While we are at it, let's close all our Eurpean military bases.

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3141227
How can he deliver a health care package without raising taxes? Without having full access to the Federal Budget that gives a line-by-line detail of where every penny of our tax dollars goes, I couldn't tell you. The sad part is, there's probably not one person in Washington that could give you that information. However, Obama claims he can pay for this bill using excess in the budget. Define 'excess'. If the excess was defined, and you had tangible numbers showing you exactly which programs would be axed or reduced to completely pay for this program, would you still be satisfied and agree with it? Probably not. Why? Because you don't trust our government system anymore, at least not the one running the show right now. You think that since the Democrats have the majority in all three Legislative branches, that they can pass anything they want. Apparently that's not how it works. Otherwise, we'd be stuck with the original 1000-page House bill on healthcare. Unlike you, I'm taking the wait-and-see approach to how this will come out. Is it wrong to trust the individuals we elected to make the right decisions? It just might be. But if you're right and I'm wrong, what does that say about our government system?
He or no one else can do this without raising taxes. The point is he is telling bold face lies about it.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3141236
Nice proposal. Unfortunately, if we completely ignore the healthcare issue AGAIN, and wait until we balance what I've called a 'virtual debt', you will see millions of Americans get gravely ill and possibly die because they cannot afford the healthcare needed to keep them healthy. But then, the conservative philosophy has always been 'the survival of the fittest'. Throw compassion for you fellow man out the door as long as it doesn't take any extra money out of your stingy little hands.

Nice scare tactic there. Fortunately there are enough sensible Democrats in congress to thwart Pelosi and Obama's plan because they know it would be a disaster.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3141236
Nice proposal. Unfortunately, if we completely ignore the healthcare issue AGAIN, and wait until we balance what I've called a 'virtual debt', you will see millions of Americans get gravely ill and possibly die because they cannot afford the healthcare needed to keep them healthy. But then, the conservative philosophy has always been 'the survival of the fittest'. Throw compassion for you fellow man out the door as long as it doesn't take any extra money out of your stingy little hands.

So you are saying...healthcare is more important than, lowering the unemployment in this country, strengthening the dollar so it goes further, and increasing federal revenue through more people working so the federal government can pay for things we already are not ble to pay for (such as medicare and medicaid).
Healthcare is more important to people and the future of this country than jobs and a lower unemployment rate is what you just said.
And you have the gall to bring up compassion?
"sorry little girl, we don't have enough money for you to eat today, but lets go down to the clinic and get you one of those free flu shots and a check up.....won't that be fun....maybe they will give you an IV drip this time to subside the hunger pains and malnutrition"

 

[reefraff]

I listened to Limbaugh for a while today. He had a clip of Obama's main man Axlerod on CNN. They were talking about the competition aspect of health insurance and God Bless him Blitzer asked why not allow health insurance to be bought across state lines. That would be the ultimate competition and you should have heard Axelrod digging for excuses. That should tell you all you need to know about the motives of the administration right there. If they were truly interested in lowering the costs of insurance through competition allowing the buying across state lines is a no brainer.

 

[jackri]

Since when was treatment ever denied in the US? It's law you get treated with or without health care so you are going to get the care you need.
Why should I have to pay for someone else's health care unwillingly? If you work hard and make money you must be punished.
Take the incentive away from the people to work and you're left with a lot of people without incentive and expect handouts.
Do some people need help and truely are hurting? Sure
Can a lot of these unemployed people get a couple of fast food jobs and educate themselves and through hard work improve their lives? Absolutely.
It's amazing how during the true depression my ancestors would've starved without some food from the neighbors and how good people really have it now. There were no handouts to make you middleclass back then and it also wasn't expected. People took care of people -- but get the gov't involved and each step becomes more and more ineffiecient.
Can't wait for Michael Moore's new "documentary" to come out and brainwash some more.

 

[reefraff]

What makes me crazy is none of these politicians have guts enough to do whats right. You could solve a lot of problems by telling all the special interest groups to go eat a booger and just do what needs to be done.

 

[jackri]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3141433
What makes me crazy is none of these politicians have guts enough to do whats right. You could solve a lot of problems by telling all the special interest groups to go eat a booger and just do what needs to be done.
+ like a bazillion.
That goes for both sides not having the coconuts to do the right thing. No honest man can raise the funds to get elected though.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by jackri
http:///forum/post/3141437
+ like a bazillion.
That goes for both sides not having the coconuts to do the right thing. No honest man can raise the funds to get elected though.
Absolutely. The reason I oppose the Democrat party is that they are the ones that want to do away with what has worked for generations. Not that I think the Republicans have the answers but the status quo at least works to some degree. Just because the current system doesn't work as well as it could, be it health care, taxes or whatever I don't think that is justification to just throw out what we have and start over. I guess what I am saying is the Republicans are less damaging. What a reason to support a party

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by jackri
http:///forum/post/3141351
Why should I have to pay for someone else's health care unwillingly?
You and I, that is if you work for a company and not the government (taxpayer socially funded)- city/state/federal(includes military) are paying more for the uninsured through increased monthly premiums/insurance cost and ever increasing co-pays and deductable. Hospitals go after the uninsured through debt collectors, but what isn’t collected, is charged in higher line item cost to the insured. You and I pay for it no matter what. I personally rather it be above board, rather than the current process that puts me and my company at higher risk. Every year for me the blanket statement comes out - due to the increasing cost of healthcare, we are going to increase your cost (monthly contribution, deductable. Co-pays) – that’s in a nutshell. You can believe that you aren’t currently paying for the uninsured and that by bringing it above board is going to cost you more - that’s your choice. 23 years ago I paid a $50 deductable and that was it - no co-pay. Not totally true, the “above and beyond usually customary rate” was the gimmick then.

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3141344
I listened to Limbaugh for a while today. .
There lies the problem - I wouldn't take any advice or information from someone that has manipulated the healthcare system to feed his, not- teen, not mid-life, but much older - drug addiction cheat. Heck, you can go to any rehabilitation center or penitentiary and take advice with the same credibility…..
dang it, I thought this was the health care thread.... It's the European U.S. military thread.

 

[jackri]

Those that hate Rush are the ones that have never listened to him for any length of time. Yeah he has a god complex but he does his research.
I also didn't say I wasn't paying for others... I just mentioned why should I have to?
Or if someone wants 7 kids they can't afford, or are irresponsible in other areas.
The only way to make everyone equal is bring the top down and have them join the bottom. There are some who just refuse to succeed. (that doesn't include those down on their luck in hard times btw)

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by jackri
http:///forum/post/3141470
Those that hate Rush are the ones that have never listened to him for any length of time.

I have listened to him before... I have also, listened to Howard Stern before.
I choose not to listen to Either one of them, too. They are in the same category, shock and out for their own financial gain regardless of any kind of personal responsibility................. Neither one are patriots, but peddlers of evil and self indulgent.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3141246
So you are saying...healthcare is more important than, lowering the unemployment in this country, strengthening the dollar so it goes further, and increasing federal revenue through more people working so the federal government can pay for things we already are not ble to pay for (such as medicare and medicaid).
Healthcare is more important to people and the future of this country than jobs and a lower unemployment rate is what you just said.
And you have the gall to bring up compassion?
"sorry little girl, we don't have enough money for you to eat today, but lets go down to the clinic and get you one of those free flu shots and a check up.....won't that be fun....maybe they will give you an IV drip this time to subside the hunger pains and malnutrition"

I didn't say healthcare is more important, but the conservatives want to use it as the excuse for what's wrong with the economy. Don't waste money on healthcare for the people who can't afford it. Put all that spare cash in more pork-filled bills - Bridge To Nowhere, $50 million highway overpass to go over a Farm To Market Road outside a piddly town of 50,000 (this one is in Texas), few million for a monument for some dead or retired Congressman, etc. Tell that to the little girl who doesn't have money to buy her fat-ladened Happy Meal while she's playing a game on her $300 PSP and listening to music on her $400 Iphone.

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by jackri
http:///forum/post/3141470
I also didn't say I wasn't paying for others... I just mentioned why should I have to?
Or if someone wants 7 kids they can't afford, or are irresponsible in other areas.
Again, WE already are. So is your company for which you make the wages that support you and your family - and the 7 kids of others. That hidden tax...

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3141446
Absolutely. The reason I oppose the Democrat party is that they are the ones that want to do away with what has worked for generations. Not that I think the Republicans have the answers but the status quo at least works to some degree. Just because the current system doesn't work as well as it could, be it health care, taxes or whatever I don't think that is justification to just throw out what we have and start over. I guess what I am saying is the Republicans are less damaging. What a reason to support a party
You're actually going to say that with a straight face?

The Republicans held the top office for the last eight years, and look where that left the economy. Why do you think the Democrats made the sweep in all three categories in the last election? And please don't use the excuse that Bush was a lame duck his last couple years. He had plenty of time to make his own Change, and he spent it all chasing a ghost in Iraq. The Democrats want to throw out what we had because it isn't working. Just because some economic strategy that was devised decades ago worked like a charm back then, doesn't mean those same principles apply today. 'Back Then' we were in a Cold War going toe to toe with Russia. Now, they're just a middle-of-the-road adversary that sits around picking on its Border Buddies. Our economic strength back then depended on the export business of American-made products, and now there's hardly anything lefy that's Made In America. The world economic powerhouse today is China. Back in the good old days, the only thing people associated China with was Chop Suey and cheaply made toys. Keynesian economics made have been the defacto practice 'back then', but thos principles don't seem to be cutting it in today's world economic strategies.

 

[zman1]

Nevermind Jacki - I just looked up your UserID. Your an ANG. I too was part of a socialized health care system for four years during a time, I was RA. Perhaps my comment was out of line about our public comapany paying for the unisured. Unless you aren't fulltime ANG and work in the public sector normally, then it is. The 7 kids could be dependants of a military service member..%%

 

[jackri]

If it matters I pay for my health care, it's not "given" to me through the military. If it were heaven forbid you get a "benefit" for doing your duty.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/3141457
There lies the problem - I wouldn't take any advice or information from someone that has manipulated the healthcare system to feed his, not- teen, not mid-life, but much older - drug addiction cheat. Heck, you can go to any rehabilitation center or penitentiary and take advice with the same credibility…..
dang it, I thought this was the health care thread.... It's the European U.S. military thread.
But I have sense enough to listen not to the announcer or commentator, I listen to the actual uncut tape of the exchange between Axelrod and Wolf Blitzer. You can try to use the Democrat method of deflecting the criticism by demonizing the messenger or the way you tried to minimize the ACORN workers despicable actions by posting up links to other's misdeeds all you want but it doesn't change the facts. I would place more credibility on Limbaugh than about any NBC news person. Even so I don't take the stuff he says at face value but haven't never caught him in a lie. As far as when he or others try to assign a motive to other people's actions I take that with a grain of salt, it's all opinion designed to fit his agebnda which is what his show is billed as. The mainstream media on the other hand doesn't admit they are pushing an agenda.

 

[jackri]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3141511
The mainstream media on the other hand doesn't admit they are pushing an agenda.
Checkmate, gin and yahtzee

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3141494
You're actually going to say that with a straight face?

The Republicans held the top office for the last eight years, and look where that left the economy. Why do you think the Democrats made the sweep in all three categories in the last election? And please don't use the excuse that Bush was a lame duck his last couple years. He had plenty of time to make his own Change, and he spent it all chasing a ghost in Iraq. The Democrats want to throw out what we had because it isn't working. Just because some economic strategy that was devised decades ago worked like a charm back then, doesn't mean those same principles apply today. 'Back Then' we were in a Cold War going toe to toe with Russia. Now, they're just a middle-of-the-road adversary that sits around picking on its Border Buddies. Our economic strength back then depended on the export business of American-made products, and now there's hardly anything lefy that's Made In America. The world economic powerhouse today is China. Back in the good old days, the only thing people associated China with was Chop Suey and cheaply made toys. Keynesian economics made have been the defacto practice 'back then', but thos principles don't seem to be cutting it in today's world economic strategies.
The Republicans got swept out of power because they screwed up. That doesn't mean the system is bad. It means they did the same crap the Democrats did for decades and used the appropriations process to buy their way to re-election.
Keep in mind part of the reason for shipping jobs overseas is onerous regulations pushed by the left so don't try to lay that at the feet of the Republicans. Plenty of jobs left during Clinton's term too.
Bushes biggest mistake economy wise was too much spending. I don't see how your boy Obama increasing spending even more is going to help things.