whats wrong w/ america?!

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
...When did I call someone handicapped? How have I degraded anyone here? Please post what I said, i am simply defending remarks made by others here. ...
I added "handicapped". From your "Southern mentality" post I thought it was fitting.
Ryan, I did read the entire thread. That's why I just joined in. Frankly your "Southern mentaility" comment set my teeth to grating. When you refer to "white" America, Southern Mentality, etc. I recoil. To me those comments are offensive. I lived in South Texas while attending college. I was a minority there. I never referred to Corpus Christi as "Brown" or "White" America. It's Texas, South Texas. It's America.
Am I proud to be Texan? Yup. Is that in the South? Yup. Are southerners more racist than anywhere else? Nope. (before you argue that point let me remind you racism exists in many directions other than white>Black) As Ophiura points out, however, there certainly does still exist segregation. That, however, to a large extent is due to all sides. Let's not forget the current Mayor (who happens to be Black) of New Orleans and his remarks about race. The sword of racism cuts both ways.
My ancestors fled to this country to escape religious persecution. Other folks ancestors were brought here as slaves and indentured servants, fled here due to war, famine etc. The point is, we're all here. I hate that my ancestors were hunted and killed (early Baptist history) by being thrown into rivers tied to rocks or burned at the stake. I do not, however hold a grudge against the European countries where this occurred. Because of their sacrifice I was born in the greatest country the world has ever seen. Why can't more people see that? Would folks decrying racism today be better off being born in Africa? Of course not. Just like I wouldn't be better off today had I been born somewhere in Europe.
As I said (as well as other posters), we have bigger issues to address. Society is going to be stuck in this same rut forever unless we all can move past racism. Especially racism that occurred 200 years ago.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
You said 100 million died in the slave trade from Africa to America. So my numbers are correct. If you want to try to include slave trade all over the world then obviously the numbers will be higher as slaving is still going on today.
my last comment of the day.... why do you think this still occurs and who are the benefactors of this and what product or use are slaves being used for today?
The 100 million # is directed for the transatlantic trade from 1441-1870,

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
.... Do your research if you want and proove me wrong...but use some other sources besides your own calculations....
Ryan, I'm using your numbers.... I never used my own for anything. The only numbers I used were the dates of Jamestown's founding, 1860, and your number of 100 million. Then I used 365 (days).
I did say no captain would make a trip for 1-2 survivors...
As for continental numbers; The US census bureau estimates, WORLDWIDE that there were under 700 million people alive in 1700. So, again, the notion that you could find 300-400 million people in Africa to enslave is crazy.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
my last comment of the day.... why do you think this still occurs and who are the benefactors of this and what product or use are slaves being used for today? ...
I think it still occurs today because people are inherintly evil and therefore it is human nature to take advantage of those less fortunate. The benefcators (today, where slavery still occurs) are fellow countrymen. (Thailand, India, Sudan, etc.)
They are being used for agricultural and menial labor, ---, etc.

 

[rylan1]

I had to say something else... Sorry if I offended you; however my remarks as you have commented on them are taken out of context and are not racial. The fact that you took them that way is another story. I never said white america was good or bad or anything of the sorts. People of the minority label "white america" as main stream america. In the context it was used it was used to describe a time in history when the mainstream did not want to include blacks into all aspects of society and were exluded from things even though the law said you couldn't. This is and was not a blast on you or white people. You are reading far more into these comments then there is...there are different issues in the black community that we deal with that you do not for the most part... these can be described as saying What is the state of Black America.... its not racist... Me using the term a southern mentality is not racist either... its a term that describes a way of thinking that encourages white supremacy and a mindset that is similar to segregationalists and slavery advocates. This term in no way is corelated with being southern or even that you are proud to be a texan, floridian,carolinan, or whatever. So I am sorry if you took offense, but this statement is not used to blanket all people south of the mason dixson. It is a term for someone who has a racist attitude.
And you are right their are just as many racists in Ohio as any where else probably.
I read here before some people said black shouldn't have been upset with what Imus said and you are upset over the term white america... when you read that what did it make you think I was implying??
Lastly I appreciate that this thread is still open...people say this is a dead issue but it is important that we talk about it because though some people are past it, many on both sides aren't and won't be till they come to some common ground of respect and acceptance.
I know there are gray lines and everyone does not fit in a category. I am proud to be an american also, this is a very debatable statement but i'll make it...maybe God had a reason for why we are all here... we all have been persucuted, refuges,abused....any maybe God had a reason although we have had to experience horrible things we do live in the greatest country...is there a correlation... is this a plan of God...we are so diverse here...

 

[1journeyman]

Seems like we just have a fundamental difference of opinion Ryan. I believe the adjectives "white" and "black" are inherently racist. As for "southern mentality", the way you are using it seems racist to me.

When I say "southern" I refer to things like going to church, the family all sitting down for dinner 7 days a week, opening the door for a lady, etc. When you equate "southern mentality" to white supremacy I don't see how you do not consider that racist.
Imus is an idiot and I couldn't care less about his career. I do think it was interesting that his comments were never completely quoted. His insults towards a predominantly black team were reported, but his comparision of the other team (also predominantly black) as "cute girls" went largely unreported. The media, in this case and many others, feeds the racism conflict.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Seems like we just have a fundamental difference of opinion Ryan. I believe the adjectives "white" and "black" are inherently racist. As for "southern mentality", the way you are using it seems racist to me.

When I say "southern" I refer to things like going to church, the family all sitting down for dinner 7 days a week, opening the door for a lady, etc. When you equate "southern mentality" to white supremacy I don't see how you do not consider that racist.
Imus is an idiot and I couldn't care less about his career. I do think it was interesting that his comments were never completely quoted. His insults towards a predominantly black team were reported, but his comparision of the other team (also predominantly black) as "cute girls" went largely unreported. The media, in this case and many others, feeds the racism conflict.
Not even going to talk about imus-- is a dead issue now.
I agree when you say southernly gentleman or southern belle, and southern in general we do equate to the things you mentioned... wholesome, good values, courteous, etc... these are 2 seperate things... don't confuse the two. white and black are inherently racists is true... because white synbolizes good, pure, and black as evil or dark...however these are terms that are used today that have been accepted by all. The whole southern mentality thing again is not a blast on what you consider (we all consider) southern values and manners. Is there a better way to describe these things that gives an equal amount of distinction?

 

[nigerbang]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Seems like we just have a fundamental difference of opinion Ryan. I believe the adjectives "white" and "black" are inherently racist. As for "southern mentality", the way you are using it seems racist to me.

When I say "southern" I refer to things like going to church, the family all sitting down for dinner 7 days a week, opening the door for a lady, etc. When you equate "southern mentality" to white supremacy I don't see how you do not consider that racist.
Imus is an idiot and I couldn't care less about his career. I do think it was interesting that his comments were never completely quoted. His insults towards a predominantly black team were reported, but his comparision of the other team (also predominantly black) as "cute girls" went largely unreported. The media, in this case and many others, feeds the racism conflict.
Agreed....When I think of "southern mentality"..I am with you...Saying Hi to strangers on the street, The opening of doors as stated, and general polite-ness....I suppose I was wrong....
P.S. Imus is a fool....Once again ppl look way to far to people on the radio and televison...He is a shock jock...His job is to be rude and unbearable....Kinda like 75% of morons on TV and Radio to begin with..

 

[ophiura]

But you see, this is a communication issue. This is having different perspectives and understandings. It is not necessarily racist IMO, it is just a difference in perception. It leads to a great deal of hatred. But IMO it is communication that is critical to overcome this.
Everyone has different perceptions of the meaning of terms...

 

[pontius]

if you make broad, blanket assumptions based on RACE, it is racist. just put it this way, if not racist (though I still say they ARE racist), terms like "white America", "black America", "Jew America", etc etc still are terms that divide, and what good does this division do? also, you say that because you are black, you have experiences that I would clearly not understand. well, I have several black friends who would disagree with you. in fact, the biggest difference between my black friends and I are the types of music we listen to. they don't go around looking for our differences or things to divide us or trying to figure out how they've been wronged in life. so in that sense, I'm more like them than you are, and that proves there is no such thing as "white America" and "black America". I'd have no problem though with if you said "black culture" or "white culture".
as far as the "southern mentality" comment, you've said that "thug" is a code-word for a black person, correct? well, I see "southern mentality" was code for a ignorant backward thinking person. so I take deep offense to someone implying this about me, I would be glad to compare and contrast my education/life experience/wisdom, etc etc with anyone that cares to.

 

[jovial]

It looks like Danny Glover is at it again, maybe he can team up with Rosie Odonnel and just move to Cuba.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Jovial
It looks like Danny Glover is at it again, maybe he can team up with Rosie Odonnel and just move to Cuba.
I thought he was doing ads for Venezuela (Hugo Chavez)?

 

[jovial]

Yup, a true Patriot. Those two would fit in better in Cuba since they hate America so much. Maybe Michael Moore could join them. What ever happened to movie stars like John Wayne? ... Looks like Odonnels been making more friends on the View lately.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Pontius
if you make broad, blanket assumptions based on RACE, it is racist. just put it this way, if not racist (though I still say they ARE racist), terms like "white America", "black America", "Jew America", etc etc still are terms that divide, and what good does this division do? also, you say that because you are black, you have experiences that I would clearly not understand. well, I have several black friends who would disagree with you. in fact, the biggest difference between my black friends and I are the types of music we listen to. they don't go around looking for our differences or things to divide us or trying to figure out how they've been wronged in life. so in that sense, I'm more like them than you are, and that proves there is no such thing as "white America" and "black America". I'd have no problem though with if you said "black culture" or "white culture".
as far as the "southern mentality" comment, you've said that "thug" is a code-word for a black person, correct? well, I see "southern mentality" was code for a ignorant backward thinking person. so I take deep offense to someone implying this about me, I would be glad to compare and contrast my education/life experience/wisdom, etc etc with anyone that cares to.
I didn't say that thug was a code word for a black person...I said that how it was said and by whom said it, it was directed towards a black person...I don't go around looking for differences, nor do I try to convience people how racism has affected me....America is not the same for everybody and if you believe this than you need to take a better look. Culture is not what I am reffering to...Many different ethnicities embrace the cultures of different groups...I encourage you to ask your black friends about this topic...and ask them about what is "white america" or "black america" and see what they will say....and if these terms are racist.... if they are truely your friends than you should be comfortable enough to ask them. I never said that you couldn't understand my experiences, but you want to deny that they exist... You have no idea... and to say that you are more like your black friends than I... what does that mean? They are your friends... I hope you have something in common... but you don't know me or truly who I am by what is said in this post... A state of affairs and institutions that are controlled or influenced by a particular group of people is not the same as culture.... Lets have a real conversation here and get off this racist stuff, because I am not and that is what you keep going to..there is no need for me to defend myself on this issue because I know who I am and what my beliefs are...

 

[darthtang aw]

"white america" or "black america"
This is what bothers me, sure there is a different America for everyone, but to label it by race is ridiculous....It is geography and monetary means, nothing else.
There is no Black France or white France...why do we as American's feel the need to label things based off race. Call it inner city America, Rural America, suburban America....these are more fitting. To think your race dictates how your particular lifestyle in The USA is described is just dumb. I know white kids that lived through your idea (or what I think your idea is) of black America....Yet they are white.....so do they not fit into your category of what is actually inner city America? They go through the same things as anyone that lives in those areas?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
"white america" or "black america"
This is what bothers me, sure there is a different America for everyone, but to label it by race is ridiculous....It is geography and monetary means, nothing else.
There is no Black France or white France...why do we as American's feel the need to label things based off race. Call it inner city America, Rural America, suburban America....these are more fitting. To think your race dictates how your particular lifestyle in The USA is described is just dumb. I know white kids that lived through your idea (or what I think your idea is) of black America....Yet they are white.....so do they not fit into your category of what is actually inner city America? They go through the same things as anyone that lives in those areas?
not a bad point...however this is not exactly the same thing to what I am referring to. France is a bad example for you to use because there is clearly a division over there with their muslim community and the rest of the population...what I am refering to is more than economics and lifestyle... how about we drop it because its no sense of us going back in forth because regardless if you agree w/ me or not, it still doesn't address the larger issues, or the one that started this...which were the comments about BET, scholarships, and someone feeling guilty or not guilty about slavery, and people who are tired of supporting drug dealers and lazy people...
The biggest problems we have in this country domestically as people are educational and economical...

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
...
The biggest problems we have in this country domestically as people are educational and economical...

I can agree with this. I believe it all stems down to education and personal pride/drive. If you want something bad enough, you can get it in this country regardless of your financial situation at the beginning...

 

[sharkboy13]

hmmmm, hot topic, well lets bump it

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
I can agree with this. I believe it all stems down to education and personal pride/drive. If you want something bad enough, you can get it in this country regardless of your financial situation at the beginning...
Agreed. Regardless of what people are saying, the economy is booming and has been for the past several years.

 

[aztec reef]

you people are funny talking about "Immigration" and Illegals thinking that that's what's wrong with America... But have you notice that Immigration wasn't such a huge Issue before 9-11. its like talking about Global Warming..
Immigration has always been a problem (decades ago) it just became a big issue after 911, i wonder if people would look at it the same if there was no 911.
But immagine being in a Country where you're not Free or feel safe. And were the Authories (the policia) is corrupted. What would you do?
I'm not saying that it is alright for people to immigrate Illegaly but i think it's Human Nature to try to find a better place were there's freedom, A chance to succeed and provide for future or present life..
Why has it been taking the US Goverment to do something about it? Why can't they fix this Illegal Immigration? Or maybe they really don't want to?
I don't advocate illegal crossing but when someone comes here with good intensions and respects the U.S. Laws and goes through Naturalization .Why not? I mean if the US was a messed up place i would want to move to CANADA preferably Amsterdan..
Btw, i don't believe in adnesty either and i'm a Republican.. is that odd?