10 Gallon Sump Saga

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmasterson http:///forum/thread/381467/eshopps-vs-lifereef-overflow/60#post_3327461
Posted and didnt even see the new posts from today! Corey, that is a great idea about using the plastic baffle underneath the glass. Since i already have the glass pieces purchased, maybe it will make sense to go the glass route over acrylic for better adhesion. The nice thing with my skimmer is that it is magnetized so i can raise and lower extremely easy. So i think making the baffle a tad higher than the skimmer requirements which are 8-8.5" might be easier to give the skimmer a little breathing room. If the sweet spot ends up being lower or higher i will have some wiggle room to work with.
I am thinking of opting for Al's 3rd drawing implementing the bubble tower and using the 1st baffle as part of the tower to save space. I will however swap the refugium with the return and make the middle the refugium. It seems like you guys really like the return in the center. If i am really looking to slow flow down wont it be more beneficial to have the return last in line to let the flow hit up against the rocks/algae in the refugium to aid in slowing down before hitting the return? I guess less plumbing for me that way as well. Also, the last drawing will have a 4x4" bubble tower allowing more rocks in it to slow flow compared with 3.25"x3.25" in the middle drawing.
My tank is in dire need to get this up and running! Hair algae is getting so sickening to look at
Sounds like a good idea on the baffle height for the skimmer section.
The thing about having the return in the middle is that you can split your drain line and control the amount of water going through the fuge. The reason being as that you can increase the dwell time of the water in the fuge. If you're running things like a sand bed and macro algea it is but better to have a slow amount of flow traveling though it because it gives the macro and bacteria in the fuge more time to do what it's supposed to do. The way alot of people do it is to have 75% of your drain water going through your skimmer and approximately 25% going through the fuge. This is not to say that the other way WON'T work...I'm just trying to point out that your fuge will be more efficient if done in the other fashion as illustrated above.
Your return pump will determine the rate of flow through your sump. Your overflow is going to drain the excact same amount of water that is being pushed into your tank by the pump. Having the fuge before the return won't to anything to slow the rate of flow down. If that were somehow to happen would you would end up with is your pump pumping water faster into your tank than it would be recieving in the return chamber. If that makes sense. Again, not trying to knock anybody elses design or what the previous builder you spoke with was trying to sugguest. Guys have been doing it that way for years. But more recent studies have shown this newer way to be quite efficient.
 

mcmasterson

Member
Hey Corey,
This does make more sense now after reading your response. So just split the drain into two and have two ball valves in the drain line thus controlling the flow to each section. Looks like time to change the plans yet again!
So what about my comment regarding the 1st baffle being part of the bubble tower? If i opt for that first baffle to be 9.5" do i make the other side of the bubble tower also 9.5" but have the eggcrate at the bottom allowing flow through to the skimmer? Do you feel that only 4" of eggcrate will allow enough space for the flow to enter the skimmer section or will i likely be seeing some flow over the 9.5" baffle into return area passing the skimmer section completely?
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmasterson http:///forum/thread/381467/eshopps-vs-lifereef-overflow/80#post_3327475
Hey Corey,
This does make more sense now after reading your response. So just split the drain into two and have two ball valves in the drain line thus controlling the flow to each section. Looks like time to change the plans yet again!
So what about my comment regarding the 1st baffle being part of the bubble tower? If i opt for that first baffle to be 9.5" do i make the other side of the bubble tower also 9.5" but have the eggcrate at the bottom allowing flow through to the skimmer? Do you feel that only 4" of eggcrate will allow enough space for the flow to enter the skimmer section or will i likely be seeing some flow over the 9.5" baffle into return area passing the skimmer section completely?
Excactly!
The height sounds just fine...the only thing that worries me is having the baffle height the same as the bubble tower height. Because what's going to happen is the water in the bubble tower is going to rise all the way up to the top which is the same height as the baffle. Essentially the bubble trap would be rendered all but useless at that point. I'd sugguest raising the height of the bubble tower itself so that the water can't bypass the skimmer area. Perhaps when Al shows back up he can rework his drawing to better illustrate what I'm trying to get at.
I think the 4" of eggcrate would be ok but you'll probably want it I would say at least 3" high...maybe 4". Lets see what my partners in crime have to say.
 

mcmasterson

Member
I know what you mean. Perhaps i could have just the 4" of bubble tower baffle be higher than the rest of the baffle. so like 9.5" all the way until it reaches the bubble tower area and have that last 4" of the baffle area jump up to like 10.5" then the other half of the bubble tower be 9.5" that way a lot of flow will go out below, but if and when it does overflow it will do so on the 9.5" section which will be in the skimmer section.
Or i guess i could give up 3/4" to make the bubble tower separate and have a super skinny 3/4" space between one side of bubble tower and the 1st 9.5" baffle. I assume higher the better for the bubble tower in hopes of having all the water coming in forced to flow out the bottom.
 

al&burke

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/381467/eshopps-vs-lifereef-overflow/60#post_3327460
It looks like he does have them drawn up as one and the same. I do see a little problem with that though is there would be nothing to stop the water in the bubble tower from filling all the way up to the top with water. Perhaps it would be better to raise the bubble tower higher to go to the top of the sump. That way the water and bubbles wouldn't overflow it and go into the return section. Typically the 2nd baffle in the bubble trap is raised up about an inch. Probably isn't totally necissary but sometimes easier to cut or get pieces cut the same size. And it's a sure bet that all that water will be directed downward first instead of any water managing to spill over top of it if there's alot of flow traveling over it.
Hi Guys, sorry went to bed early last night not feeling too great, the first baffle is actually lower than the bubble tower, by 1", there is a line just hard to see, I also think this arrangement saves alot of space, tower is a bit wider than the other two to allow more water flow from just the one side.
 

al&burke

Active Member
Here is a side view with egg crate in the bubble tower, how does the height of the fuge baffle look to you guys is it too high, can it be 9.5" like the other ones. I was also thinking since this is going to be made out of glass can the first baffle be put on the face of the bubble tower since it is lower so it wouldn't have to be siliconed between the bubble tower and the other side of the sump. Basically both baffle would be the same width and siliconed to the side of the sump. I hope you understand this might make it easier to make.
 

mcmasterson

Member
Hi Al, thanks again for the awesome drawings!
I was thinking that i may need to have a space between bubble tower and first baffle. EVen though the 1st baffle is 1" lower than bubble tower, if they are butted up against each other i suspect i will have spill over from tower into middle section. Even though space is limited, i think i need to give up that 1/2" or so between bubble tower and 1st baffle?
What do you guys think?
 

mcmasterson

Member
If anything i think the bubble trap would need to be lower than the 1st baffle to prevent overflow into middle section. That is of course if they are butted up against each other. Since it is higher and the in case all the flow doesnt escape the one eggcrate side of the trap it will be forced up and over the bubble trap and would go over the 1st baffle with little effort since the baffle is lower than trap.
I anxiously await their replies! I want to start building this bad boy ASAP. It sucks having all the equipment sitting next to the tank in limbo
 

al&burke

Active Member
I hear you, I am trying to find time to convert my 65 gallon reef, I want to drill it and set up a sump, I am tired of cleaning canistor filters. Right now I am setting up a 65 planted tank with a sump.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmasterson http:///forum/thread/381467/eshopps-vs-lifereef-overflow/80#post_3327596
If anything i think the bubble trap would need to be lower than the 1st baffle to prevent overflow into middle section. That is of course if they are butted up against each other. Since it is higher and the in case all the flow doesnt escape the one eggcrate side of the trap it will be forced up and over the bubble trap and would go over the 1st baffle with little effort since the baffle is lower than trap.
I anxiously await their replies! I want to start building this bad boy ASAP. It sucks having all the equipment sitting next to the tank in limbo
It would actually make it worse if the bubble tower were to be shorter than the first baffle. The water will rise up to the height of the first baffle and at that time it would most deffinately flood the bubble tower. I think it would be best to make the bubble tower about and inch higher than the first baffle. That way there will be no where for the water to go but down and through the bubble tower. And in the unlikely event that it didn't work then you'd still have a little room for water to overflow the top of the bubble tower in a worst case scenerio.
 

mcmasterson

Member
I see what you mean, where having it 10+" high would almost leave no chance for the water to flow anywhere but out the bottom, then the skimmer section fills and pours over the 9.5" 1st baffle, right?
I just need to put out my thoughts once more so i can get it straight in my head. So please bear with me.
say the bubble tower is 9" on both sides. The 1st baffle is 9.5". I would have the eggcrate at the bottom of the bubble tower. only 1.5" less in height than what Al has drawn up. Worst case water rises up and if it reached the top of the bubble tower wouldn't it overflow the one side perpendicular to the baffle since tower is .5" shorter thus causing it to run into the skimmer area. Or what would happen is if it did overflow the input water would mix with the skimmed water and then go up and over the baffle. leaving mixed water to go back to tank?
Granted it tower would be 1.5" shorter thus increasing the chance of it not flowing out the eggcrate compared to a 10.5" high bubble tower, but i would imagine i would rather see it overflow into the skimmer section than the return section
If it is higher then worst case is it reaches the top and pour over the top of the bubble tower and part into skimmer area and part over into return area?
Thanks for helping to clarify it in my dome.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmasterson http:///forum/thread/381467/eshopps-vs-lifereef-overflow/80#post_3327832
I see what you mean, where having it 10+" high would almost leave no chance for the water to flow anywhere but out the bottom, then the skimmer section fills and pours over the 9.5" 1st baffle, right? Precisely!
I just need to put out my thoughts once more so i can get it straight in my head. So please bear with me. No sweat! I know the feelin!
say the bubble tower is 9" on both sides. The 1st baffle is 9.5". I would have the eggcrate at the bottom of the bubble tower. only 1.5" less in height than what Al has drawn up. Worst case water rises up and if it reached the top of the bubble tower wouldn't it overflow the one side perpendicular to the baffle since tower is .5" shorter thus causing it to run into the skimmer area. Or what would happen is if it did overflow the input water would mix with the skimmed water and then go up and over the baffle. leaving mixed water to go back to tank? If you were to do this then there would be no point in even installing the bubble tower. Might as well just have the drain drop right into the skimmer section. More of a chance of introducing bubbles into the return section.
Granted it tower would be 1.5" shorter thus increasing the chance of it not flowing out the eggcrate compared to a 10.5" high bubble tower, but i would imagine i would rather see it overflow into the skimmer section than the return section Yep, but why do it that way if you don't have to?

If it is higher then worst case is it reaches the top and pour over the top of the bubble tower and part into skimmer area and part over into return area? Yes...in a worst case scenerio at that point it would become mixed. And more of a chance of introducing bubbles into the return section as a result. But this is worst case scenerio. And your best option in my opinion.
Thanks for helping to clarify it in my dome. Anytime!
 

acrylic51

Active Member
You could run the bubble tower clear to the top.....The whole point as pointed out, is to force the bubbles to the top to pop and force the water then out of the bottom of the bubble tower.....
 

mcmasterson

Member
ok, one last question before i start cutting the glass.
shawn, thanks for the offer on building the bubble tower. I think i am just going with glass since i have it already purchased and cant wait any longer to get this stuff up and running.
So if i am having the tower and 1st baffle butted up against each other with the tower at 10.5" and 1st baffle at 9.5", couldnt i eliminate the parallel tower piece and just use the baffle cut with the 4" of bubble tower at 10.5" tall and the other remaining 6" of the baffle cut to 9.5" Essentially having one piece of glass with the first 4" being at 10.5" for the bubble tower and the other 6" at 9.5". Since i dont have a space between the tower and baffle i dont see why this wont work and allow me to use one piece of glass for that.
Let me know if i am missing something on that thought process.
Thanks
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Sounds like a very doable option if you can manage to cut the glass in that shape without too much trouble. I'm not 100% sure on how it will effect things since I've never tried it. It would be pure speculation on my part as I have never tried to push that kind of water through a sump that size. I'd say try it. At worst case scenerio it doesn't work then it's easy to cut out the baffles and just redo it if need be. I'd be currious to see how it works for you though.
 

mcmasterson

Member
I just got done cutting a couple of the baffles and i dont see any foreseeable way to cut part of it at one height and the other at a different height.
The glass is so brittle that i doubt i could get a clean break at two height levels. So i will just have to make two pieces. Not a big deal since the glass is dirt cheap. I hopefully will have it all put together by the end of this weekend barring any unforseen issues that pop up during the build
 

btwk12

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmasterson http:///forum/thread/381467/eshopps-vs-lifereef-overflow/80#post_3327938
I just got done cutting a couple of the baffles and i dont see any foreseeable way to cut part of it at one height and the other at a different height.
The glass is so brittle that i doubt i could get a clean break at two height levels. So i will just have to make two pieces. Not a big deal since the glass is dirt cheap. I hopefully will have it all put together by the end of this weekend barring any unforseen issues that pop up during the build
im sure a local glass shop will cut that peice for u for next to nothing
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Yep, scorring and snapping strait edges is easy. Shapes with glass is another story. If you have a dremel or rotary tool with a cutting wheel you may be able to make it happen.
 
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