. My son said he asked the teacher if it wasn't about lying in court (he was really close) and she said they really shouldn't discuss it in class and changed the subject. Sometimes our kids do listen LOL!
EXACTLY what any good parent should do.
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517382
Honestly if I had school age kids now I'd put them in public school just to mess with any teachers who did try to indoctrinate them. I was lucky, very little of that nonsense occurred in the district my son graduated from. I taught my kid to think for himself. Back around the time of the Clinton impeachment one of his teachers was telling them how unfair it was that he was impeached for an affair. My son said he asked the teacher if it wasn't about lying in court (he was really close) and she said they really shouldn't discuss it in class and changed the subject. Sometimes our kids do listen LOL!
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517379
Supposedly, gypsies get a pass in Germany because of their transient lifestyle. But why should this matter?? Its questionable to me. Could it be that the Germans don't mind gypsies not attending school?
It seems like they pretty much get a pass just about everywhere. As, Flower mentioned they don't ever write anything down. So their heritage and teachings are handing down orally through generations.
So many feel that the best way for them to educated their kids is for the kid to spend the majority of it's time at the mothers side as youngsters and then gradually towards elders as they grow. Some do go to school for a while but it sounds like most do not do well in school because they can't read or write. Couple that with the fact that they are very secretive of their culture you can see how it might be hard for teachers and other students to understand them and therefore can turn into a negative experience for the child. So most modern Roma (gypsies) only go to school for a short time while they're very young.
Too much time away from home can lead to fears of them losing their heritage over time the more and more they are away since they don't write anything down. They don't write anything down because they don't go to school. It's a vicious circle out there for the gypsies and apparently even the Germans understand this. So, you should too. We don't want to violate their basic human rights now do we?
On the other hand we can't very well have christian families running off thinking it's ok to start up sub cultures and all together quite supporting the system. They are too close to the majority.
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517379
Supposedly, gypsies get a pass in Germany because of their transient lifestyle. But why should this matter?? Its questionable to me. Could it be that the Germans don't mind gypsies not attending school?
It seems like they pretty much get a pass just about everywhere. As, Flower mentioned they don't ever write anything down. So their heritage and teachings are handing down orally through generations.
So many feel that the best way for them to educated their kids is for the kid to spend the majority of it's time at the mothers side as youngsters and then gradually towards elders as they grow. Some do go to school for a while but it sounds like most do not do well in school because they can't read or write. Couple that with the fact that they are very secretive of their culture you can see how it might be hard for teachers and other students to understand them and therefore can turn into a negative experience for the child. So most modern Roma (gypsies) only go to school for a short time while they're very young.
Too much time away from home can lead to fears of them losing their heritage over time the more and more they are away since they don't write anything down. They don't write anything down because they don't go to school. It's a vicious circle out there for the gypsies and apparently even the Germans understand this. So, you should too. We don't want to violate their basic human rights now do we?
On the other hand we can't very well have christian families running off thinking it's ok to start up sub cultures and all together quite supporting the system. They are too close to the majority.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517382
Honestly if I had school age kids now I'd put them in public school just to mess with any teachers who did try to indoctrinate them.
You would, wouldn't you?
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517382
Honestly if I had school age kids now I'd put them in public school just to mess with any teachers who did try to indoctrinate them.
You would, wouldn't you?
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517379
Supposedly, gypsies get a pass in Germany because of their transient lifestyle. But why should this matter?? Its questionable to me. Could it be that the Germans don't mind gypsies not attending school?
Transient lifestyle says a great deal of why...
How in the world can the government regulate people when they don't know where they live, or who their parents are, or how many, if any, kids they have?...LOL...who do they assign the fine to, and where do they send the bill? I'm pretty sure if they could, they would.
They can't just see a Gypsy and cart them off to jail, they would have to issue a warning first, what if they say the kid isn't theirs they are just babysitting, or the kid is sick and out of school for that day? ...I'm sure by the very next day...they are gone. How are they going to trace them? They don't use credit cards, they don't register any cars, they don't exist on paper. If a person was really determined to follow them to keep track...well they may turn up missing themselves. Gypsy's are not nice people, stuff happens to those whom they consider threats. They work with each other, and have a network of people to help them disappear.
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517379
Supposedly, gypsies get a pass in Germany because of their transient lifestyle. But why should this matter?? Its questionable to me. Could it be that the Germans don't mind gypsies not attending school?
Transient lifestyle says a great deal of why...
How in the world can the government regulate people when they don't know where they live, or who their parents are, or how many, if any, kids they have?...LOL...who do they assign the fine to, and where do they send the bill? I'm pretty sure if they could, they would.
They can't just see a Gypsy and cart them off to jail, they would have to issue a warning first, what if they say the kid isn't theirs they are just babysitting, or the kid is sick and out of school for that day? ...I'm sure by the very next day...they are gone. How are they going to trace them? They don't use credit cards, they don't register any cars, they don't exist on paper. If a person was really determined to follow them to keep track...well they may turn up missing themselves. Gypsy's are not nice people, stuff happens to those whom they consider threats. They work with each other, and have a network of people to help them disappear.
reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517414
You would, wouldn't you?
Rockin the boat is what I do best. Just ask the establishment butt kissers in the MT Republican party. People up to the former governor know who I am and they don't all get a warm fuzzy feeling at the mention of my name Activist school teachers would be like wading in the kiddy pool.
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517414
You would, wouldn't you?
Rockin the boat is what I do best. Just ask the establishment butt kissers in the MT Republican party. People up to the former governor know who I am and they don't all get a warm fuzzy feeling at the mention of my name
Activist school teachers would be like wading in the kiddy pool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517413
So, you should too. We don't want to violate their basic human rights now do we?
No sure what you mean by we don't want to violate their rights? I brought up the fact that gypsies are being allowed to home school in Germany while other German citizens are not allowed. Most would consider that discrimination against the groups that are not allowed; in fact, that is likely to be the legal basis for the Romeike family's asylum case.
Under the law, it should not matter if you are migratory, transient, gypsies, or Houdini. The law should apply to all. If it doesn't, then that is discriminatory and a good defense for persecution and for a family seeking asylum.
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517413
So, you should too. We don't want to violate their basic human rights now do we?
No sure what you mean by we don't want to violate their rights? I brought up the fact that gypsies are being allowed to home school in Germany while other German citizens are not allowed. Most would consider that discrimination against the groups that are not allowed; in fact, that is likely to be the legal basis for the Romeike family's asylum case.
Under the law, it should not matter if you are migratory, transient, gypsies, or Houdini. The law should apply to all. If it doesn't, then that is discriminatory and a good defense for persecution and for a family seeking asylum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517472
Yeah bad joke, Beth. Sorry, thought you would have caught that. Clearly there is discrimination going on all over the planet. Even here. Life isn't fair no matter how pretty they make it sound in the decleration.
yeah, I thought you may be trying to be jokingly sarcastic, but wasn't quite sure. Glad I asked!
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/395126/this-is-interesting/60#post_3517472
Yeah bad joke, Beth. Sorry, thought you would have caught that. Clearly there is discrimination going on all over the planet. Even here. Life isn't fair no matter how pretty they make it sound in the decleration.
yeah, I thought you may be trying to be jokingly sarcastic, but wasn't quite sure. Glad I asked!