To the people who bash Bush here's what we had

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
In all fairness, you can't blame Clinton, Bush1, or Reagan for not capturing and containing Bin Laden because none of them could have forseen the events of 911 and Bin Laden being capable of that. I do believe that we had the chance to get him after the fact, but we failed and missed the opportunities we did have.
you are right on Bush1 and Reagan, but not on Clinton. Clinton does bare some of the blame becuse bin laden was behind the USS Cole and the African embassy bombing and several other attacks while Clinton was in office. while Bush1 and Reagan were in office, bin laden was not a threat to the US.

 

[seasalt101]

Originally Posted by Pontius
you are right, but that led to bin laden being exiled from saudi arabia. it was more of a case (if I remember right) that the saudis felt that bin laden was going to cause trouble and they didn't want a rift between them and the US. but there was really nothing hard on bin laden at that time, that was before he really started any major terrorist operations. in fact, I think that was before the first WTC attack (which bin laden had nothing to do with anyway).
i could of swore i seen some link between bin laden and that blind cleric i cannot recall his name right now...tobin

 

[mike22cha]

I don't think Clinton was a moral insperation to us all and I don't think Bush is going to be the next George Washington. The fact is that we haven't seen a lot of great presidents for a while, and no man is perfect. And honestly I don't think a good president is coming for a while looking at next elections canidates.

 

[triga22]

Jmick
So how does going back to Clinton's errors matter? The past is the past and we need to focus on what the current administration is doing...thought this little list was interesting...
What are the top reasons for impeaching Bush?
Iraq
Invading Iraq without any threat to the U.S.
Lying about Iraqi WMD's to Congress and the American people
Causing the deaths of over 2,000 U.S. troops and the maiming of over 10,000 more
Failing to provide adequate equipment and armor to U.S. troops
Allowing illegal torture and murder of prisoners
Causing the deaths of 100,000 Iraqi civilians
Spending $300 billion in just two years for an occupation that could last for decades
Letting Halliburton steal billions through no-bid contracts
Using vast quantities of depleted uranium weapons that will poison Iraq now and for generations to come
September 11
Ignoring countless warnings of an attack in the U.S.
Reading "My Pet Goat" during the attack
Letting Osama Bin Laden escape from Afghanistan
Holding no bureaucrat accountable for ignoring warnings
Delaying and obstructing the 911 Commission investigation
Turning Afghanistan into the world's largest opium producer
Terrorism
Allowing international terrorism incidents to quadruple and trying to cover up the facts
Failing to secure our borders and ports to prevent terrorism
Creating a new generation of terrorists through the invasion of Iraq and the killing of 100,000 civilians
Letting terrorists buy high-powered weapons inside the U.S.
Letting North Korea build nuclear bombs and missiles that can cross the Pacific Ocean
Refusing to shut down Pakistan's nuclear weapons exports
Foreign relations
Turning the world against the United States
Preparing for another war with Iran
Signing treaties that cost America jobs and undermine American laws
Economy
Letting gasoline prices double at devastating cost to the economy while oil companies make record profits
Letting corrupt companies like Enron steal billions from consumers and employees
Cutting taxes for the rich and turning a $5 trillion budget surplus into a $5 trillion budget deficit
Adding trillions to the national debt, which our children and grandchildren will have to pay off with interest
Letting millions of American jobs go overseas
Freedom
Letting bureaucrats wiretap Americans without a court order
Locking up suspects for years without charges or trials
Arresting nonviolent protesters at Bush events
Packing the courts with right-wing judges to outlaw abortion
Ordering federal courts to interfere in the Terri Schiavo tragedy
Taking away our right to sue corporations through class actions
Taking away our right to declare bankruptcy under Chapter 7 and forcing middle-class Americans into debt slavery
Democracy
Stealing the Presidential elections of 2000 and 2004
Refusing to investigate the disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of voters in Florida and Ohio
Promoting black-box electronic voting machines without paper trails
Embracing dictators in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Russia, and China
Overthrowing democratically-elected leaders in Haiti and Venezuela
Environment
Allowing global warming, which will cause massive environmental damage
Allowing more toxic mercury in the air and water
Allowing oil drilling in wilderness areas
Scandals
Illegally "outing" CIA agent Valerie Plame, an important anti-terrorism official
Letting a gay male prostitute (Jeff Gannon) roam free in the White House
Paying journalists to give favorable coverage to the administration
Relying on an earpiece for answers during debates and press conferences
Going AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard in 1972 and covering it up ever since
Defending the most corrupt Member of Congress (Tom DeLay)
How about getting your facts right. Its all clintons fault that Osama wasnt caught not Bush.
100,000 civilians well lets see we got suddam who was casuing them so I think we save them. And I dont feel like reading the rest.

 

[jovial]

Wasnt Clinton impeached?

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by TriGa22
100,000 civilians well lets see we got suddam who was casuing them so I think we save them. And I dont feel like reading the rest.

I guess it's a wash then...the civilians who have died during our occupation are probably the ones saddam would have killed anyway...not to mention all the people who have fled for fear of their safety.

 

[seasalt101]

Originally Posted by Jmick
I guess it's a wash then...the civilians who have died during our occupation are probably the ones saddam would have killed anyway...not to mention all the people who have fled for fear of their safety.
seeing as al quada has killed most of the civillians anyway you do agree with that right? you do not think that these deaths would not of happened in there civil war that is and would of took place anyway? or are you just going to blame the u.s for every death in this conflict?...tobin

 

[skipperdz]

people always blame the president regardless, the american people will do it with the next pres. and so on. congress and senate will agree with him/her, something will go wrong and they will flop over to the other side. the patterns gone on forever. as far as middle east goes, its been like this for over 2000yrs, anyone who thinks we are in and out of there in under 10yrs is kiddng themselves. last i checked we were in germany for almost 40 yrs. or did we as a whole forget that?

 

[nvmycj]

Originally Posted by NigerBang
Get serious...Do you think that ppl who SIGN UP for military duty think that they are going to sit around drinking soda and watching TV?!?!?!
They know what the job entails...I have lost 2 friends in Iraq and had several more come home...The 2 I lost were doing what they loved...Defending peoples rights to talk trash about them....and the ones that have came home are counting the days until R&R are up so they can go back...Listen to anyone who has been there.....The people are glad we are there...The ones who dont want us there is the enemy..
I can't agree with you more. I served, proudly, and knew the responsibilities and risks of my career. TWO weeks after I left the Army, my unit, 101st Airborn Division, received orders for Iraq. My wife found it a blessing that I got out before receiving my orders for the sandbox. I didn't agree. I wanted to go. I begged her to let me get re-commissioned. But, happy wife, happy life. I served my country to protect it's freedom. The same freedom that is allowing us to talk crap about our president. Try doing that in a communist country, where my family used to live.
Secondly, the issue with Clinton......... He was my Commander-in-Chief. He was my president. In the military, we have a Uniformed Code of Military Justice, UCMJ. Kind of like, additional laws military men and women have to conform to. If I, a soldier, get caught with adultery or even suspicious of it, I'd get dishonorably discharged and sent to the military jailhouse. I'm sorry, but the man lied to Congress, his wife, and to us, THE NATION HE WAS IN COMMAND OF!!! And there was no consequence to this. So then, it MUST be OK for us troops to do the same, if our Commander-in-Chief did it. Maybe we'll get a pardon from him, but I don't think the same would come from my other half, my ULTIMATE Commander-in-Chief!!!

 

[sepulatian]

I didn't even bother to read this entire thread. Talking about National embarrassment because Clinton was fooling around with a co-worker? Ok, what about JFK? Let's talk about National embarrassment when Bush decided to bomb overseas without support from the allies then asked them for help. He has put this country into trillions of dollars in debt that we can't pay back. The rest of the world has even a lower oppinion of us than they did before (if that is even possible). Bush's strongest argument was how he wanted to build up the military back when he was first elected. He stressed how important the military was. Maybe 911 was just a coincidence, I don't want to get into that. All I can say is I cannot wait to see him gone.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Jovial
Wasnt Clinton impeached?
yeah, but Bush should be too, so it's kind of a non-point.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Pontius
yeah, but Bush should be too, so it's kind of a non-point.

For what reason's? I don't personally like the guy but I don't see any violations of law on his part...Could you explain this a bit more as to why you think so?

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
For what reason's? I don't personally like the guy but I don't see any violations of law on his part...Could you explain this a bit more as to why you think so?
well, for starters, how about leading us into a war based on lies? then, how about leaving the borders wide open despite the fact that this is a very clear national security threat. why hasn't he done anything about the borders? because his big business buddies benefit from the slave labor that walks freely across the southern border. not to mention the firings of the federal attorneys for political agenda and all the other shady practices that he's been involved with.
Clinton lied under oath about extramarital --- in the oval office and got impeached. ok, fair enough. you telling me that THAT is worse than leaving the border wide open for any and everybody to walk on in and do whatever they want?

 

[seasalt101]

Originally Posted by Pontius
well, for starters, how about leading us into a war based on lies? then, how about leaving the borders wide open despite the fact that this is a very clear national security threat. why hasn't he done anything about the borders? because his big business buddies benefit from the slave labor that walks freely across the southern border. not to mention the firings of the federal attorneys for political agenda and all the other shady practices that he's been involved with.
Clinton lied under oath about extramarital --- in the oval office and got impeached. ok, fair enough. you telling me that THAT is worse than leaving the border wide open for any and everybody to walk on in and do whatever they want?
clinton's scandals go much farther than monica...tobin

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by seasalt101
clinton's scandals go much farther than monica...tobin
Bush's scandals go very deep as well.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Pontius
well, for starters, how about leading us into a war based on lies? then, how about leaving the borders wide open despite the fact that this is a very clear national security threat. why hasn't he done anything about the borders? because his big business buddies benefit from the slave labor that walks freely across the southern border. not to mention the firings of the federal attorneys for political agenda and all the other shady practices that he's been involved with.
Clinton lied under oath about extramarital --- in the oval office and got impeached. ok, fair enough. you telling me that THAT is worse than leaving the border wide open for any and everybody to walk on in and do whatever they want?
We have gone over the "lies" issue....I won't rehash the fact that every major leader in the world also then lied about that. You still have to have evidence that he lied....do you have that? That he blatantly made up intelligence?
Ok, the border security issue....currently this is a failure of government as a whole...but again, no law broken on his part.
Clinton committed Perjury which is a violation of LAW! You can speak your personal beliefs all day.,..However, until you show me a LAW broken by President Bush, there is no cause for impeachment, which is exactly why he hasn't been impeached yet..

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
We have gone over the "lies" issue....I won't rehash the fact that every major leader in the world also then lied about that. You still have to have evidence that he lied....do you have that? That he blatantly made up intelligence?
Ok, the border security issue....currently this is a failure of government as a whole...but again, no law broken on his part.
Clinton committed Perjury which is a violation of LAW! You can speak your personal beliefs all day.,..However, until you show me a LAW broken by President Bush, there is no cause for impeachment, which is exactly why he hasn't been impeached yet..
there is much evidence that shows that Bush's administration took any and everything they could to feed the propaganda machine to get the public stirred up for war. that's fact.
do you know that the border partol is under attack and they're not even allowed to respond to idiots throwing rocks and other weapons at them? the national guard put on the border aren't even allowed to make arrests. it's the president's job to keep the nation safe, and he is refusing to do so.
he's not going to be impeached now, he's only got a year and a few months left. and that's why his crimes are becoming more and more flagrant, because he knows he can't be touched.

 

[darthtang aw]

Again...show me the Federal statute that he has violated...until you do it is the equivalent to screaming OJ should be in jail.....

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Again...show me the Federal statute that he has violated...until you do it is the equivalent to screaming OJ should be in jail.....
that makes no sense. OJ SHOULD be in jail. you want me to do the job that it would take a whole team of federal prosecutors and numerous capitol hill hearings to do to show you that Bush should be impeached? sorry, not going to put all that together for you, but the truth is out there if you care to investigate it at all for yourself. Bush lied to get the American public stirred up for war, you can keep your head in the sand about that if you want to. just like he lied to the people about how illegal immigrants are so important to this country.

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by Pontius
Bush's scandals go very deep as well.
sure and the next president as well , and so on and forth