fish master
Member
lovethesea, are you talking about overseas or in the usa. i thought if they were in usa their pay was comparable to ford, gm, etc. could be wrong
unions
- Thread starter fish master
- Start date
sharkbait9
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2878683
I doubt you will have anyone here say he was worth that much.
wait for rotarymagic to chime in, im sure he'll agree.
http:///forum/post/2878683
I doubt you will have anyone here say he was worth that much.
wait for rotarymagic to chime in, im sure he'll agree.
gmann1139
Active Member
Originally Posted by fish master
http:///forum/post/2876311
nothing personal rotary, but unions dont just let you in the union. you have to prove yourself
Yeah, you have to prove that you're not motivated enough to make the other guys look bad.
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2878198
The only jobs safe from outsourcing - Construction and the Service industries...
Don't forget Defense. All those bombs we drop on Third World countries are still Made in the USA.
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/2878492
YET THE STORE EMPLOYEES ARE THE ONES THAT THE UNIONS GO AFTER WRONG END TO DO SO THEY MAY BE THE FACE BUT WITHOUT THE BONES AND MUSCLE BEHIND IT WAL MART WOULD BE SMALLER THAN KOHLS.
Most of your comments have come off as less than intelligent (Its the caps), but this is fairly deep. Walmart's supply chain is so good its held up as a model, and they continue to improve it.
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2878558
Like an engineer at Boeing, for instance, and he knows he will always be working for Boeing, therefore am completely devoted to working hard everyday because of the pride he takes in helping Boeing succeed. ...
Uhh... bad example. The manager I'm working for has been with my company for 13 years, and almost as many company names, most of which you'd recognize. The Defense industry is an inbred mess of interlocking components who get bought and sold on a yearly basis.
Originally Posted by fish master
http:///forum/post/2878713
unions have health insurance. they have retirements.that is one of the topics the president and president elect talk about, how everyone should have health insurance. the unions have done that for the worker.
No, WWII did that. Wage freezes forced employers to look for other ways for compensate their employees.
If the unions were really out for the good of the worker, they would BE the insurance companies, instead of just forcing the employer to pay for it. Same with retirement and pensions, they should be managing the money for the members. Instead, its that extra $1500 in cost that retired workers are putting on Detroit that's going to make them go belly up.
I know we're not discussing CEOs here, but let's do some quick math...
10,000 workers times an extra $10 an hour times 2,000 hours a year = $200,000,000. Hmm...
http:///forum/post/2876311
nothing personal rotary, but unions dont just let you in the union. you have to prove yourself
Yeah, you have to prove that you're not motivated enough to make the other guys look bad.
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2878198
The only jobs safe from outsourcing - Construction and the Service industries...
Don't forget Defense. All those bombs we drop on Third World countries are still Made in the USA.
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/2878492
YET THE STORE EMPLOYEES ARE THE ONES THAT THE UNIONS GO AFTER WRONG END TO DO SO THEY MAY BE THE FACE BUT WITHOUT THE BONES AND MUSCLE BEHIND IT WAL MART WOULD BE SMALLER THAN KOHLS.
Most of your comments have come off as less than intelligent (Its the caps), but this is fairly deep. Walmart's supply chain is so good its held up as a model, and they continue to improve it.
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2878558
Like an engineer at Boeing, for instance, and he knows he will always be working for Boeing, therefore am completely devoted to working hard everyday because of the pride he takes in helping Boeing succeed. ...
Uhh... bad example. The manager I'm working for has been with my company for 13 years, and almost as many company names, most of which you'd recognize. The Defense industry is an inbred mess of interlocking components who get bought and sold on a yearly basis.
Originally Posted by fish master
http:///forum/post/2878713
unions have health insurance. they have retirements.that is one of the topics the president and president elect talk about, how everyone should have health insurance. the unions have done that for the worker.
No, WWII did that. Wage freezes forced employers to look for other ways for compensate their employees.
If the unions were really out for the good of the worker, they would BE the insurance companies, instead of just forcing the employer to pay for it. Same with retirement and pensions, they should be managing the money for the members. Instead, its that extra $1500 in cost that retired workers are putting on Detroit that's going to make them go belly up.
I know we're not discussing CEOs here, but let's do some quick math...
10,000 workers times an extra $10 an hour times 2,000 hours a year = $200,000,000. Hmm...
veni vidi vici
Active Member
Originally Posted by lovethesea
http:///forum/post/2878732
most of the folks who work for the auto plants at Nissan, and Toyota, make half that. AND still have (just like the rest of us) those items above taken out of their check. There is little turnover in those plants, so obviously they seem to be happy and probaly know full well without any other skill/education they would not be making that much.
For the love of GOD,Why does everyone assume that Union members are uneducated and have no other skills?
Dare i say ignorance or is it contempt,jealousy.... what is it?Do you all look at skilled labor as menial? I bet if you where living in a wood hut you would think we where genius.
http:///forum/post/2878732
most of the folks who work for the auto plants at Nissan, and Toyota, make half that. AND still have (just like the rest of us) those items above taken out of their check. There is little turnover in those plants, so obviously they seem to be happy and probaly know full well without any other skill/education they would not be making that much.
For the love of GOD,Why does everyone assume that Union members are uneducated and have no other skills?
Dare i say ignorance or is it contempt,jealousy.... what is it?Do you all look at skilled labor as menial? I bet if you where living in a wood hut you would think we where genius.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2878875
For the love of GOD,Why does everyone assume that Union members are uneducated and have no other skills?
Dare i say ignorance or is it contempt,jealousy.... what is it?Do you all look at skilled labor as menial? I bet if you where living in a wood hut you would think we where genius.
there is a difference between manual and skilled labor. And sitting on an assembly line is NOT skilled labor. And I once again point out that at this point that is probably most peoples mind set.
http:///forum/post/2878875
For the love of GOD,Why does everyone assume that Union members are uneducated and have no other skills?
Dare i say ignorance or is it contempt,jealousy.... what is it?Do you all look at skilled labor as menial? I bet if you where living in a wood hut you would think we where genius.
veni vidi vici
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878888
there is a difference between manual and skilled labor. And sitting on an assembly line is NOT skilled labor. And I once again point out that at this point that is probably most peoples mind set.
If this is the case then someone please change the title .I think i just had a small aneurysm in my neck.
http:///forum/post/2878888
If this is the case then someone please change the title .I think i just had a small aneurysm in my neck.
bionicarm
Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2878616
Im not sure what plant it is Fish i havent looked into it yet.I know it will be a tough job to get because of all the layoffs.If it keeps i may go down to San Antonio for awhile and see if i can grow the Carpenters Union in Texas lol. And visit with my family see what i can drum up down there.
We don't allow unions in San Antonio. Unless it's the Taco Vendor Union. Please no more snowbirds down here. We have enough of those vultures here as it is.
http:///forum/post/2878616
Im not sure what plant it is Fish i havent looked into it yet.I know it will be a tough job to get because of all the layoffs.If it keeps i may go down to San Antonio for awhile and see if i can grow the Carpenters Union in Texas lol. And visit with my family see what i can drum up down there.
We don't allow unions in San Antonio. Unless it's the Taco Vendor Union. Please no more snowbirds down here. We have enough of those vultures here as it is.
veni vidi vici
Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2879067
We don't allow unions in San Antonio. Unless it's the Taco Vendor Union. Please no more snowbirds down here. We have enough of those vultures here as it is.
You should pay more attention then ,because you do.I was in the Carpenters Union in San Antonio last summer,and so do the IBEW .So I'm sure there are more.
http://www.texascarpenterstrainingtr...tonio_facility
To bad for you,I migrated to Illinois from San Antonio as a Baby Union Carpenter,(well i was only 5)and now i plan on returning by mid summer "09" See y'all soon.
http:///forum/post/2879067
We don't allow unions in San Antonio. Unless it's the Taco Vendor Union. Please no more snowbirds down here. We have enough of those vultures here as it is.
You should pay more attention then ,because you do.I was in the Carpenters Union in San Antonio last summer,and so do the IBEW .So I'm sure there are more.
http://www.texascarpenterstrainingtr...tonio_facility
To bad for you,I migrated to Illinois from San Antonio as a Baby Union Carpenter,(well i was only 5)and now i plan on returning by mid summer "09" See y'all soon.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2878754
Is the guy American? How hot is it out?How big is the yard?Is it sloped and if it is how much? What kind of grass is it?How short should the grass to be cut?
What does nationality have to do with it? They have a VISA or are a citizen. does this matter on how much you value the work to be done? Because if so, then you are going against the "fair wage" unions promote. Human is human and work is work, so nationality should not matter if you are only looking for a "fair wage".
Size of lawn does not matter nor slope, of height of grass as this is a per hour pay scale. Not quota based. So how much per hour is "fair" to you to mow a lawn with a riding lawn mower and all the edging equipment. What would YOU pay someone to do this per hour.
Dodging the question only shows a conflict of what you feel is fair for the job, and what you feel a union employee should be paid...
http:///forum/post/2878754
Is the guy American? How hot is it out?How big is the yard?Is it sloped and if it is how much? What kind of grass is it?How short should the grass to be cut?
What does nationality have to do with it? They have a VISA or are a citizen. does this matter on how much you value the work to be done? Because if so, then you are going against the "fair wage" unions promote. Human is human and work is work, so nationality should not matter if you are only looking for a "fair wage".
Size of lawn does not matter nor slope, of height of grass as this is a per hour pay scale. Not quota based. So how much per hour is "fair" to you to mow a lawn with a riding lawn mower and all the edging equipment. What would YOU pay someone to do this per hour.
Dodging the question only shows a conflict of what you feel is fair for the job, and what you feel a union employee should be paid...
darthtang aw
Active Member
Originally Posted by fish master
http:///forum/post/2878753
actually i like mowing my lawn myself. but iam am starting a union company, ill be paying union wages. i want to know that my employees and familys are being taken care of
Of course you did not answer the question. How much would you pay someone per hour to mow your lawn? simple question.
http:///forum/post/2878753
actually i like mowing my lawn myself. but iam am starting a union company, ill be paying union wages. i want to know that my employees and familys are being taken care of
Of course you did not answer the question. How much would you pay someone per hour to mow your lawn? simple question.
egill
Member
I'm a member of the UFCW and they are a joke. They have no backbone anymore. They had their time back in the 70's-80's (from what I hear by the older members) but are worthless now. Only time we see a rep is when a member gets fired for stealing or not doing thier job and the union gets said worker their job back on technicaties(usually paperwork that wasn't filled). I'm a meat manager...highest paid hourly employee in the store and the union reps make twice what I do. Sad...very sad.
veni vidi vici
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2879373
What does nationality have to do with it? They have a VISA or are a citizen. does this matter on how much you value the work to be done? Because if so, then you are going against the "fair wage" unions promote. Human is human and work is work, so nationality should not matter if you are only looking for a "fair wage".
Size of lawn does not matter nor slope, of height of grass as this is a per hour pay scale. Not quota based. So how much per hour is "fair" to you to mow a lawn with a riding lawn mower and all the edging equipment. What would YOU pay someone to do this per hour.
Dodging the question only shows a conflict of what you feel is fair for the job, and what you feel a union employee should be paid...
If hes not a us citizen he get no work from me.American workers doin American work. I wouldnt pay someone to cut my own grass because i can do it myself.It is a pay per hour scale but i would have to estimate the size of the job to determine the time it would take so when he signs the contract to get the job done for x-amount of money in x -amount of time thats what he gets.If i agree to his estimate.over runs in cost have to be justifiable.Its a silly question
http:///forum/post/2879373
What does nationality have to do with it? They have a VISA or are a citizen. does this matter on how much you value the work to be done? Because if so, then you are going against the "fair wage" unions promote. Human is human and work is work, so nationality should not matter if you are only looking for a "fair wage".
Size of lawn does not matter nor slope, of height of grass as this is a per hour pay scale. Not quota based. So how much per hour is "fair" to you to mow a lawn with a riding lawn mower and all the edging equipment. What would YOU pay someone to do this per hour.
Dodging the question only shows a conflict of what you feel is fair for the job, and what you feel a union employee should be paid...
If hes not a us citizen he get no work from me.American workers doin American work. I wouldnt pay someone to cut my own grass because i can do it myself.It is a pay per hour scale but i would have to estimate the size of the job to determine the time it would take so when he signs the contract to get the job done for x-amount of money in x -amount of time thats what he gets.If i agree to his estimate.over runs in cost have to be justifiable.Its a silly question
darthtang aw
Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2879436
If hes not a us citizen he get no work from me.American workers doin American work. I wouldnt pay someone to cut my own grass because i can do it myself.It is a pay per hour scale but i would have to estimate the size of the job to determine the time it would cost so when he signs the contract to get the job done for x-amount of money in x -amount of time thats what he gets.If i agree to his estimate.over runs in coast have to be justifiable.Its a silly question
See, you are proving my point on unions. It is a simple question. How much would you be willing to pay someone to mow your lawn. Straight and simple. You have done the work, so you know what it entails. If Union guys make everything this complicated no wonder the big 3 are having money problems. It is a simple question yet you can not give a simple answer. Fine I will make it easier.
1/4 acre lawn.Bermuda grass, cut to a one inch length, Flat (no slope or grade) about 20 square feet of area that would need edged and trimmed as well. No trees or bushes. How much per hour?
http:///forum/post/2879436
If hes not a us citizen he get no work from me.American workers doin American work. I wouldnt pay someone to cut my own grass because i can do it myself.It is a pay per hour scale but i would have to estimate the size of the job to determine the time it would cost so when he signs the contract to get the job done for x-amount of money in x -amount of time thats what he gets.If i agree to his estimate.over runs in coast have to be justifiable.Its a silly question
See, you are proving my point on unions. It is a simple question. How much would you be willing to pay someone to mow your lawn. Straight and simple. You have done the work, so you know what it entails. If Union guys make everything this complicated no wonder the big 3 are having money problems. It is a simple question yet you can not give a simple answer. Fine I will make it easier.
1/4 acre lawn.Bermuda grass, cut to a one inch length, Flat (no slope or grade) about 20 square feet of area that would need edged and trimmed as well. No trees or bushes. How much per hour?
veni vidi vici
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2879379
Clearly this guy won't change his mind till he opens his own union labor company and they go on strike. And the union guys are making more money than him...
I would certainly pay my skilled labor more or as much as a pencil pusher or bean counter whose only concern is $.The carpenter superintendent ,foreman,and lead carpenter know what has to get done and when it has to be done by.The guys that do the work are given a schedule to meet.Its not a open ended time frame or money generator.If the job isn't finished on time then the contractor doing the work is penalised daily and or is dismissed.So if you think we just stand around and wait for a check at the end of the week thinking we wont be fired for not getting the job done in the agreed time frame for the agreed amount of money you are sadly mistaken. We have budgets and a schedule to keep with. We often try to get the job done ahead of time for nothing more than bragging right between crews plus it makes the guy who signs our paychecks very happy.
I know stdreb you still think we are only talking about non-skilled labor,but im seeing it different from the posts here.
http:///forum/post/2879379
Clearly this guy won't change his mind till he opens his own union labor company and they go on strike. And the union guys are making more money than him...
I would certainly pay my skilled labor more or as much as a pencil pusher or bean counter whose only concern is $.The carpenter superintendent ,foreman,and lead carpenter know what has to get done and when it has to be done by.The guys that do the work are given a schedule to meet.Its not a open ended time frame or money generator.If the job isn't finished on time then the contractor doing the work is penalised daily and or is dismissed.So if you think we just stand around and wait for a check at the end of the week thinking we wont be fired for not getting the job done in the agreed time frame for the agreed amount of money you are sadly mistaken. We have budgets and a schedule to keep with. We often try to get the job done ahead of time for nothing more than bragging right between crews plus it makes the guy who signs our paychecks very happy.
I know stdreb you still think we are only talking about non-skilled labor,but im seeing it different from the posts here.
veni vidi vici
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2879446
See, you are proving my point on unions. It is a simple question. How much would you be willing to pay someone to mow your lawn. Straight and simple. You have done the work, so you know what it entails. If Union guys make everything this complicated no wonder the big 3 are having money problems. It is a simple question yet you can not give a simple answer. Fine I will make it easier.
1/4 acre lawn.Bermuda grass, cut to a one inch length, Flat (no slope or grade) about 20 square feet of area that would need edged and trimmed as well. No trees or bushes. How much per hour?
I don't know the answer to that question .I belong to the UBC not the Grass Clippers Union.If you are Just talking UAW i don't know what the situation is there.If we are talking Unions in general im just here to defend mine and the purpose behind it"Unions".
I really understand everyone frustration with the economy as i am too,but i think the blame is unfairly being put entirely on unions and that is not correct.However i do believe that the state of our economy deserves some concessions from all parties involved in this mess.
And Darth i wouldnt have someone do fro me what i can do formyself.That would be like me paying a carpenter to come do some carpentry work for me.
veni vidi vici
Active Member
Originally Posted by EGILL
http:///forum/post/2879397
I'm a member of the UFCW and they are a joke. They have no backbone anymore. They had their time back in the 70's-80's (from what I hear by the older members) but are worthless now. Only time we see a rep is when a member gets fired for stealing or not doing thier job and the union gets said worker their job back on technicaties(usually paperwork that wasn't filled). I'm a meat manager...highest paid hourly employee in the store and the union reps make twice what I do. Sad...very sad.
If you don't like it you are allowed to resign and seek employment elsewhere.If the union is treating you unfair then go work in a non -union shop.Its your prerogative.
http:///forum/post/2879397
I'm a member of the UFCW and they are a joke. They have no backbone anymore. They had their time back in the 70's-80's (from what I hear by the older members) but are worthless now. Only time we see a rep is when a member gets fired for stealing or not doing thier job and the union gets said worker their job back on technicaties(usually paperwork that wasn't filled). I'm a meat manager...highest paid hourly employee in the store and the union reps make twice what I do. Sad...very sad.
If you don't like it you are allowed to resign and seek employment elsewhere.If the union is treating you unfair then go work in a non -union shop.Its your prerogative.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2879463
I don't know the answer to that question .I belong to the UBC not the Grass Clippers Union.If you are Just talking UAW i don't know what the situation is there.If we are talking Unions in general im just here to defend mine and the purpose behind it"Unions".
I really understand everyone frustration with the economy as i am too,but i think the blame is unfairly being put entirely on unions and that is not correct.However i do believe that the state of our economy deserves some concessions from all parties involved in this mess.
So to continue dodging the question, you will continue acting as if you are to incompetant to figure out a wage (that is fair) for something as simple as mowing a lawn. How do you buy a TV. You aren't an electronics salesman nor manufacturer, so you must not be qualified or know enough about their union to know if they are charging a good price for their product. Give me a break.
Like I said unions do some good. BUT you are not helping those against unions see the benefits if a you can not answer a simple question, such as what is a good wage to mow lawns. Just look at the time lost in this negotiation in this thread. You asked for specs, I gave them, Then you say you aren't qualified to answer for the grass clippers union. I was not asking anything about the grass clippers union. I was asking what YOU felt was a fair wage to mow lawns. Yet you can't answer this simple question. Asking for a personal opinion, that is all.
veni vidi vici
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2879478
So to continue dodging the question, you will continue acting as if you are to incompetant to figure out a wage (that is fair) for something as simple as mowing a lawn. How do you buy a TV. You aren't an electronics salesman nor manufacturer, so you must not be qualified or know enough about their union to know if they are charging a good price for their product. Give me a break.
Ok then let me try and answer your question for you then.As to the(Grass Clipping Union?) We would have to find out the Prevailing wage as set forth by the Government and since as far as i know there is no (GCU) i couldn't give you that answer without doing some research which i am not going to do.
I don't think many electronic components built it the USA that are TVs.I think Asia has that covered.But if they are built here and are built in a union shop the workers don't set the price of the product,and since there is a good possibility that there are also NON-union shops building the same TVs i would guess that the non -union TVs are way over priced, that is if they are making less than the union workers. I would think that if its non union and getting built cheaper it should cost less?NO?
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2879478
Like I said unions do some good. BUT you are not helping those against unions see the benefits if a you can not answer a simple question, such as what is a good wage to mow lawns. Just look at the time lost in this negotiation in this thread. You asked for specs, I gave them, Then you say you aren't qualified to answer for the grass clippers union. I was not asking anything about the grass clippers union. I was asking what YOU felt was a fair wage to mow lawns. Yet you can't answer this simple question. Asking for a personal opinion, that is all.
I have never cut lawn for a living nor have i ever paid someone to cut my lawn so i cant give you a estimate.If your asking me what pay i think is fair come over with your lawn mower and ill make you and offer,we can negotiate after that.
http:///forum/post/2879478
So to continue dodging the question, you will continue acting as if you are to incompetant to figure out a wage (that is fair) for something as simple as mowing a lawn. How do you buy a TV. You aren't an electronics salesman nor manufacturer, so you must not be qualified or know enough about their union to know if they are charging a good price for their product. Give me a break.
Ok then let me try and answer your question for you then.As to the(Grass Clipping Union?) We would have to find out the Prevailing wage as set forth by the Government and since as far as i know there is no (GCU) i couldn't give you that answer without doing some research which i am not going to do.
I don't think many electronic components built it the USA that are TVs.I think Asia has that covered.But if they are built here and are built in a union shop the workers don't set the price of the product,and since there is a good possibility that there are also NON-union shops building the same TVs i would guess that the non -union TVs are way over priced, that is if they are making less than the union workers. I would think that if its non union and getting built cheaper it should cost less?NO?
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2879478
Like I said unions do some good. BUT you are not helping those against unions see the benefits if a you can not answer a simple question, such as what is a good wage to mow lawns. Just look at the time lost in this negotiation in this thread. You asked for specs, I gave them, Then you say you aren't qualified to answer for the grass clippers union. I was not asking anything about the grass clippers union. I was asking what YOU felt was a fair wage to mow lawns. Yet you can't answer this simple question. Asking for a personal opinion, that is all.
I have never cut lawn for a living nor have i ever paid someone to cut my lawn so i cant give you a estimate.If your asking me what pay i think is fair come over with your lawn mower and ill make you and offer,we can negotiate after that.