water change

oregonbud

oregonbud

Member
:rolleyes:
Round 435 - Beaslebob vs. Widely Accepted Practice
(Deep announcer voice improvised since we can't obviously hear it)
Sunday Sunday Sunday witness the coral crushing power of macro algea going insanely sexual. Watch as it chokes the life out of its tankmates. And as a special treat, for the first 100 ticket holders, we are giving a copy of the Conscientious Marine Aquarist.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
well then simply don't use macros :D Seems like I have been emphasizing plant life. You could just as well use turtle grass, slower growing macros like money plants, or shaving brushes. Yea Yea they are not as fast growing therefore do less filtering. So first set up the plant life and then do the rest. Meanwhile a refugium is an option. Finally, sure macros grow fast in the initial high nitrate environment. But the growth rate slows to almost nothing when nitrates are down to almost 0.0. They go sexual well daaa then use other types. As I stated plant life. That also includes corraling algaes.
Any reef tank is better with plant life then without. Just as it is in the ocean.
BTW The only problem I have had with macros in my display was growing fast enouth. Seems the livestock likes to eat them.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member

Originally posted by overanalyzer
I agree .... especially when for proof he points out that most homes no longer have copper points and when it is pointed out he is wrong all he says is "so?"
The fact a single house has a copper pipe in it does not prove or disprove that most homes have pvc pipes. therefore so
:D
 
reefnut

reefnut

Active Member

Originally posted by beaslbob
The fact a single house has a copper pipe in it does not prove or disprove that most homes have pvc pipes. therefore so
Where does your information come from. We have talk about this in the past and from what I recall you didn't know this to be fact. Houses are still being built with copper piping and to say "most" have PVC is a FALSE statement.
 
overanalyzer

overanalyzer

Active Member

Originally posted by beaslbob
The fact a single house has a copper pipe in it does not prove or disprove that most homes have pvc pipes. therefore so
:D
Entire sub divisions going in around me .... all with copper pipes ....
Also did I catch a phrase about you dumping in a 1/2 cup of salt in to your tank without letting it mix? just curious - that is harsh on corals - you might want to mix it a bit first then put it into your refugium. easier on your tank inhabitants ....
 
overanalyzer

overanalyzer

Active Member

Originally posted by beaslbob
well then simply don't use macros :D Seems like I have been emphasizing plant life. You could just as well use turtle grass, slower growing macros like money plants, or shaving brushes. . As I stated plant life. That also includes corraling algaes.
Any reef tank is better with plant life then without. Just as it is in the ocean.
BTW The only problem I have had with macros in my display was growing fast enouth. Seems the livestock likes to eat them.
1.) Wow - you are starting to qualify your answers and provide some specifics ....I agree -turtle, mantee other ocean grasses would be plant life. Nice of you to finally provide some specifics.
2.)Corraling algeas?? Do they have little seahorses and use little tiny lariats?? Sorry couldn't resist .... :D :D :D :D :D
3.)The only problem you see is they don't grow and spread fast enough?? Do you realize a lot of macros send out their root systems horizontally before vertically?? Like a lot of other nuisance plants on land ... and please tell me I made the font big enough for you to read last time.....
OK now that we have you qualifying your "plant life" lets start working on your first water change ... I know you can do it ... a trip to the hyvee or piggly wiggly or local grocery store, a five gallon jug fuill of ro or ro/di water ... a small powerhead and some salt ... c'mon bob -you know you want to .... c'mon bob ... just one little water change ...
 
sammystingray

sammystingray

Active Member
:eek:.....the wrong stuff will choke out and kill any and all sea life. I don't understand why you can't give a SIMPLE warning when you post about using macros in a main tank to newbies. People get tired of following you around and having to warn people for you. Is it that big a deal????:rolleyes: Do you realize that if you presented your thoughts, the exact same thoughts you present now, in just a slightly different way....nobody would care. It would then just be your opinion, but you do not take anyone elses tank into consideration....once established, folks need to realize the stuff basically can NOT be removed. If they decide it is causing problems....they may lose hundreds or even a couple grand worth of liverock etc to start over.
for those who don't know.....this pic is of a once full of life ocean floor....everything is dead now because some aquarium algae got into the sea. The ocean has no nitrate or phosphate troubles, so Bobs thinking is off again.....you don't have to have a polluted tank for the stuff to take over. Experts still have absolutely NO idea how to stop this algae from spreading further and further......it is a MAJOR problem going on as we speak.....Main tank macros are fine as an opinion, but the lack of any warning to those who don't know.............it's just absolutely irresponsible.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member

Originally posted by ReefNut
Where does your information come from. We have talk about this in the past and from what I recall you didn't know this to be fact. Houses are still being built with copper piping and to say "most" have PVC is a FALSE statement.
My house is typical of my subdivsion and all plumbing is pvc. When searching for a house here, all new construction without exception had pvc pipes. Additionally, Lowes and Home Depot have lots and lots of pvc pipe and little to none copper pipe. Your observation the houses are still being built with copper piping does not mean that most houses are being built with copper pipes. My observations do mean that all houses I observed are being built with pvc pipes. Do you have any facts an this matter?
Besides so what? PVC or copper pipes still allow tap water to be used in all aquariums. Plant life still filters out the copper either way. When a house has pvc then the plants probably have a little less copper to filter out. Using cold water and running the water for a minute before collecting reduces the copper further. Therefore, further reducing the copper the plant life has to filter out. But even with copper pipes, using hot water, and no pre running, the plants still filter out the copper.
 
overanalyzer

overanalyzer

Active Member
Bob - plants don't filter out copper - they absorb it. RO and RO/DI filters filter it out ....
not much of a difference?? Well if your plants go sexual the copper they absorb can be released (in concentration) back into the tank.
c'mon Bob - admit it - you are wanting to do a water change ... you know you are ... just a small one .. a nice little five gallon water change on the 55 wouldn't hurt. $1.50 for 5 gallons of filtered water ... some salt ... powerhead or air pump .... c'mon - long weekend - you can sit around watch some football and do a small water change ....
 
broomer5

broomer5

Active Member
I was under the impression that copper is often used as a plant herbicide.
bob would you please explain how a macro algae or marine plant "filters out" copper ?
How much copper can a kilogram or pound of algae remove ?
ppm ?
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by overanalyzer
1.) Wow - you are starting to qualify your answers and provide some specifics ....I agree -turtle, mantee other ocean grasses would be plant life. Nice of you to finally provide some specifics.
I am glad you agree that plant life does these things.
2.)Corraling algeas?? Do they have little seahorses and use little tiny lariats?? Sorry couldn't resist .... :D :D :D :D :D
Or corraling the macros :D spelling not a strong piont with me
3.)The only problem you see is they don't grow and spread fast enough?? Do you realize a lot of macros send out their root systems horizontally before vertically?? Like a lot of other nuisance plants on land ... and please tell me I made the font big enough for you to read last time.....
Daaa really :rolleyes: My livestock was eating them faster than they could grow. Hmmmmm kinda like the natural balanced aquarium I mentioned earlier.
OK now that we have you qualifying your "plant life" lets start working on your first water change ... I know you can do it ... a trip to the hyvee or piggly wiggly or local grocery store, a five gallon jug fuill of ro or ro/di water ... a small powerhead and some salt ... c'mon bob -you know you want to .... c'mon bob ... just one little water change ...
For the reasons I have stated many times before, never. For instance nitrates will never come down to 0.0 by waterchanges alone even with 0.0 nitrates in the input water. Weekly draining of water and adding new will never allow the system to reach an equilibrium. more posts on this board have reported tank crashes and lost livestock after a water change then crashes from not doing water changes. I don't intend to degrade my system with water changes and ro/di water.
Finally on your other posts, yes invasive aquarium macros have changed the wild environment. That said I would be proud of having a saltwater pond looking like the above pictures in my front yard. Also plant life is an vital part of all coral reefs.
If we want to insure the marine and freshwater environment is never disrupted by home aquariums, the only totally effective method is to get rid of all home aquariums. That way live rock will not be harvested. The yellow tangs in hawaii can stay in hawaii as can all other collected fw and marine fish and corals. Or we can try to manage it so both home aquariums and the reefs survive. So if your concerns on macros are valid then also warn the newbies of the problems with live rock, live sand, the dangers of water changes, skimmers, heaters, lights, sumps, pumps, filters, refugiums and so on.
All you are doing by not emphasizing plant life is creating aquariums which are constantly having to be maintained, are never balanced and stable, and are much less complete ecosystems.
 
reefnut

reefnut

Active Member

Originally posted by beaslbob
My house is typical of my subdivsion and all plumbing is pvc. When searching for a house here, all new construction without exception had pvc pipes. Additionally, Lowes and Home Depot have lots and lots of pvc pipe and little to none copper pipe. Your observation the houses are still being built with copper piping does not mean that most houses are being built with copper pipes. My observations do mean that all houses I observed are being built with pvc pipes. Do you have any facts an this matter?

This is the information age Bob, I can find out what pipes the houses in your area are using;). and I might just to prove you wrong AGAIN.
 
overanalyzer

overanalyzer

Active Member

Originally posted by beaslbob
I am glad you agree that plant life does these things.

OK I'll seperate this out so it is easier for you to read Bobo
I don't agree with you that they are the wunderkind of hte aquarium world. I said it was nice you were qualifying and that some of those mentioned would make nice additions to a tank ... notice - not a nice addition to every single tank out there .....
let me know if this is clear enough for you??
 
overanalyzer

overanalyzer

Active Member

Originally posted by beaslbob
Or corraling the macros :D spelling not a strong piont with me

Me neither - but it was funny to me last night ... :D
 
overanalyzer

overanalyzer

Active Member
3.)The only problem you see is they don't grow and spread fast enough?? Do you realize a lot of macros send out their root systems horizontally before vertically?? Like a lot of other nuisance plants on land ... and please tell me I made the font big enough for you to read last time.....

[hr]
Daaa really My livestock was eating them faster than they could grow. Hmmmmm kinda like the natural balanced aquarium I mentioned earlier.
BOB - the roots spread out of site and reach of your critters .... so unles they are digging into your substrate and breaking open your porous rocks then the oots are spreading in and through the rocks (of course with flat limestone this may not be as big a deal for you and your tank). I know you have algea on the bed level - those roots and spores are spreading through your tank.
that is why I said the grow horizontally ..... hidden .... out of sight ....
 
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