whats wrong w/ america?!

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
...
I don't advocate illegal crossing but when someone comes here with good intensions and respects the U.S. Laws and goes through Naturalization .Why not?
I'm all for legal immigration. It's the illegal part that bothers me.
And let's not forget; Mexico has their military on their southern border trying to stop immigrants from Central America.

 

[aztec reef]

true, But imo there's no difference cause i know that at least 50% of people that come here "Legal" with a legit Passport/permit they usually just end up staying here permanently, meaning that their passport will be expired in a period of time and most of the time they end-up staying here and never renewing their passport/permit, there for also become illegal ..a passport is really easy to get in mexico for most people. But for the poor and Un-Educated the easyest and cheapest is to cross illegally..
IMO you have to earn PERMANENT RESIDENCY/CITIZENSHIP with Moral values, working hard, and Obeding the Law and Naturalizating. to me it doesn't matter how you came IN . Cause if you came here Illegally you should be penalized for it . Illegals do get penalized! with a big fine and sometimes you have to go back to the Country of origin (for some period)also in order to be Naturalized ..
Most Immigrants that are Legal Now, were Illegal at some point before.
p.s.
Look what a few Legalized Man from Afghanistan did on 911..that bothers me more..

 

[aztec reef]

What about Illegals not paying Taxes? They say that Illegals don't pay taxes but help me understand how that happends..
When you're employed Taxes come out of yor paycheck Automatically right?
So how can they not pay taxes? and also the Goverment doesn't send Income tax Refund to Illegals or people with a fake Social Security #, so What does the US Goverment do with that money that Illegals are Not getting refunded in their whole employment history?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
...When you're employed Taxes come out of yor paycheck Automatically right?...
Not if you are "contract" labor.

 

[aztec reef]

true, but that's not the Immigrants fault. Its the Employers that hire them..Its' so simple to put an End to it, all they have to do is Not give employment to illegals. Eventually if they can't work Illegaly they will go back to their Country. That's why they come here in the first place to Work..NOT FOR TOURISIM..
But Americas Booming economy is calling Immigrants and The American Employers see it as a investment/Growth, who doesn't like Good cheap labor?..
money is money, whether it comes from a paycheck or Under the table. The contractors are the ones that should be penalized, they're the ones doing things Illegaly.
It's funny how the Owners of those contractor companies are 100% American, they just put a Juan with a Legit Greencard to be in charge (to be The Boss) and to do the dirty work (hire Illegals and pay under the table)

.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
true, but that's not the Immigrants fault. Its the Employers that hire them..Its' so simple to put and end to it, all they have to do is Not give employment to illegals. Eventually if they can't work Illegaly they will go back to their Country. That's why they come here in the first place to Work..
But Americas Booming economy is calling Immigrants and The American Employers see it as a investment, who doesn't like Good cheap labor?..
money is money, whether it comes from a paycheck or Under the table. The contrators are the ones that should be penalized, they're the ones doing things Illegaly.
It's funny how the Owners of those contrator companies are 100% American, they just put a Juan with a good Greencard to be in charge (to be The Boss) and to do the dirty work (hire Illegals and pay under the table)

.

I love it when everyone states we have to blame the companies that hire them. You guys truly have no idea how illegals get hired then do you? Masybe only 25% of the illegals working in the U.S. are hired purposely. Most ilegals have a false, green card or social security number. Companies have no way to verify if these things are valid, match, and authentic. Yet it is the company's fault? Give me a frickin' break. I hate this argument and statement, it preaches ignorance on the part of the one that said. The companies that hire illegal unknown in this fashion NEVER find out til 3-5 years later when SS calls them and says the number doesn't match and is wrong. Then even then, they can not fire the employee. The employee is given 3 months to provide a correct number/ new number and that is sent in. Then they wait another 1-3 years again to see if that is valid.
Try blaming our system before you completely blame our private sector. At no point is the employer allowed to contact INS, the cops, about these guys, or fire them, as they truly don't have "proof" they are illegal.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
I love it when everyone states we have to blame the companies that hire them. You guys truly have no idea how illegals get hired then do you? Masybe only 25% of the illegals working in the U.S. are hired purposely. Most ilegals have a false, green card or social security number. Companies have no way to verify if these things are valid, match, and authentic. Yet it is the company's fault? Give me a frickin' break. I hate this argument and statement, it preaches ignorance on the part of the one that said. The companies that hire illegal unknown in this fashion NEVER find out til 3-5 years later when SS calls them and says the number doesn't match and is wrong. Then even then, they can not fire the employee. The employee is given 3 months to provide a correct number/ new number and that is sent in. Then they wait another 1-3 years again to see if that is valid.
Try blaming our system before you completely blame our private sector. At no point is the employer allowed to contact INS, the cops, about these guys, or fire them, as they truly don't have "proof" they are illegal.

Actually all it takes is a phone call to the Social Security Administration. And alot of companies have been doing this for years... over here in Oregon Locally it is known among Hispanics which companies don't check for "papers"
and which ones do.
All the goverment/city jobs don't hire Illegals(cause they do check) you have to be a Citizen to do those... why can't the other companies do that?
If they checked for papers amongs Janitors,Landscapers,Dishwashers. I bet you wouldn't see any Hispanics in those jobs..wether is playing dumb, Or not having the right to check,Or simply not worring about it. Who knows? They just got to admit that cheap labor with high yields of production is Great for their company..

 

[darthtang aw]

Certain states do not allow you to check numbers. In all cases you can only check if the number is valid, not if it matches up...so if it is a correct number....or number in use...the company does not know.

 

[aztec reef]

Actually i have known of various cases where Illegals get checked and their Social Security # comes out to be from a Diseased person Or from an Older/Newborn person..
Alot of this fake Social Security #'s are made-up Numbers, there's been cases where the # isn't even a real number. just totally odd numbers,or totally different paper texture material (of the Card)makes you wonder how can they get away with it?
I've even seen the New greencards with the picture on the back, looked as real as the real One. And those are suppost to Not be able to be cloned..

I wonder if someone in the Inside is getting his hands dirty

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Certain states do not allow you to check numbers. In all cases you can only check if the number is valid, not if it matches up...so if it is a correct number....or number in use...the company does not know.
Correct, that's why I don't like to blame employers either. Besides... just imagine the lawsuites if an employer asked a person if they were in the country legally. That's a good way to lose your business...

 

[aztec reef]

true, but the Employers are the ones with the power. so they are the ones that Can make a difference.. and Employers should not ask for permision it's suppost to be part of the hiring process if it gets followed accorangly..a.k.a. I-9 (EMPLOYMENT VERIFICATION FORM) INS form..

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
true, but the Employers are the ones with the power. so they are the ones that Can make a difference.. and Employers sholud not ask for permision it's suppost to be part of the hiring process if it gets followed accorangly..a.k.a. I-9 (EMPLOYMENT VERIFICATION FORM) INS form..
I disagree. That takes away any personal responsibility from the CRIMINAL. The illegal is fully aware that they are breaking the law. They are responsible for their own actions. They need to be held accountable for their own actions.
you know, what we need to do is start imprisoning people who are in this country illegally and make them work off their debt to our country for being here illegally. Then, when they are through serving their sentence, put them on a plane with a 1 way ticket (paid for by there labor) to their homelands capital city.

 

[aztec reef]

I disagree, I know that is breaking the law but why does the Goverment look at it as if it was a misdeminor crime?..Let's do something about it!!
That sounds like a good idea but i think that would be a waste of Tax money it's 60,000 a year to house an immate in prison. that's a waste to me for people that all they did is crossed borders illegally..
It's not like they're Endangering the society..To my eyes is not any worse than a Drunk driver endangering pedestrians....

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
..
It's not like they're Endangering the society..To my eyes is not any worse than a Drunk driver endangering pedestrians....
That's an oxymoron. Drunk drivers endanger people and are prosecuted (should be harsher punishments I agree).
Why does Mexico have a closed southern border with military guards? Mexico is promoting the exporting of it's poverty to us, while promoting the importing of illegally gained US dollars back to Mexico.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
That's an oxymoron. Drunk drivers endanger people and are prosecuted (should be harsher punishments I agree).
Why does Mexico have a closed southern border with military guards?
I know that wasn't a good example.. but if you think about it most of us break the law on a daily basis, wheter is running late to work and driving a little beyon the Speed limit or even when you go to your parents house and have dinner witha few drinks and all of the sudden you have comsume more than "Legal" limit and still manage to drive perfectly back home. Theres countless occasions where people brake the law daily. whether is Intenssionaly,Idiotic, lack of or organization skills,Ignorance or just for fun..Or the plain reason of Need...It's all the same, just different Instenses..
.
Right now Mexico is run by the Mexican Drug Cartels..and Vicente Fox though that somehow having a closed border was teaming with the US on Homeland Security..(personally i don't buy it).
as for the Exporting dollars, it's all drug cartels and that money usually ends up back up here.. "what goes around comes back around".. CRIME,POVERTY & CORRUPTION is what's driving the Illegals to migrate.
the Cartels have a lot of power and mainly cause the Authories are involved..has anyone heard what happen to the 100's of woman killed in Juarez Mexico by the drug cartels? No one in mexico wants to even talk about it (the media) ..and the worse part is that there was some high ranked Authories involved with the massacre..

 

[1journeyman]

I might agree with all of that.
That doesn't change or justify the facts, however. The people of Mexico need to clean house.

 

[jovial]

A guy told me of a simple way to stop illeagal immigration, mine the borders.

 

[reefer545]

HEY SHARK BOY. DO YOU OWN A SALTWATER FISH OR REEF TANK? IF YOU DO, WHAT A GREAT LUXURY! TAKE YOU STUPID THREAD AND WISH YOU WERENT A TOTAL HYPOCRIT.
I agree there is a ton WRONG with this country, but don't sound so self righteous. You are missing the real picture, and its obvious reading thorugh this stupid thread. Everybody sounds like they spend any vacation money that might actually cause them to learn of the other parts of the world on their damn fishtanks. Scuba diving for a week does not count. None of you lived in another place long enough to make any of the judgements you were told by the government in the first place. Get REAL. stop judging and making yourself sound like you care because you started a thread about the gov. Who wants to talk about religion, politics, adn gasoline prices? EVERYBODY. Who wants to DO what they have to do to make themselves Right about any of them? NOBODY>you, me, and everyone else on this thread/
Get an identity not something you heard in philosophyor humanities class.
Know God Know Peace, No God No Peace

 

[seasalt101]

pretty harsh from a religous man...tobin

 

[reefer545]

Hey tobin.
Religion is not always like a baby bunny rabbit,. Ever read Revelation? I realize I could do SO MUCH MORE for the rest of the people in the world. I also realize, it will not make a difference, and that with that said, I am much better trying to influence the people directly around me. I have not been given that much responsibilty or power yet, and so I must look at EVERY situation like it matters just as much as giving AFrica my inheritance.