unions

veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878428
Lets take this thread as a unscientific poll, you are the only one (besides zman) who has said anything good about unions...
If you think that will vindicate your beliefs be my guest,but it still wouldnt change my views even if me and Z where the only 2,i can look myself in the mirror every morning and now what i do is honest and good.And that i have earned my fair modest salary.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2878436
If you think that will vindicate your beliefs be my guest,but it still wouldnt change my views even if me and Z where the only 2,i can look myself in the mirror every morning and now what i do is honest and good.And that i have earned my fair modest salary.
You don't think without the union, telling you when/where/how to do things, when and how much you'll get promotions/raises, etc, if you fully applied yourself every day in a non-union job, you could very possibly be 'further along' then being in that union, living life out on a script? Or is my perception way off?
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2878436
If you think that will vindicate your beliefs be my guest,but it still wouldnt change my views even if me and Z where the only 2,i can look myself in the mirror every morning and now what i do is honest and good.And that i have earned my fair modest salary.
I'm just pointing out that more people than you think realise the truth about unions.
What union has been around since the 1300's?
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2878442
You don't think without the union, telling you when/where/how to do things, when and how much you'll get promotions/raises, etc, if you fully applied yourself every day in a non-union job, you could very possibly be 'further along' then being in that union, living life out on a script? Or is my perception way off?
My union doesn't tell me when/where and/how to do things i have a number of union carpenter contractors that a work for,they either call me or i call them .If i am asked to work overtime they pay me for overtime,and i have learned through the union and from other union carpenters "How".I don't have to worry about promotions or raises ,the raise comes with re negotiations of our contracts with pro-union contractors and i get x-amount of dollars if I'm running a crew per man that i am supervising.If i decided to live life outside the script and become my own company i would become a union company.
I think many of you have some misconceptions of unions and perceive them of being evil destroyers of our economy.
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878464
I'm just pointing out that more people than you think realise the truth about unions.
What union has been around since the 1300's?
The Carpenters' Guild, the parent body of today's labor unions, was formed in England in 1333.
Ahhh truth.....truth can take many forms ,it depends on from who's eyes its seen.
 
ironeagle2006

ironeagle2006

Active Member
I have seen the UNIONS greed in the Teamsters. Ask a CF Driver you can not do it the COMPANY IS GONE BANKRUPTED BY THE TEAMSTERS. If Hoffa does not watch it Yellow Roadway and a few others will be on their way also and say bye to the Union in the LTL carriers. Here was a service call I got sent on 13 years ago. Driver for Roadway lost the lights on his back pup he was a linehaul driver I get the page at 3 freaking AM and go out. Now my company charged 80 just for the service call then 100 bucks an hour from the time I left my apt headed to the shop and then out to the location were the driver HOPEFULLY was. Turns out he was 20 miles further away than tehy said he was. I get to the truck all the problem was was HIS PIGTAIL HAD COME OUT FROM THE DOLLY CONVERTER. I told him you are aware that there is a 2 hour minamum for me once I do get on scene he was like I do not give a crap. For a 40 second repair that is how long it took me to reinstall the pigtail from the dolly to the pup and wiretie it in cost Roadway 400 bucks or 10 dollars a second. Yet this driver was happy to be spending the company money. Now they are screaming about having to give back 10% of their wages in exchange for 15% of the preferred stock to keep the company afloat. Why you ask? Teamsters are only after one thing money why do you think Wal-Mart pays their drivers so well to keep the Teamsters out of there. Think about it if they Unions wanted to make Wal-Mart's life hell FORGET THE STORES they can replace the workers there GO AFTER THE TRUCKS AND THE DC workers without them that whole company would collaspe like a house of cards.
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/2878474
I have seen the UNIONS greed in the Teamsters. Ask a CF Driver you can not do it the COMPANY IS GONE BANKRUPTED BY THE TEAMSTERS. If Hoffa does not watch it Yellow Roadway and a few others will be on their way also and say bye to the Union in the LTL carriers. Here was a service call I got sent on 13 years ago. Driver for Roadway lost the lights on his back pup he was a linehaul driver I get the page at 3 freaking AM and go out. Now my company charged 80 just for the service call then 100 bucks an hour from the time I left my apt headed to the shop and then out to the location were the driver HOPEFULLY was. Turns out he was 20 miles further away than tehy said he was. I get to the truck all the problem was was HIS PIGTAIL HAD COME OUT FROM THE DOLLY CONVERTER. I told him you are aware that there is a 2 hour minamum for me once I do get on scene he was like I do not give a crap. For a 40 second repair that is how long it took me to reinstall the pigtail from the dolly to the pup and wiretie it in cost Roadway 400 bucks or 10 dollars a second. Yet this driver was happy to be spending the company money. Now they are screaming about having to give back 10% of their wages in exchange for 15% of the preferred stock to keep the company afloat. Why you ask? Teamsters are only after one thing money why do you think Wal-Mart pays their drivers so well to keep the Teamsters out of there. Think about it if they Unions wanted to make Wal-Mart's life hell FORGET THE STORES they can replace the workers there GO AFTER THE TRUCKS AND THE DC workers without them that whole company would collaspe like a house of cards.
Ive seen stock market traders arrested and jailed for insider trading,does that make all traders corrupt?
If the Teamsters Union wasnt here do you think Walmart drivers would be paid so well?
Ive also seen alot of Banks,and financial establishment as well as a lot of other type of businesses go under.Who are we gonna blame for that? Unions?
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2878470
My union doesn't tell me when/where and/how to do things i have a number of union carpenter contractors that a work for,they either call me or i call them .If i am asked to work overtime they pay me for overtime,and i have learned through the union and from other union carpenters "How".I don't have to worry about promotions or raises ,the raise comes with re negotiations of our contracts with pro-union contractors and i get x-amount of dollars if I'm running a crew per man that i am supervising.If i decided to live life outside the script and become my own company i would become a union company.
I think many of you have some misconceptions of unions and perceive them of being evil destroyers of our economy.
Hmmm... Please forgive me if it came off the wrong way. I am just simiply very curious as I really don't have an idea about the subject. I really only know what I do, based off personal experience experience.
I think you may be already be above what I'm asking. I use my Dad as the example. When he started out at 18, he was an aircraft engine mechanic, non-union. He did great and was bright, so they moved him up to records manager. Then eventually up to senior manager, and is now VP of Operations at 45.
I guess what I'm asking is in a union carpentary field, is something like that possible? Could a young carpenter, start out so basic, and be 'moved long' up to such a position? Or because of these standard "promotions and raises" that are fixed, only at renegotiations, can one move up?
 
ironeagle2006

ironeagle2006

Active Member
Not as well as they are BUT RIGHT UP THERE. Sam Walton was NOT AN IDIOT HE KNEW THAT HAVING CONTROL OF THE DRIVERS WOULD LOWER HIS TRANSPORTATION COSTS WHEN HE STARTED THE TRUCKING SIDE HE HAD 20 STAORS AND ONE DC HE PAID THE DRIVERS VERY WELL THEN AND KEPT IT UP EVEN BEYOND WHAT THE BEST OTR CARRIERS PAY OR WOULD THINK OF PAYING. YET THE STORE EMPLOYEES ARE THE ONES THAT THE UNIONS GO AFTER WRONG END TO DO SO THEY MAY BE THE FACE BUT WITHOUT THE BONES AND MUSCLE BEHIND IT WAL MART WOULD BE SMALLER THAN KOHLS.
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2878488
Hmmm... Please forgive me if it came off the wrong way. I am just simiply very curious as I really don't have an idea about the subject. I really only know what I do, based off personal experience experience.
I think you may be already be above what I'm asking. I use my Dad as the example. When he started out at 18, he was an aircraft engine mechanic, non-union. He did great and was bright, so they moved him up to records manager. Then eventually up to senior manager, and is now VP of Operations at 45.
I guess what I'm asking is in a union carpentary field, is something like that possible? Could a young carpenter, start out so basic, and be 'moved long' up to such a position? Or because of these standard "promotions and raises" that are fixed, only at renegotiations, can one move up?
No not really as a member ,you start off as a 1st yr apprentice then 2nd third,forth, and then Journeyman. You get additional pay for foremen if you supervise more than 5 workers.If you get in with a union company on a permanent basis they may move you up to a higher position with additional pay at their discretion.I personally and regretfully have declined offers because i like being in the field.However i'm content with my pay scale and look forward to having a decent pension when i retire.
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/2878492
Not as well as they are BUT RIGHT UP THERE. Sam Walton was NOT AN IDIOT HE KNEW THAT HAVING CONTROL OF THE DRIVERS WOULD LOWER HIS TRANSPORTATION COSTS WHEN HE STARTED THE TRUCKING SIDE HE HAD 20 STAORS AND ONE DC HE PAID THE DRIVERS VERY WELL THEN AND KEPT IT UP EVEN BEYOND WHAT THE BEST OTR CARRIERS PAY OR WOULD THINK OF PAYING. YET THE STORE EMPLOYEES ARE THE ONES THAT THE UNIONS GO AFTER WRONG END TO DO SO THEY MAY BE THE FACE BUT WITHOUT THE BONES AND MUSCLE BEHIND IT WAL MART WOULD BE SMALLER THAN KOHLS.
Let me state for the record this,I don't think every union is necessary and some are just flat out stupid.I wont name names but some aren't needed and cant be justified.IMHO I can only speak on my beliefs on my Union and trade.I dont back every Union just because its Union,but i will back all of the building trades.I will still try to only purchase thing that say"Made in the USA" Union or not.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Thanks Veni. That actually sparked another couples question/thought if you feel like continuing to humor me. Say if like a 3rd year was good and typically outperformed a journeyman, there's no way he could move up or pass a typical journeyman, and just has to "bid his time" working the system? Or could he switch union companies and take a journey paying job elsewhere? Or are salaries pretty much fixed everywhere?
Which is actually the other question, the union/company thing. It seems like the idea of a 'company' is lost. It seems like you just work for the union, and the company that hires the union, pays the union and the union pays you. Or is there a middle company? Like you work for a labor company, that is part of a union, and the company hires your company to do the work and the union just basically sees that it's members are looked after properly?
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2878507
Thanks Veni. That actually sparked another couples question/thought if you feel like continuing to humor me. Say if like a 3rd year was good and typically outperformed a journeyman, there's no way he could move up or pass a typical journeyman, and just has to "bid his time" working the system? Or could he switch union companies and take a journey paying job elsewhere? Or are salaries pretty much fixed everywhere?
That is how it is set up,But i have seen apprentices get paid Journeyman wages often because they are worth it and are assets to the company .
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2878507
Which is actually the other question, the union/company thing. It seems like the idea of a 'company' is lost. It seems like you just work for the union, and the company that hires the union, pays the union. Or is there a middle company? Like you work for a labor company, that is part of a union, and the company hires your company to do the work?
Each individual company i work for has signed a contract with the union to use only union members.These company are generally large and do large scale jobs.My union has a set amount of dollars that is charged per hr for me.Most of the dollars come to me directly from the company im working for, the rest goes towards my health care and pension fund.In turn i pay my union dues quarterly.So in a sense I'm paying my union a small fee to work and have the benefits that come with being a member"decent pay,health insurance,and legal assistance,a retirement fund." A company will use Union Carpenters for a few reasons.Large workforce of highly trained, skilled ,safety conscious and efficient to name a few
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2878539
That is how it is set up,But i have seen apprentices get paid Journeyman wages often because they are worth it and are assets to the company .
Each individual company i work for has signed a contract with the union to use only union members.These company are generally large and do large scale jobs.My union has a set amount of dollars that is charged per hr for me.Most of the dollars come to me directly from the company im working for, the rest goes towards my health care and pension fund.In turn i pay my union dues quarterly.So in a sense I'm paying my union a small fee to work and have the benefits that come with being a member"decent pay,health insurance,and legal assistance,a retirement fund." A company will use Union Carpenters for a few reasons.Large workforce of highly trained, skilled ,safety conscious and efficient to name a few
Thanks. That was everything I asked I for.
The only thing is that it seems like there really isn't a place to 'hang your hat' so to speak. Like an engineer at Boeing, for instance, and he knows he will always be working for Boeing, therefore am completely devoted to working hard everyday because of the pride he takes in helping Boeing succeed. As where an union carpenter, might say work for 30 different companies a year. And if they don't particular like one current job, what's it matter to them? They just going to be working for someone else in 3 weeks...
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2878558
Thanks. That was everything I asked I for.
The only thing is that it seems like there really isn't a place to 'hang your hat' so to speak. Like an engineer at Boeing, for instance, and he knows he will always be working for Boeing, therefore am completely devoted to working hard everyday because of the pride he takes in helping Boeing succeed. As where an union carpenter, might say work for 30 different companies a year. And if they don't particular like one current job, what's it matter to them? They just going to be working for someone else in 3 weeks...
I see your point,Dont get me wrong though,when times where good like the past 15 years or so ,there are many many union carpenters that have been with the same company for 15 yrs plus, there is actually a scaffolding job starting up soon at a nuke plant that will run 7 years.I move around for a couple of reasons,Finish a job and the next one is farther away then another that i can have thats closer,Get tire of looking at the same guys everyday and need a change......Im a Union Carpenter but it dosent mean i cant be fired for not doing my job,they just call it a layoff or sometimes you just get flat out fired.Ive seen it happen to guys with big mouths ,or showing up late,,safety violation...... numerous different reasons.
 
jennythebugg

jennythebugg

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2878343
Just a gentle, but firm reminder;
Personal attacks are frowned upon. If you are guilty of this in the past and have been warned it repeated behavior could well end in a permanent vacation away from the forums.
If you have not been warned before, you have now.

Play nice or play elsewhere.
But I like this sandbooooxxxx
lol
 
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