This Will Guarantee A Republican Victory In 2012

[darthtang aw]

Ah, so if you can afford to pay your own way for healthcare, you're suppose "To take a bullet"  for the Good Ole USA, so those less fortunate can have their medical benefits.  Doesn't that fall in line with your dismay about Obama wanting to get rid of the Bush Taxes for those who make over $250K?  You didn't answer the question.  Will the supposed 54 year old limit affect you?
 
So I can afford a $300,000 home, but I'm not supposed to buy that much home because I'm not "using my money wisely"?  Used to be property WAS the wise investment.  I haven't lost much in my property value, simply because San Antonio's real estate market hasn't been hit that hard. But hey, I'll sell tomorrow and go live in a two bedroom shack just so I can tell you I'm being frugal with my money and investments.

 
You sound more Liberal than I do....
 
 
Once again you completely missed my point.
Darth (no longer worth it) Tang

 

[darthtang aw]

SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE... There is the answer. It would bring down the cost of health care. It would bring down the percent of gdp that health care cost us. The way it is now it cost us more for health care than any other nation. We are the only country in the free world where anybody has ever and I mean ever had to file for bankruptcy because of medical bills. That is how you fix Medicare. SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE. It will force medical companies to bring down inflated prices or the government won't do business with them it will bring it all under control.
It costs us more because we are 4 to 7 times larger in population than other countries of the free world.
You bring up bankruptcy...how interesting. I remember the left saying that medical bills accounted for 80% of all bankruptcies in the u.s.. so if this were true, canada who has single payer would have a lower percentage of bankruptcies than us. Yet they are higher. So I call bulls**t on the bankruptcy causing healt bills. They are not nearly as prevalent as you would like us think.
As a matter of fact, most free world countries have a higher bankruptcy rate than the u.s.....so apparently single payer actually makes you worse off financially.
I already told you your solution....move to canada.
It wont bring the cost down, if it did single payer wouldn't account for most of the free world countries budgets that have it. If it was so great an idea those same coun tries wouldn't be cutting those programs because they are no longer affordable.....
Darth (immune to the moore brainwash) Tang

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/385919/this-will-guarantee-a-republican-victory-in-2012/80#post_3387353
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385919/this-will-guarantee-a-republican-victory-in-2012/60#post_3387335
Ah, so if you can afford to pay your own way for healthcare, you're suppose "To take a bullet" for the Good Ole USA, so those less fortunate can have their medical benefits. Doesn't that fall in line with your dismay about Obama wanting to get rid of the Bush Taxes for those who make over $250K? You didn't answer the question. Will the supposed 54 year old limit affect you?
So I can afford a $300,000 home, but I'm not supposed to buy that much home because I'm not "using my money wisely"? Used to be property WAS the wise investment. I haven't lost much in my property value, simply because San Antonio's real estate market hasn't been hit that hard. But hey, I'll sell tomorrow and go live in a two bedroom shack just so I can tell you I'm being frugal with my money and investments.

You sound more Liberal than I do....
Once again you completely missed my point.
Darth (no longer worth it) Tang
Guess I did.
Bionic (Darth's points make no sense) Arm

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385919/this-will-guarantee-a-republican-victory-in-2012/60#post_3387345
But you expect those individuals who paid into the system for decades, should now accept some other program that will more than likely cost even more money in premiums and costs. All for "The Good Of The Country". This "voucher" system sounds like an evil stepchild to Obamacare.
Yes. The voucher program is one way to save medicare. Maybe there is a better way but the current system doesn't work. Getting a voucher is a whole lot better than being told "sorry, the system is broke". The retirement agae should have been moved up long before now. They also need to do that evil means testing the Republicans were demonized for suggesting back in the 90's. I am hardly rich but we are debt free with a yearly income over 50 grand without considering my disability payment from SS. I ain't gonna whine if they knock a little off what I get because of my outside income, AS LONG AS THEY ALSO CUT WELFARE AND OTHER GIVEAWAYS BY THE SAME AMOUNT. I am in the position of moving off Medicare and probably well at the end of the year because 0bama care is going to kill medicare advantage. Oh well, I can afford it and in fact will save a little being on my wife's insurance. Feel sorry for those folks who aren't in my position and are having the rug pulled out from under them by OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS!

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/385919/this-will-guarantee-a-republican-victory-in-2012/80#post_3387368
Yes. The voucher program is one way to save medicare. Maybe there is a better way but the current system doesn't work. Getting a voucher is a whole lot better than being told "sorry, the system is broke". The retirement agae should have been moved up long before now. They also need to do that evil means testing the Republicans were demonized for suggesting back in the 90's. I am hardly rich but we are debt free with a yearly income over 50 grand without considering my disability payment from SS. I ain't gonna whine if they knock a little off what I get because of my outside income, AS LONG AS THEY ALSO CUT WELFARE AND OTHER GIVEAWAYS BY THE SAME AMOUNT. I am in the position of moving off Medicare and probably well at the end of the year because 0bama care is going to kill medicare advantage. Oh well, I can afford it and in fact will save a little being on my wife's insurance. Feel sorry for those folks who aren't in my position and are having the rug pulled out from under them by OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS!
Again, what guarantees will you get regarding coverage with these vouchers? Is there a guarantee you can't be denied for coverage, regardless of pre-existing conditions? Can you guarantee that they won't raise premiums, up the deductions and OOP expenses? Can they cap the maximum amount you are covered for? You pride yourself in being able to afford external healthcare. Good for you. What do these lower income families that hardly have enough money to pay existing bills and expenses supposed to do when they hit their 70's and the voucher doesn't cover all expenses? Soylent Green comes to mind....

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385919/this-will-guarantee-a-republican-victory-in-2012/80#post_3387400
Again, what guarantees will you get regarding coverage with these vouchers? Is there a guarantee you can't be denied for coverage, regardless of pre-existing conditions? Can you guarantee that they won't raise premiums, up the deductions and OOP expenses? Can they cap the maximum amount you are covered for? You pride yourself in being able to afford external healthcare. Good for you. What do these lower income families that hardly have enough money to pay existing bills and expenses supposed to do when they hit their 70's and the voucher doesn't cover all expenses? Soylent Green comes to mind....
Like I said I feel for those with no outside income.
A voucher is a good alternative to "sorry it's gone". Perhaps instead of just slamming the door on the Ryan plan they should look at addressing the concerns you listed. Point is do something other than celebrate killing the plan. So far GW Bush and Ryan are the only one's who have had guts enough to try to address the issue. Taxes have to go up and benefits have to go down. Sucks. But then again people in the generation ahead of us (I assume me and you are withing 10 years of each other) didn't pay in nearly as much as we (well you) will for better benefits.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385919/this-will-guarantee-a-republican-victory-in-2012/80#post_3387400
Again, what guarantees will you get regarding coverage with these vouchers? Is there a guarantee you can't be denied for coverage, regardless of pre-existing conditions? Can you guarantee that they won't raise premiums, up the deductions and OOP expenses? Can they cap the maximum amount you are covered for? You pride yourself in being able to afford external healthcare. Good for you. What do these lower income families that hardly have enough money to pay existing bills and expenses supposed to do when they hit their 70's and the voucher doesn't cover all expenses? Soylent Green comes to mind....
In what alternate reality does government even today cover all medical expenses? The reality is in the next 10-20 years, there won't be anything, because medicare/medicaid will have been crushed under it's own weight, either that or I'll be paying 60% of my wages in taxes (well I won't because I'll be long gone by then). This theme, that the status quo will somehow result in healthcare coverage or for that matter social security, is well more looney, than the guy who predicted the rapture...

 

[bionicarm]

There's one government-assisted healthcare plan that costs almost as much as Medicare, but no one dare touches it due to the apparent sensitive nature of messing with that program. It's called TRICARE, the health insurance plan afforded to all retired and active duty military. You have these retirees that pay a whopping $450/Year for their entire familiy, and get some of the best coverages and benefits than any public sector health plan. They have their own medical facilities, with their own doctors, all available at a low cost/no cost price. Granted, there are a multitude of these individuals that deserve every right to be taken care of - those who've fought in volatile and dangerous conditions. But you also have a huge retired sector that never saw one day of action, or enlisted for the minimum time alloted to attain these benefits when they were discharged. You want to get rid of Medicare? Then just roll all retirees into TRICARE, and call it even.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385919/this-will-guarantee-a-republican-victory-in-2012/80#post_3387487
There's one government-assisted healthcare plan that costs almost as much as Medicare, but no one dare touches it due to the apparent sensitive nature of messing with that program. It's called TRICARE, the health insurance plan afforded to all retired and active duty military. You have these retirees that pay a whopping $450/Year for their entire familiy, and get some of the best coverages and benefits than any public sector health plan. They have their own medical facilities, with their own doctors, all available at a low cost/no cost price. Granted, there are a multitude of these individuals that deserve every right to be taken care of - those who've fought in volatile and dangerous conditions. But you also have a huge retired sector that never saw one day of action, or enlisted for the minimum time alloted to attain these benefits when they were discharged. You want to get rid of Medicare? Then just roll all retirees into TRICARE, and call it even.
Back when my Dad was in the Vets system it was a joke. The Long Beach hospital was an embarrasment. There is a need to active duty folks to have a seperate system but they should look at shrinking the system and comming up with a different plan for retirees. I don't know about their families but anyone who has ever served in a war zone should get life time benefits.

 

[darthtang aw]

There's one government-assisted healthcare plan that costs almost as much as Medicare, but no one dare touches it due to the apparent sensitive nature of messing with that program. It's called TRICARE, the health insurance plan afforded to all retired and active duty military. You have these retirees that pay a whopping $450/Year for their entire familiy, and get some of the best coverages and benefits than any public sector health plan. They have their own medical facilities, with their own doctors, all available at a low cost/no cost price. Granted, there are a multitude of these individuals that deserve every right to be taken care of - those who've fought in volatile and dangerous conditions. But you also have a huge retired sector that never saw one day of action, or enlisted for the minimum time alloted to attain these benefits when they were discharged. You want to get rid of Medicare? Then just roll all retirees into TRICARE, and call it even.
Way to mislead.....retired and enlisted cost is different as is reserve cost....wont bother going into it since you will argue with me anyway. Not all tricare is that low. There is also a reason my father (20 years army) and my father in law (eight years air force) have health insurance other than tricare, formerly known as champass. Both served in vietnam, one of them did 2 tours.
But it is an interesting alternative.....just no different than a voucher.

 

[darthtang aw]

While we are at it...anyone that wants to never worry about having a job, free health insurance for life, housing provided, join the military for twenty years...you will get all that....military deserve all that...anyone else...doesn't.......as your job at mcdonalds isn't protecting my freedom or this country.
You get a pension/retirement as well.......all without a union.....wow.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/385919/this-will-guarantee-a-republican-victory-in-2012/80#post_3387544
Back when my Dad was in the Vets system it was a joke. The Long Beach hospital was an embarrasment. There is a need to active duty folks to have a seperate system but they should look at shrinking the system and comming up with a different plan for retirees. I don't know about their families but anyone who has ever served in a war zone should get life time benefits.
I completely agree. Any active duty or retired serviceman that did just one day of combat duty during his time of service deserves lifetime benefits.
As far as TRICARE costs? Here's a nice link to all the various programs. Retired and under 65? Tricare Prime cost $460/YEAR for family. The coverage is just as good as what I get. For retirees over the age of 65, they now have Tricare For Life --
Prior to 2001, TRICARE coverage expired at age 65 forcing military retirees, their families, and survivors to rely solely on Medicare. TFL provides military health care coverage to TRICARE beneficiaries 65 years of age or older.
When TRICARE beneficiaries (other than eligible active duty family members) become entitled to Medicare Part A, on the basis of age or disability/end-stage renal disease and purchase Medicare Part B, they do not experience a break in TRICARE coverage. TRICARE For Life (TFL) pays secondary to Medicare
http://www.military.com/benefits/tricare/understanding-your-tricare-benefits

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/385919/this-will-guarantee-a-republican-victory-in-2012/80#post_3387592
While we are at it...anyone that wants to never worry about having a job, free health insurance for life, housing provided, join the military for twenty years...you will get all that....military deserve all that...anyone else...doesn't.......as your job at mcdonalds isn't protecting my freedom or this country.
You get a pension/retirement as well.......all without a union.....wow.
Depends on the job in the military. I have a Major in the unit where I'm at that's been at the same job, at the same desk, for the last 10 years. He's been in 16, and the only time he was stationed outside of the 48-states was his "overseas" tour in HAWAII. He'll put in his other 4, retire, then come back to the exact same job he left as a contractor. Gets the same salary (if not more) than his Major's pay, then get's his 50% retirement for life with automatic 2.5% COLA increase (which comes to around $50K/year after taxes). His hardest job so far was obtaining his Master's Degree on the taxpayer's nickel. I'd be afraid to be around the guy if you put a gun in his hand. He'd probably shoot his foot off before he hit the enemy.

 

[darthtang aw]

I completely agree.  Any active duty or retired serviceman that did just one day of combat duty during his time of service deserves lifetime benefits.
 
As far as TRICARE costs?  Here's a nice link to all the various programs.  Retired and under 65?  Tricare Prime cost $460/YEAR for family.  The coverage is just as good as what I get.  For retirees over the age of 65, they now have Tricare For Life --
 
 
Prior to 2001, TRICARE coverage expired at age 65 forcing military retirees, their families, and survivors to rely solely on Medicare. TFL provides military health care coverage to TRICARE beneficiaries 65 years of age or older.
 
When TRICARE beneficiaries (other than eligible active duty family members) become entitled to Medicare Part A, on the basis of age or disability/end-stage renal disease and purchase Medicare Part B, they do not experience a break in TRICARE coverage. TRICARE For Life (TFL) pays secondary to Medicare
 
http://www.military.com/benefits/tricare/understanding-your-tricare-benefits
 
 
 
Military benefits don't cover a lot of services that other insurance has to now...one example...abortion.

 

[darthtang aw]

 
Depends on the job in the military.  I have a Major in the unit where I'm at that's been at the same job, at the same desk, for the last 10 years.  He's been in 16, and the only time he was stationed outside of the 48-states was his "overseas" tour in HAWAII.  He'll put in his other 4, retire, then come back to the exact same job he left as a contractor.  Gets the same salary (if not more) than his Major's pay, then get's his 50% retirement for life with automatic 2.5% COLA increase (which comes to around $50K/year after taxes).  His hardest job so far was obtaining his Master's Degree on the taxpayer's nickel.  I'd be afraid to be around the guy if you put a gun in his hand.  He'd probably shoot his foot off before he hit the enemy.
 
Sometimes this is the case...but regardless he was willing to sign the dotted line...he is the exception...not the norm.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/385919/this-will-guarantee-a-republican-victory-in-2012/80#post_3387607
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/385919/this-will-guarantee-a-republican-victory-in-2012/80#post_3387598
Depends on the job in the military. I have a Major in the unit where I'm at that's been at the same job, at the same desk, for the last 10 years. He's been in 16, and the only time he was stationed outside of the 48-states was his "overseas" tour in HAWAII. He'll put in his other 4, retire, then come back to the exact same job he left as a contractor. Gets the same salary (if not more) than his Major's pay, then get's his 50% retirement for life with automatic 2.5% COLA increase (which comes to around $50K/year after taxes). His hardest job so far was obtaining his Master's Degree on the taxpayer's nickel. I'd be afraid to be around the guy if you put a gun in his hand. He'd probably shoot his foot off before he hit the enemy.
Sometimes this is the case...but regardless he was willing to sign the dotted line...he is the exception...not the norm.
You haven't worked with the military personnel I've worked with for the last 28 years. This guy is one of the brighter ones. We've had four Air Force bases here in San Antonio at one time, and I worked at every one of them as a contractor at one point in time. I've worked with some very dedicated and proud servicemen, and I've worked with total idiots. Unfortunately, it's the idiots that move up the fastest to avoid the "dirty jobs" or the deployments.

 

[darthtang aw]

You haven't worked with the military personnel I've worked with for the last 28 years.  This guy is one of the brighter ones.  We've had four Air Force bases here in San Antonio at one time, and I worked at every one of them as a contractor at one point in time.  I've worked with some very dedicated and proud servicemen, and I've worked with total idiots.  Unfortunately, it's the idiots that move up the fastest to avoid the "dirty jobs" or the deployments. 
 
 
I wont call anyone serving our country an idiot. Maybe I am more respectful...even cars with vet license plates get a pass when they cut me off or drive slow...my point is the greater majority serve time overseas or in battle...either way...they signed on and gave over control of their life in defense of our nation....which is far more than most have or will do...so no matter what...they earn those benefits...some more than others..butthey earn them.....I have lived at on base housing...I have moved every three years....I have been forced to learn other languages to a degree....I hav e had normal suddennly not be anymore.........this is what most experience.

 

[darthtang aw]

Out of curiosty...who do you have respect for? It seems like no matter the demography you can point out the bad or idiots....is it because you place yourself above them or you just see the bad in everyone.
By the way texas legislature and go ernor perry have to be doing something right...you guys have the highest job growth rate in the country for a while now.

 

[reefraff]

MMmmm. I've know some idiots in many different uniforms in my life, including military. It happens. How about the doctor that used the military to get educated then when faced with active duty became a conscientious objector? Idiot doesn't begin to define that clown.

 

[darthtang aw]

MMmmm. I've know some idiots in many different uniforms in my life, including military. It happens. How about the doctor that used the military to get educated then when faced with active duty became a conscientious objector? Idiot doesn't begin to define that clown.
But that is the greater minority is it not?