While we are at it, let's close all our Eurpean military bases.

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by usirchchris
http:///forum/post/3138800
As for the first comment...I am still lost. A terrorist perhaps, but I would not compare anyone to the likes of your suggestion.
As for your second comment.

This does not surprise me, coming from you, at all. You couldn't possibly say that out loud with a straight face.
You're OK with calling Obama a terrorist?

And you actually think that association is acceptable over calling him Hitler? You have a real warped sense of reality. You need to read the headlines and watch the news more often when they show these Tea Bagger rallies. Half of them have pictures of Obama with the little mustache on his face, others have placards with phrases like, "Obama, the next Socilaist Ruler" with little swaztikas on them. So if you're not seeing this stuff when it's very apparent what the Right thinks of Obama, then you are lost. What's even sadder is your lack of respect for the President of this country, regardless of what you may think about his policies.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3138887
The fact we are still far from done in either country and opening up a third front would be no-win situation.
Depends on what you view as a win. Most l;ikely it will be treated differently. Iraq is relatively stable compared to recent history. We are shifting troops from there to Afghanistan at the moment to calm the resurgence of the Taliban in that country...with in a year we will have it under control is my estimation...The reason it is taking longer and you hear bad things from a Canadian soldier....Other countries are scaling back their troop strength as we have increased ours....Their units and boots on the ground are smaller now thus when they take hits it is worse because they don't have the immediate support from their own troops in the vicinity. While we all coordinate it isn't a mixing of units from different countries. Each are their own separate units thus other countries have a harder time getting back up in the vicinity as quickly because now it has to go through channels. If the NATO fighting force would have left their troop strength alone and maybe even increased a bit when we did, we would be done by now. Obama also needs to put pressure on Pakistan to allow to enter the mountains on the border to root out where their bases and nest are. No point in maintaining the fight if we can't strike at the heart in the region to stem its tide.
Iran would not need to be a destroy, conquer, and hold conquest. It just needs to be a destroy. Take out their major military operations...eliminate the nuke threat and then pull back. In the grand scheme an easier goal to accomplish. The problem will be how to do this with creating nuclear fall out.
The nuclear watchdog for the U.N. has been hiding information on Iran from what I am seeing and I suspect Russia is having a lot to do with this since they had a lot of military contracts with Iran...wouldn't surprise me if they are ones providing the nuclear tech to Iran slowly much like France was doing with Iraq in the late 70's and early 80's. This is why it has been so difficult to get Russia to join talks and resolutions against Iran.Iran is hot, any airstrike on the nuclear facility will create fallout.....which poses a problem...which is why I don't think the war would be just airstrikes, it would have to be an insert and sabotage mission of the facility with boots on the ground to do it with less global impact.
Israel couldn't do the same thing they did with Iraq in the 80"s because of the distance...otherwise they would have never allowed Iran to go so far since Iran has been saying Israel's destruction is at hand...plus the global mindset towards Israel has changed.....everyone wants them to make "peace" more so now than then......The global public seems to have forgotten they are surrounded by enemies that want their destruction......so Israel is on eggshells.

 

[mantisman51]

I think he is rushing us out of Iraq too soon and I STRONGLY disagree with his cancellation of the final production run of F-22 Raptors, I mean why cancel a project that no enemy can stop and could force bad guys to the negotiating table. But, he doesn't appear, so far, to be a Bill Clinton-sell all the secrets for cash-sort. Even his withdrawal from Irag has a silver-lining, he is keeping combat troops in bases outside of the cities until 2015. So, it seems he really is a a moderate who is trying to take care of business and still honor his promises to his constituency. I, as a very social conservative, would give him an overall rating of 70%. He doesn't scare me like Hilary.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3139237
What's even sadder is your lack of respect for the President of this country, regardless of what you may think about his policies.
Now this is funny, You are asking people that oppose your views and that of the current President to show respect the office is due. Yet, not once have you EVER asked the same of those inline with your views of BUSH to show similar respect to the position Bush held....I guess it is ok for people to vile to a president as long as it is one you don't like.

 

[oscardeuce]

We need at least airfield to stage cargo planes (whoops cancelled) to move supplies and equipment througout the world. These fields need defended. Either you pre staged gear including tanks ammo supplies or you fly them in. Both need bases.
Many of these bases are mandated by out treaties with allies and other organizations.
I would like some of the other countries to ante up, but it's funny it seems the only non socialist country has the "extra" money to spend on defending itself and others.
Never should have cancelled the F-22, that plane has nothing to match it anywhere.
President Obama is spending less on R+D and more on social programs. I doubt the Chinese, Iranian, and Russian gov't are sad he is doing that while they redouble efforts. We may not be a superpower much longer.
Do you want someone else to have all the advanced aircraft, missiles, weapons etc?

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3139300
Now this is funny, You are asking people that oppose your views and that of the current President to show respect the office is due. Yet, not once have you EVER asked the same of those inline with your views of BUSH to show similar respect to the position Bush held....I guess it is ok for people to vile to a president as long as it is one you don't like.
Liberals have shown themselves to be the biggest bunch of hypocrites ever. Two different members of the Democrat party called Bush a liar on the house floor, no calls of official reprimands there. Democrat John Murtha called a group of marines who were later exonerated murderers, again not a word from Puglosi. Not to say the conservative side doesn't have their own hypocrites too not but like this.

 

[usirchchris]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3139237
You're OK with calling Obama a terrorist?

And you actually think that association is acceptable over calling him Hitler? You have a real warped sense of reality. You need to read the headlines and watch the news more often when they show these Tea Bagger rallies. Half of them have pictures of Obama with the little mustache on his face, others have placards with phrases like, "Obama, the next Socilaist Ruler" with little swaztikas on them. So if you're not seeing this stuff when it's very apparent what the Right thinks of Obama, then you are lost. What's even sadder is your lack of respect for the President of this country, regardless of what you may think about his policies.
Sorry if you don't like my sense of reality, but if yours is from headlines and news

...the news is an entertainment business, nothing more...They will always show the most radical thing they can, to get a rise out of folks like yourself...keeps you tuned in doesn't it

. I don't see how you lefties can't see how he is destroying the very fiber that makes this country great. You my friend are lost. It will be a pointless discussion here for both of us. You will see no wrong. I call it as I see it, and see no right. And I agree with Darth...get off your high horse about respect...the left showed absolutely none to bush, and I bet you weren't questioning or pointing fingers at them. This is a silly fish forum, not like I am sharing a beer directly with Obama talking about local issues with no relevence to the rest of the nation or his office. Besides this, there are varying degrees of terrorism depending on your definition, and only 1 degree of Hitler, which by the way...you brought up. So yes I would say there is a large distinction. Rest easy and enjoy another glass of kool-aid, he won, you have the house, and I am just an out of touch right wing moron...bigot...etc. etc.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3139300
Now this is funny, You are asking people that oppose your views and that of the current President to show respect the office is due. Yet, not once have you EVER asked the same of those inline with your views of BUSH to show similar respect to the position Bush held....I guess it is ok for people to vile to a president as long as it is one you don't like.
Hey, I'll be the first to say I've called Bush a moron, idiot, and incompetent. But through his eight years of service, I never saw any pictures of him with a Hitler mustache, swaztika, called a Solcialist pig, or even an ephogy of him hanging in a tree.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by usirchchris
http:///forum/post/3139452
Sorry if you don't like my sense of reality, but if yours is from headlines and news

...the news is an entertainment business, nothing more...They will always show the most radical thing they can, to get a rise out of folks like yourself...keeps you tuned in doesn't it

. I don't see how you lefties can't see how he is destroying the very fiber that makes this country great. You my friend are lost. It will be a pointless discussion here for both of us. You will see no wrong. I call it as I see it, and see no right. And I agree with Darth...get off your high horse about respect...the left showed absolutely none to bush, and I bet you weren't questioning or pointing fingers at them. This is a silly fish forum, not like I am sharing a beer directly with Obama talking about local issues with no relevence to the rest of the nation or his office. Besides this, there are varying degrees of terrorism depending on your definition, and only 1 degree of Hitler, which by the way...you brought up. So yes I would say there is a large distinction. Rest easy and enjoy another glass of kool-aid, he won, you have the house, and I am just an out of touch right wing moron...bigot...etc. etc.
What headline news? Go to any of these Tea Baggers rallies, and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. You need a reality check. Varying degrees of terrorism? Exactly how does Obama fit into that picture? Please oh please tell me what 'level of terrorism' Obama has instigated against this country. If you actually believe Obama is responsible for ANY degree of terrorism against this country, then you truly are a moron.
The man has only been in office 9 months. He's enacted NOTHING that has caused your taxes to go up, or anything that can be construed as Socialistic. The Republicans and Right Wingers just can't get over the fact they lost the election. That's the bottom line. Bush was the catalyst for the recession we're in now, and even was the instigator of the stimulus and bailout plans you rail Obama about. Why didn't you rally your troops when Bush was bringing the US economy to a near collapse?

 

[usirchchris]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3139683
What headline news? Go to any of these Tea Baggers rallies, and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. You need a reality check. Varying degrees of terrorism? Exactly how does Obama fit into that picture? Please oh please tell me what 'level of terrorism' Obama has instigated against this country. If you actually believe Obama is responsible for ANY degree of terrorism against this country, then you truly are a moron.
The man has only been in office 9 months. He's enacted NOTHING that has caused your taxes to go up, or anything that can be construed as Socialistic. The Republicans and Right Wingers just can't get over the fact they lost the election. That's the bottom line. Bush was the catalyst for the recession we're in now, and even was the instigator of the stimulus and bailout plans you rail Obama about. Why didn't you rally your troops when Bush was bringing the US economy to a near collapse?
Tsk, Tsk, personal attacks. I have been to two rallies, and saw nothing of what you described. How many did you attend? I definitely construe what he did to the financial industry, auto industry and now the huge push for medical as socialistic. How one could view it otherwise is beyond my scope. I guarantee taxes will go up for me, you, your kids, your kids kids and so on and so on as a result of the recent stimulus. Bush is out of office...it's Obama's baby now. I never said anything Obama did resulted in a terrorist attack. I didn't even call him a terrorist...I said perhaps. Go back and re-read what I said. I view his policies as weakening our country. A terrorists agenda is to weaken the country...I was merely trying to lessen the pretentious degree of likening the man to Hitler, which is utterly rediculous, and again what YOU brought up in the first place. Don't take everything so seriously. You seem to get so worked up about this stuff...you need to relax and accept the fact that not all people think like you. Btw, there are things Bush did that I did not agree with...had I seen a topic on here in regards to one of them I may have chimed in. I have not created any political threads of my own.

 

[usirchchris]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3139237
You need to read the headlines and watch the news more often when they show these Tea Bagger rallies. Half of them have pictures of Obama with the little mustache on his face, others have placards with phrases like, "Obama, the next Socilaist Ruler" with little swaztikas on them. So if you're not seeing this stuff when it's very apparent what the Right thinks of Obama, then you are lost.

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3139683
What headline news?

You tell me?

 

[usirchchris]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3139682
Hey, I'll be the first to say I've called Bush a moron, idiot, and incompetent. But through his eight years of service, I never saw any pictures of him with a Hitler mustache, swaztika, called a Solcialist pig, or even an ephogy of him hanging in a tree.
You didn't see any of the rallies of people pushing for Bush to be tried for warcrimes? All kinds of crap. Your cable must have been out those days...it was on the news, oh in the paper too...dog must have gotten them

.

 

[mantisman51]

http://www.geocities.com/bushfamilynazis/
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/advehsrt.htm
Which is why I have asked for restraint in speaking about our Presidents. This lunacy is keeping us from having a real debate on the substance of the issues. Obama is a moderate/left liberal. He isn't the anti-Christ or Stalin. He is a man with certain political beliefs. If he's wrong on defense, how so? I am starting to respect him like I haven't had respect for ANY Democrat president in my lifetime. I disagree with him on a great number of things, but he isn't a liar-he has his spin like we have ours.Clinton was a threat to our national security, with his (still) dubious ties to the Chinese government. Carter was a n uetered wimp who almost cost us the cold war. Obama seems to have learned those lessons and is a very centerist President so far. I said I'd give him 70% before. Actually, I'd give him 80%. And I am a right-wing, Christian conservative. I just haven't sold my mind to the big business, Limbaugh wing of conservatism.

 

[bionicarm]

http://flipcelebs.blogspot.com/2009/...ate-signs.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_187554.html
http://vodpod.com/watch/2077773-limb...ey-frank-event
http://jaxpolitics.wordpress.com/200...-at-tea-party/
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/seton-m...r-poster-conse
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/06/...-obama-hitler/
How many more do you want?
You also haven't explained how Obama is considered a terrorist in any shape or form..

 

[mantisman51]

BTW, in asking "if he's wrong on defense..." is meant rhetorically. I disagree with quite a bit of his defense policies. But I can still respect him as my President.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3139682
Hey, I'll be the first to say I've called Bush a moron, idiot, and incompetent. But through his eight years of service, I never saw any pictures of him with a Hitler mustache, swaztika, called a Solcialist pig, or even an ephogy of him hanging in a tree.

How many more you want?
And since when is it wrong to call a socialist pig a socialist pig?

 

[usirchchris]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3139892
http://flipcelebs.blogspot.com/2009/...ate-signs.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_187554.html
http://vodpod.com/watch/2077773-limb...ey-frank-event
http://jaxpolitics.wordpress.com/200...-at-tea-party/
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/seton-m...r-poster-conse
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/06/...-obama-hitler/
How many more do you want?
You also haven't explained how Obama is considered a terrorist in any shape or form..
Why do you keep driving this point? I never said people do not portray Obama in a negative light, and I never brought it up to begin with. You keep bringing this up...he is in the public eye, it's going to happen...what is your point? It's not like I am doing it and I have never seen it before. This does not mean it does not exist, but does detract from your point that it is everywhere. It happened to Bush and probably every president before him. I can't help this. I am sorry this offends you on behalf of all right wingers...does this help?
As far as the terrorist comment...you are not paying attention Bionic...please go back and read again...perhaps two times will explain it for you, or perhaps you missed the road map...last post first page. I am unsure how else to elaborate on my point. If you still don't get it, just leave it alone. It is only stressing you out, and I just don't care that much.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3139683
What headline news? Go to any of these Tea Baggers rallies, and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. You need a reality check. Varying degrees of terrorism? Exactly how does Obama fit into that picture? Please oh please tell me what 'level of terrorism' Obama has instigated against this country. If you actually believe Obama is responsible for ANY degree of terrorism against this country, then you truly are a moron.
The man has only been in office 9 months. He's enacted NOTHING that has caused your taxes to go up, or anything that can be construed as Socialistic. The Republicans and Right Wingers just can't get over the fact they lost the election. That's the bottom line. Bush was the catalyst for the recession we're in now, and even was the instigator of the stimulus and bailout plans you rail Obama about. Why didn't you rally your troops when Bush was bringing the US economy to a near collapse?
Where's the money to pay for all this new spending going to come from? You really don't think your taxes are going up

 

[usirchchris]

Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3139891
http://www.geocities.com/bushfamilynazis/
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/advehsrt.htm
Obama is a moderate/left liberal. I am starting to respect him like I haven't had respect for ANY Democrat president in my lifetime. I said I'd give him 70% before. Actually, I'd give him 80%. And I am a right-wing, Christian conservative. I just haven't sold my mind to the big business, Limbaugh wing of conservatism.

Are you serious? He left moderate in the dust long before he even hit the campaign trail. I can say I like what he had to say about Kanye, and I don't disagree with his decision about the missile defense, but everything else I can think of is about as far away from conservative as you can get. Just curious...what 80% do you agree with?

 

[mantisman51]

Yes, we should pull out ALL of our bases in Western Europe and redeploy them with our real allies in Poland and Georgia. Let the rat-ba*tardsin Europe stew in the filth of their own making.