To the people who bash Bush here's what we had

jmick

Active Member
4) the problem is that the jobs going overseas are quality jobs, jobs you need a college education for or training. The number here don't lie and I find them to be very concerning...
February 11/12, 2006
Forget Iran, Americans Should be Hysterical About This
Nuking the Economy
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
Last week the Bureau of Labor Statistics re-benchmarked the payroll jobs data back to 2000. Thanks to Charles McMillion of MBG Information Services, I have the adjusted data from January 2001 through January 2006. If you are worried about terrorists, you don’t know what worry is.
Job growth over the last five years is the weakest on record. The US economy came up more than 7 million jobs short of keeping up with population growth. That’s one good reason for controlling immigration. An economy that cannot keep up with population growth should not be boosting population with heavy rates of legal and illegal immigration.
Over the past five years the US economy experienced a net job loss in goods producing activities. The entire job growth was in service-providing activities--primarily credit intermediation, health care and social assistance, waiters, waitresses and bartenders, and state and local government.
US manufacturing lost 2.9 million jobs, almost 17% of the manufacturing work force. The wipeout is across the board. Not a single manufacturing payroll classification created a single new job.
The declines in some manufacturing sectors have more in common with a country undergoing saturation bombing during war than with a super-economy that is “the envy of the world.” Communications equipment lost 43% of its workforce. Semiconductors and electronic components lost 37% of its workforce. The workforce in computers and electronic products declined 30%. Electrical equipment and appliances lost 25% of its employees. The workforce in motor vehicles and parts declined 12%. Furniture and related products lost 17% of its jobs. Apparel manufacturers lost almost half of the work force. Employment in textile mills declined 43%. Paper and paper products lost one-fifth of its jobs. The work force in plastics and rubber products declined by 15%. Even manufacturers of beverages and tobacco products experienced a 7% shrinkage in jobs.
The knowledge jobs that were supposed to take the place of lost manufacturing jobs in the globalized “new economy” never appeared. The information sector lost 17% of its jobs, with the telecommunications work force declining by 25%. Even wholesale and retail trade lost jobs. Despite massive new accounting burdens imposed by Sarbanes-Oxley, accounting and bookkeeping employment shrank by 4%. Computer systems design and related lost 9% of its jobs. Today there are 209,000 fewer managerial and supervisory jobs than 5 years ago.
In five years the US economy only created 70,000 jobs in architecture and engineering, many of which are clerical. Little wonder engineering enrollments are shrinking. There are no jobs for graduates. The talk about engineering shortages is absolute ignorance. There are several hundred thousand American engineers who are unemployed and have been for years. No student wants a degree that is nothing but a ticket to a soup line. Many engineers have written to me that they cannot even get Wal-Mart jobs because their education makes them over-qualified.
Offshore outsourcing and offshore production have left the US awash with unemployment among the highly educated. The low measured rate of unemployment does not include discouraged workers. Labor arbitrage has made the unemployment rate less and less a meaningful indicator. In the past unemployment resulted mainly from turnover in the labor force and recession. Recoveries pulled people back into jobs.
Unemployment benefits were intended to help people over the down time in the cycle when workers were laid off. Today the unemployment is permanent as entire occupations and industries are wiped out by labor arbitrage as corporations replace their American employees with foreign ones.
On February 10 the Commerce Department released a record US trade deficit in goods and services for 2005--$726 billion. The US deficit in Advanced Technology Products reached a new high. Offshore production for home markets and jobs outsourcing has made the US highly dependent on foreign provided goods and services, while simultaneously reducing the export capability of the US economy. It is possible that there might be no exchange rate at which the US can balance its trade.
Polls indicate that the Bush administration is succeeding in whipping up fear and hysteria about Iran. The secretary of defense is promising Americans decades-long war. Is death in battle Bush’s solution to the job depression? Will Asians finance a decades-long war for a bankrupt country
 

pontius

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Let's play a game...
Tobin, one or more of the "facts" you posted in the original post is untrue. Let's see who can find the error or errors first...
well, there are only 2 or 3 things in the original post that are even relevant. I'm no Clinton fan, but vandalizing the white house and stealing silverware, in my book, doesn't come close to sending 3500 troops to their deaths for a deadend war to make his buddies more money.
here is one of the "facts" that is definitely not true:
5. Thanks for making Jimmy Carter look competent, Gerald Ford look graceful, Richard Nixon look honest, Lyndon Johnson look truthful, and John Kennedy look moral.
there is no one, and I mean NO ONE, that makes Jimmy Carter look competent. Jimmy Carter is without a doubt, the worst president this country has ever seen (though Bush is working hard to try to give him a run for his money).
 

seasalt101

Active Member
Originally Posted by Pontius
well, there are only 2 or 3 things in the original post that are even relevant. I'm no Clinton fan, but vandalizing the white house and stealing silverware, in my book, doesn't come close to sending 3500 troops to their deaths for a deadend war to make his buddies more money.
here is one of the "facts" that is definitely not true:
5. Thanks for making Jimmy Carter look competent, Gerald Ford look graceful, Richard Nixon look honest, Lyndon Johnson look truthful, and John Kennedy look moral.
there is no one, and I mean NO ONE, that makes Jimmy Carter look competent. Jimmy Carter is without a doubt, the worst president this country has ever seen (though Bush is working hard to try to give him a run for his money).
or make ford look graceful, i will agree with you on carter too, how did you feel about reagan?
 

rylan1

Active Member
I forgot about the deficit... another strike against the Bush Admin.
Oil is $3 a gallon, but we continue to export our own, and buy from others??? How does this make sense?
 

seasalt101

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
I forgot about the deficit... another strike against the Bush Admin.
Oil is $3 a gallon, but we continue to export our own, and buy from others??? How does this make sense?
we buy cheaper and sell top dollar...tobin
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Iraq
Invading Iraq without any threat to the U.S.---Subject to determination of threat. Shooting at our pilots while flying seems pretty threatening to me. They could after all die.
Lying about Iraqi WMD's to Congress and the American people---Tired of this statement, If Bush lied so did France, Germany, and Russia, among countless other intelligence agencies.
Causing the deaths of over 2,000 U.S. troops and the maiming of over 10,000 more----Hussein was given 6 month warning BEFORE we went in to open up and fully disclose certain locations...he didn't, How about we switch the blame to someone else that could have stopped this from happenning....Of course adamant Bush haters won't think about this or acknowledge that.
Failing to provide adequate equipment and armor to U.S. troops---This I can't argue and will support to a point. I remember another war troops were given a new automatic rifle.....then they jammed in the field, so maybe safety measures are in place now to prevent something like that before testing is complete....but I have no defense here and conceed it.....However congress could have pushed for this in higher demand as well and I am sure it would have been corrected.
Allowing illegal torture and murder of prisoners ---Torture and murder? What are you talking about? Humiliation, sure....but I have seen far worse in our own Prisoners for U.S. citizens.
Causing the deaths of 100,000 Iraqi civilians---See previous mention about Hussein
Spending $300 billion in just two years for an occupation that could last for decades
Letting Halliburton steal billions through no-bid contracts---What was stolen and what other company had the resources for the job that did a job such as they are doing in the 20 years?
Using vast quantities of depleted uranium weapons that will poison Iraq now and for generations to come---HUH? Missed that one...
September 11---If you seriously blame him for that...We can not speak...the guy was in office a meer 8 months...I don't know a single political initiative he could have enacted to prevent that.
Ignoring countless warnings of an attack in the U.S.----Really...from who and when?
Reading "My Pet Goat" during the attack---Sorry, I thought the first plane was a drunk Pilot AGAIN! Remember this was happening a lot (drunk pilots) leading up to that point. Made the news quite frequently....John Kerry sat dumbfounded for over 1.5 hours and did or said nothing...and you criticize the president for 11 minutes...how long did you stare at the TV while this was happening?
Letting Osama Bin Laden escape from Afghanistan-=----And ou are sure he still isn't hiding in those mountains. Geronimo led many indians in our own mountains for many years while the U.S. army was looking for him...in an area the size of new Mexico....
Holding no bureaucrat accountable for ignoring warnings---HUH?
Delaying and obstructing the 911 Commission investigation---Really? Looks to me like it got done..
Turning Afghanistan into the world's largest opium producer---how?
Terrorism---Oh and the hostage crisis of the 1979 was his fault as well...The cole bombing and the fiorst world trade center bombing I suppose as well.
Allowing international terrorism incidents to quadruple and trying to cover up the facts----If you count Iraq as terrorist acts...then sure....and I suppose he is to blame for the bombing in England and Spain...It is ALL his fault...as if he had some control over it...
Failing to secure our borders and ports to prevent terrorism---I agree
Creating a new generation of terrorists through the invasion of Iraq and the killing of 100,000 civilians----This can't be proven and so can not be shown to be factual...this is an assumption and opinion.
Letting terrorists buy high-powered weapons inside the U.S.--Ok, explain this one...
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Letting North Korea build nuclear bombs and missiles that can cross the Pacific Ocean---Didn't Clinton give them a whole bunch of money that they used for this? Thought so...but it is Bush's fault.
Refusing to shut down Pakistan's nuclear weapons exports
Foreign relations
Turning the world against the United States---Really...Who in the world theater hates us? In fact, Germany and France just elected new leaders that expressed their desire to work with the U.S. more so than in the past...
Preparing for another war with Iran---so we should let them go nuclear?
Signing treaties that cost America jobs and undermine American laws--Yet unemployment is under 5%
Economy---Is booming
Letting gasoline prices double at devastating cost to the economy---Ask your local rep to wave the state tax and it might save you 70%.. while oil companies make record profits---so oil companies shouldn't profit?
Letting corrupt companies like Enron steal billions from consumers and employees----Didn't Enron occur under the clinton watch also?
Cutting taxes for the rich and turning a $5 trillion budget surplus into a $5 trillion budget deficit----and I am sure sending record amounts of Money to Africa didn't affect more than the tax cuts
Adding trillions to the national debt, which our children and grandchildren will have to pay off with interest--
Freedom---is still here
Letting bureaucrats wiretap Americans without a court order---Wiretapped out of country numbers...not illegal
Locking up suspects for years without charges or trials---under geneva convention rules POW may be held till the end of conflict without a trial. Blame the U.N. for this being legal.
Arresting nonviolent protesters at Bush events---were the charged and jailed or fined?
Packing the courts with right-wing judges to outlaw abortion---yet abortion still stands..
Ordering federal courts to interfere in the Terri Schiavo tragedy---yet terri shiavo still was taken off life support
Taking away our right to sue corporations through class actions---really, I have seen a few class actions against corp.
Taking away our right to declare bankruptcy under Chapter 7 and forcing middle-class Americans into debt slavery---well...If you agreed to pay it, I believe you should...IT IS CALLED RESPONSIBILITY!
Democracy---Sorry, we aren't a democracy, we never were.
Stealing the Presidential elections of 2000 and 2004---Oh I forget, the democrats are to inept to win or steal an election themselves, so this must be BUSH stealing the election always.
Refusing to investigate the disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of voters in Florida and Ohio---Because this falls under state jurisdiction...try reading the law a little bit.
Promoting black-box electronic voting machines without paper trails---You have no problem using your computer for work which has no paper trail either.
Embracing dictators in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Russia, and China--Lat I heard Russia was a democracy...and being a dictator isn't bad, when that dictator kills his own people senslessly, then they are bad.
Overthrowing democratically-elected leaders in Haiti and Venezuela--Last I checked Chavez was President...and who gives a crap about Haiti?
Environment---Is getting cleaner each day....
Allowing global warming, which will cause massive environmental damage---Arer you frickin' kidding me? What about every other world leader allowing this and every previous leader...
Allowing more toxic mercury in the air and water---Explain please.
Allowing oil drilling in wilderness areas---where.
Scandals--like no other president hasn't had these.
Illegally "outing" CIA agent Valerie Plame, an important anti-terrorism official---Bush did this?
Letting a gay male prostitute (Jeff Gannon) roam free in the White House---and it is illegal to be at the white house if you are gay?
Paying journalists to give favorable coverage to the administration
Which journalist was paid?
Relying on an earpiece for answers during debates and press conferences---just like every other president....
Going AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard in 1972 and covering it up ever since--Just like dodging the draft huh?
Defending the most corrupt Member of Congress (Tom DeLay)
really? he was the most?
 

jmick

Active Member
I certainly agree that all of the info on the list isn't stellar and I was to lazy to edit any of it...but as far as paying journalists (it may not have been handed out by Bush but it was done to help push his initiatives)...
(CBS/AP) A syndicated newspaper columnist received at least $4,000 from the Department of Health and Human Services for work in support of President Bush's effort to promote marriage, USA Today reports.
Mike McManus is the third commentator to receive money from a federal agency to boost Bush policy initiatives. The newspaper said McManus got the money to train marriage mentors.
USA Today also said Marriage Savers, a non-profit organization operated by McManus, received $49,000 from a group that receives HHS money to promote marriage to unwed couples who are having children.
The newspaper said McManus had boosted the Bush marriage initiative in his column on several occasions since he began receiving government money in 2003. USA Today also reported that Wade Horn, the HHS official who manages McManus' contract with the agency, was quoted in at least three of the columns.
Horn is a former member of the Marriage Savers board of directors, the newspaper said.
News of the McManus contract follows the disclosure that syndicated columnist Maggie Gallagher was being paid $21,500 by HHS to push the White House's $300 million initiative to encourage marriage.
Columnist and commentator Armstrong Williams was paid $240,000 by the Education Department to plug Mr. Bush's No Child Left Behind legislation. That contract became known two weeks ago.
McManus told USA Today that the opinions expressed in his column were not influenced by his work for HHS. "I was hired because we have an expertise in working with churches," he said.
On Wednesday, President Bush ordered his Cabinet secretaries not to hire columnists to promote administration policy.
"All our Cabinet secretaries must realize that we will not be paying commentators to advance our agenda," Mr. Bush said. "Our agenda ought to be able to stand on its own two feet."
That wasn't good enough for the Democrats.
Sens. Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts and Frank Lautenberg of New Jersey say they will introduce a bill next week that would strengthen existing law against using government funds for publicity or propaganda within the United States.
"This abuse by HHS is just another in a long list of similar incidents of paid policy advocates supporting Bush Administration policies," the senators wrote.
Also Wednesday, the House Committee on Government Reform released a report on the use of taxpayer dollars for public relations campaigns. It found the administration spent a record $88 million on government-funded public relations contracts in 2004 — more than double the amount spent in 2000, according to the report prepared for House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and other Democrats.
Several investigations, including one by Congress' investigative arm, the Government Accountability Office, and the Education Department, are under way. They are looking into whether any laws were broken — and if so, by whom — when Williams was given the money to produce television and radio ads promoting the No Child Left Behind Act.
Williams has apologized, calling it a mistake in judgment to not disclose that the administration was paying him, but insisting he broke no laws.
Gallagher apologized to readers in her column Tuesday, saying she was not paid to promote marriage but "to produce particular research and writing products" — articles, brochures, presentations. "My lifelong experience in marriage research, public education and advocacy is the reason HHS hired me," she wrote.
She said it never occurred to her to tell readers about her work for the government. "I should have disclosed a government contract when I later wrote about the Bush marriage initiative. I would have, if I had remembered it. My apologies to my readers."
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
I can see the problem, but I don't remember Bush speaking on any marriage topic other than Gay marriage....
Let me ask you this, In new mexico we have APS=Albuquerque Public Schools....if the paid a journalist to run a story for them, is that the fault of our mayor?
 

nigerbang

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
Causing the deaths of over 2,000 U.S. troops and the maiming of over 10,000 more

Get serious...Do you think that ppl who SIGN UP for military duty think that they are going to sit around drinking soda and watching TV?!?!?!
They know what the job entails...I have lost 2 friends in Iraq and had several more come home...The 2 I lost were doing what they loved...Defending peoples rights to talk trash about them....and the ones that have came home are counting the days until R&R are up so they can go back...Listen to anyone who has been there.....The people are glad we are there...The ones who dont want us there is the enemy..
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
I can see the problem, but I don't remember Bush speaking on any marriage topic other than Gay marriage....
Let me ask you this, In new mexico we have APS=Albuquerque Public Schools....if the paid a journalist to run a story for them, is that the fault of our mayor?
If the story was pushing one of his initiatives then I would say yes.
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by NigerBang
Get serious...Do you think that ppl who SIGN UP for military duty think that they are going to sit around drinking soda and watching TV?!?!?!
They know what the job entails...I have lost 2 friends in Iraq and had several more come home...The 2 I lost were doing what they loved...Defending peoples rights to talk trash about them....and the ones that have came home are counting the days until R&R are up so they can go back...Listen to anyone who has been there.....The people are glad we are there...The ones who dont want us there is the enemy..
So who was talking trash about the soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan? Or do you tie anyone who is not supportive of the war as also being unsupportive of our troops?
 

nigerbang

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
So who was talking trash about the soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan? Or do you tie anyone who is not supportive of the war as also being unsupportive of our troops?

To say that W is responsible for more 2000 deaths...He didnt kill them..and there is a difference in supporting troops and a war..
 

seasalt101

Active Member
i wish i could take cedit as the author but no that's not me, i'll take anything i can get for posting it here though thank you...tobin
 

pontius

Active Member
Originally Posted by NigerBang
To say that W is responsible for more 2000 deaths...He didnt kill them..and there is a difference in supporting troops and a war..
you're right, the current number is a little more than 3500.
and Tobin, yes, I personally think Reagan is one of the greatest presidents in history. definitely the best in my lifetime. and while I never liked Clinton (and sure as hell don't like Hillary), I think he was a better president than most Republicans give him credit for. the worst thing he did was cutting the military budget. but he did do a lot of good things too.
 

reefreak29

Active Member
can u imagine if we could have a president that makes no mistakes , is right in what he does 100 percent of the time and has 100 percent approval rateing . that will never happen why even argue about it , knowmatter whos in office there will always be faults
 

dohboy35

Member
i have one question, WHY IS THIS IN A FOURM ABOUT FISH TANKS? I mean common guys, no goverment is perfect and there will never be one, if our system is so bad then why are people fighting so hard to come here? As far as knowing if a President was good or bad takes several years to determine, its still too soon for Cliton much less Bush. If you dont like it here then pack up and move to N. Korea where if you critisize the government not only you but your entire famly and relitives are locked up in camps, or give mexico a try i hear and see their ecomy is really great and living condition for everyday people are just the bomb.
 

seasalt101

Active Member
Originally Posted by dohboy35
i have one question, WHY IS THIS IN A FOURM ABOUT FISH TANKS? I mean common guys, no goverment is perfect and there will never be one, if our system is so bad then why are people fighting so hard to come here? As far as knowing if a President was good or bad takes several years to determine, its still too soon for Cliton much less Bush. If you dont like it here then pack up and move to N. Korea where if you critisize the government not only you but your entire famly and relitives are locked up in camps, or give mexico a try i hear and see their ecomy is really great and living condition for everyday people are just the bomb.
if you have any knowledge of this site with your mighty 6 post you would know the aquarium is for off topic conversation not about fish check all the threads here not a lot about fish here...tobin
 

dohboy35

Member
Excuse me for being new to the board (Only 24hours) i hadnt noticed which thread it was in was browsing by most recent post. I did expect a flame better then that though...lol
 
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