whats wrong w/ america?!

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by reefreak29
...itsnot what my great great grandfather did to african americans its what african americans did to themselves.
This is one of the most ignorant comment's I've read. While people may not feel any responsibility for their ancestors being slave owners (and maybe they shouldn't), but please do not deny that the slave owners were committing an atrocity... victimizing, raping and killing black people who were considered property to them.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by seasalt101
well let's start off in sports majority black, new entertainers over the last 20 year's about 75% black (rap, hip hop) let's see will smith not given the same opportunities hmmm samuel l jackson denzel washington, forrest whitaker, morgan freeman, all these people are freakin rich and given plenty of opportunity, and they(the black race) have benefitted the most from slavery by being in this country now we can't change the past, but we can drop the race card that is long overdue, and white women being the biggest benefactors well maybe, just maybe they applied themselves more, and the comment about the rainbow tribes was a label that cnn applied not jennyhebugg and her point was to adopt americans first not the rest of the world...tobin
I'm not playing the race card, just stating facts of recent history. Take a look at all your comments... First, white women are the biggest benefators because of population. Women in general have not had rights and opportunity until more recently. Men thought they were only capable of being housewives, and when it came to establishing their place in the workplace, measures such as affirmative action was/is used to give them access and opportunity.
Next, you mention actors of our day, and they are all great, But why is it that only one has an oscar for Best Actor. Wait, I thing Whittaker got one this year..that makes 3 in all of history with the last 2 being within the last 5-6 years...Black actors in film have been portrayed only in certain roles that depected them in lower roles, often poor, crimminals, servants/maids and so on. Yes this has changed recently and there is more opportunity, but ask someone who is 40 years or older how film and television has changed.
And blacks have not benefited the most from slavery, do your history about the companies that have made billions off the backs of slaves such as the tobacco industry and other fortune 500 companies that have ties to slavery. If you'll do a little research you'll find that many of the companies that were started in the 17-1800's were successful because of their role in slavery. And many people that come from "old money" their ancestors were invloved in slavery.
You guys should stop making comments about how you feel about things or have heard, and do your own research, but I'd assume you won't because you have no intrest in learing about these topics

 

[seasalt101]

i'm 42...tobin

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by seasalt101
i'm 42...tobin
That tells me that age is not a factor in your comments. I guess I'd assume that you don't see this or care to see it because you choose not to. I guess I understand why its so easy for you to have a blind eye.
Peope identify themselves as italian,jewish, greek,..kiss me I'm irish...all the time. The reason why we do this is because we like knowing our roots and where we came from. Many do this to remember their culture and customs. Yes, we are americans, but aren't we more than just that? We all have a history that is much older than America and some people choose to forget it, and other embrace it. I'd recommend people learn about differnt cultures and ethnicities, you'll find we have much more in common than you might think.
Your right about Europe though, they don't have the problems with race as much as we do, however racism is still a factor all over the world.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
I'm not playing the race card, just stating facts of recent history. Take a look at all your comments... First, white women are the biggest benefators because of population. Women in general have not had rights and opportunity until more recently. Men thought they were only capable of being housewives, and when it came to establishing their place in the workplace, measures such as affirmative action was/is used to give them access and opportunity.
Next, you mention actors of our day, and they are all great, But why is it that only one has an oscar for Best Actor. Wait, I thing Whittaker got one this year..that makes 3 in all of history with the last 2 being within the last 5-6 years...Black actors in film have been portrayed only in certain roles that depected them in lower roles, often poor, crimminals, servants/maids and so on. Yes this has changed recently and there is more opportunity, but ask someone who is 40 years or older how film and television has changed.
And blacks have not benefited the most from slavery, do your history about the companies that have made billions off the backs of slaves such as the tobacco industry and other fortune 500 companies that have ties to slavery. If you'll do a little research you'll find that many of the companies that were started in the 17-1800's were successful because of their role in slavery. And many people that come from "old money" their ancestors were invloved in slavery.
You guys should stop making comments about how you feel about things or have heard, and do your own research, but I'd assume you won't because you have no intrest in learing about these topics

I grew up in the 1980s and know full well that they played black videos.
you say, "why have only 3 black actors won oscars?". instead of saying that, why don't you suggest which black actors should have won oscars and what year it was?
white women benefit more from affirmative action because they make up roughly 40% of the US population as opposed to 15% blacks, so what's your point?
you make a bunch of statements and have no evidence or statistics to back it up and use racist statements such as "white America".
slavery was a bad thing, but slavery was not limited to the US and is in fact still used in many countries throughout the world, so get over the suffering that you've never personally endured.

 

[reefreak29]

sorry its a well known fact that an african tribe sold other tribes out for slavery , u need to educate yourselves

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by reefreak29
sorry its a well known fact that an african tribe sold other tribes out for slavery , u need to educate yourselves
I think I acknowledged that. re-read my posts. I guess I'll ask you this... did this give the europeans a pass to treat africans how they saw fit? If I am interpreting you correctly this statement made it okay to have slaves ...is this right?

 

[windmill]

American Idol.
And for the love of god will someone just close this thread?

 

[bigarn]

Originally Posted by windmill
American Idol.
And for the love of god will someone just close this thread?
Agree and agreed!

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Pontius
I grew up in the 1980s and know full well that they played black videos.
you say, "why have only 3 black actors won oscars?". instead of saying that, why don't you suggest which black actors should have won oscars and what year it was?
white women benefit more from affirmative action because they make up roughly 40% of the US population as opposed to 15% blacks, so what's your point?
you make a bunch of statements and have no evidence or statistics to back it up and use racist statements such as "white America".
slavery was a bad thing, but slavery was not limited to the US and is in fact still used in many countries throughout the world, so get over the suffering that you've never personally endured.
I could take the time to do what you are asking, but I do not have the time to try to educate you right now, Of the top of my head Denzel won for training day, sidney poitier won for Lillies of the Field, and I think Whittaker just won for The last Scottish king or whatever that movie was- can't remember- not sure.
My comments were made about affirmative action because you assume that blacks are getting a free pass and are hired but can't perform the same job just as well. You think that blacks are the only ones that benefit from it- and this is not true as you affirmed...Thanks My responses are from topics you brought up and I think I've done a better job explaining my viewpoints than you have.
Some of the stuff that was written about welfare.... you guys are calling me racist... can't beleive it.. "white america" is not a racist statement...neither is "black america" or "hispanic america" and so forth... I have no problem with using any of these terms. Why is it that you think these are racist? They are used to describe what america is to different groups of people and what their experiences are here in america.
It kills me when people say slavery has no aspect on life today. And that black people just get over it like it never happened. I never said I was suffering either, but for you to think that what happened from 1500-1960's is no longer relevant is completely ignorant and nieve. I'd agree with you to a certain point about moving on, but to say I never endured aspects and racists mentalities that arose from this era is false.
No need to close- I'm not offended yet...MTV did play black music in the 80's- I said that with Michael Jackson being the first. 1st rap was Run DMC in 84 or 85... I gave you the reason why BET was established... do your history

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by windmill
American Idol.
And for the love of god will someone just close this thread?

OH MAN! Why was it I was just about to post the exact same "American Idol" thing! BTW, I've watched AI, though won't now because the best singer is gone. In some ways it is great, in others...not.
I think that people need things to feel bad about. This is a country where people can be poor, but have a TV, car, cell phone, and be overweight....but let's complain. I think what is wrong in America is that people have no idea anymore how good they have it.
We are sitting here, on computers, on a aquarium hobby site (not a cheap one), freely debating differing political views, often speaking against the government, talking about all manner of other hobbies, pure frivolity like AI or sports or what

[hr]

[hr]
did...maybe a mention of the wars, or terrorism but mostly we've forgotten it... lets face it, life isn't particularly bad. Not moreso now than it has been in the past, IMO. I think someday we will be forced to experience true hardship as a general society, like our parents and grandparents.
So far I think things have been relatively respectful, though heated....for now I will leave it open.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by windmill
American Idol.
And for the love of god will someone just close this thread?

If you don't like the thread you don't have to read it or participate. I love people that complain about something that they had a choice to view on their own. That is like going to the movies...complaining the movie is bad and then going to go see it again.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
I think I acknowledged that. re-read my posts. I guess I'll ask you this... did this give the europeans a pass to treat africans how they saw fit? If I am interpreting you correctly this statement made it okay to have slaves ...is this right?

No he is not trying to say it was OK. I believ the point is "whitey" gets a lot of blame for this in the U.S., however the entire blame is not on the U.S. but on the motherland in Africa as well....That is the point...either way it is wrong.

 

[seasalt101]

and my original point was to quit playing the guilty race card, and contribute to society as opposed to being on welfare and or being a thug...tobin

 

[ophiura]

Much of the discussion is, dare I say, somewhat of a moot point.
It is very easy for us to look back on the practice very critically. To use our modern day morals and conventions and condemn those in history. But what is the point? What does it accomplish? What does any revisionist history accomplish? NOTHING. Yes, to us it is appalling and wrong. It is something we don't like to think about. But at the time, it was the norm, and that is the end of it.
All we can do is learn from it for the future.
Slavery is occurring in parts of the world TODAY. RIGHT NOW. What are you doing NOW. Sitting here comparing BET and MTV and who has won an award for a movie?
Are we seriously using this as our evidence of what is wrong?
Again, Americans have, IMO, lost touch with what is really a problem.
JMO, but we are scraping the bottom of the barrel for things to complain about and finding whatever we can to claim we are offended. Complaining that we don't have enough TV shows with black actors? TV shows??????????
There is real racism in this country, it goes both ways. We will never agree on some things but we have to start coming together to discuss real issues facing us as Americans. But only when we as individuals take charge and responsibility for our own future will that happen. It is, in many ways, easier to be "oppressed"...tempting and natural in ways to subject yourself to it because it is easier than hard work and long years and uncertainty. There are so called leaders who want you there too, because they benefit from standing on your back. People put misplaced faith in them.
JMO though.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
I could take the time to do what you are asking, but I do not have the time to try to educate you right now, Of the top of my head Denzel won for training day, sidney poitier won for Lillies of the Field, and I think Whittaker just won for The last Scottish king or whatever that movie was- can't remember- not sure.
My comments were made about affirmative action because you assume that blacks are getting a free pass and are hired but can't perform the same job just as well. You think that blacks are the only ones that benefit from it- and this is not true as you affirmed...Thanks My responses are from topics you brought up and I think I've done a better job explaining my viewpoints than you have.
Some of the stuff that was written about welfare.... you guys are calling me racist... can't beleive it.. "white america" is not a racist statement...neither is "black america" or "hispanic america" and so forth... I have no problem with using any of these terms. Why is it that you think these are racist? They are used to describe what america is to different groups of people and what their experiences are here in america.
It kills me when people say slavery has no aspect on life today. And that black people just get over it like it never happened. I never said I was suffering either, but for you to think that what happened from 1500-1960's is no longer relevant is completely ignorant and nieve. I'd agree with you to a certain point about moving on, but to say I never endured aspects and racists mentalities that arose from this era is false.
No need to close- I'm not offended yet...MTV did play black music in the 80's- I said that with Michael Jackson being the first. 1st rap was Run DMC in 84 or 85... I gave you the reason why BET was established... do your history
no need to educate me, I'm the educated one in the debate. as for other black oscar winners that you missed......Jamie Fox for best lead actor in "Ray", Halle Berry for best lead actress in "Monster's Ball", and Morgan Freeman for best supporting actor in "Shawshank Redemption". I have seen all the films in question, unlike you. Forrest Whittaker should not have won for "Last King of Scotland" which was a very mediocre and fictitious movie. though Whittaker is a good actor, the oscar should have gone to the lead actor in "Apocalypto". now, who in your opinion are the black actors that should have won oscars but didn't?
you say you made the comments on affirmative action because of comments I made?? hmmm, I didn't say anything whatsoever about affirmative action until you brought it up. so you're now attributing comments to me that I didn't even make. nice.
all these terms, "white America" "black America" "Hispanic America", etc etc are all racist terms because they take on the ideology that there is a different America for different American citizens and you can't provide anything to back that up. 40 years ago, you could, but not now.
one more thing....I work in a job where I deal with all different kinds of people. different races, different ages, people from different economic standings, etc. I have never once heard a black person in their 60s or older complain about how hard they had it growing up. and these are the people alive who actually experienced real racism. the only people I ever hear complaining about racism are the people in your age group, because it's your crutch to blame your problems on somebody else. if you feel excluded, it's most likely your fault more than anybody else's.

 

[seasalt101]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Much of the discussion is, dare I say, somewhat of a moot point.
It is very easy for us to look back on the practice very critically. To use our modern day morals and conventions and condemn those in history. But what is the point? What does it accomplish? What does any revisionist history accomplish? NOTHING. Yes, to us it is appalling and wrong. It is something we don't like to think about. But at the time, it was the norm, and that is the end of it.
All we can do is learn from it for the future.
Slavery is occurring in parts of the world TODAY. RIGHT NOW. What are you doing NOW. Sitting here comparing BET and MTV and who has won an award for a movie?
Are we seriously using this as our evidence of what is wrong?
Again, Americans have, IMO, lost touch with what is really a problem.
JMO, but we are scraping the bottom of the barrel for things to complain about and finding whatever we can to claim we are offended. Complaining that we don't have enough TV shows with black actors? TV shows??????????
There is real racism in this country, it goes both ways. We will never agree on some things but we have to start coming together to discuss real issues facing us as Americans. But only when we as individuals take charge and responsibility for our own future will that happen. It is, in many ways, easier to be "oppressed"...tempting and natural in ways to subject yourself to it because it is easier than hard work and long years and uncertainty. There are so called leaders who want you there too, because they benefit from standing on your back. People put misplaced faith in them.
JMO though.
totally agreed, we in america take so much for granted, while others in the world are persecuted for trivial issues by american standards ie: richard gere kisses an indian actress and that is on the smaller scale of persecution, they still execute people all over if every poster to this thread said this say in china we would probably all get shot at sun-up(if we were chinese posting what is wrong with china)

 

[seasalt101]

the jewish people have been slaves throughout their history, and were even close to being exterminated but they as a whole contribute very positively, because they are taught to excel at anything, and eveything they do, and they do not complain, or have a help the chosen scholarship, or a television network, and there is anti-semitism still, and they are the butt of alot of jokes but they do not complain they just go about there business...tobin

 

[reefreak29]

alot of races have been slaves im not saying its right that would be pethetic, im just saying that the african americans seem to have a much larger chip on there shoulders and they continue to blame whites for this today. im sick of it and ophiura rite theres much bigger issues to address but u will never be able to get everyone to get along to address these issues

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Pontius
no need to educate me, I'm the educated one in the debate. as for other black oscar winners that you missed......Jamie Fox for best lead actor in "Ray", Halle Berry for best lead actress in "Monster's Ball", and Morgan Freeman for best supporting actor in "Shawshank Redemption". I have seen all the films in question, unlike you. Forrest Whittaker should not have won for "Last King of Scotland" which was a very mediocre and fictitious movie. though Whittaker is a good actor, the oscar should have gone to the lead actor in "Apocalypto". now, who in your opinion are the black actors that should have won oscars but didn't?
I knew I forgot somebody, just a slip of the mind.... and yes I could of mentioned Halle Berry... and for Morgan Freeman.. I wasn't including supporting actors.. which is the role we are most subject to. I really don't have time to go into others at this time... because it what take a little research of past winners and years of films. I've seen the films except for the Last King...that a new one...give me a break...