415 Gallon Plywood Tank Build
- Thread starter acrylic51
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2quills
Well-Known Member
Edit...the stain is called B.A.C, not BACK. Kinda hard to catch my typos on the phone sometimes. But yeah the guys down here told me to just bring in some pieces of poplar and they'll test out colors right there in the shop so I thought that was pretty cool. After seeing this stuff in action I can honestly say I don't think I'll ever use another brand again. IMO, the Minwax brand is junk, Cabot is better, but this stuff here makes me think of a real proffesional product, just by the rich color and even penatration that I got with it.
I know some stains actually have some of that wood conditioning sealer already in them, I'm not sure if this stuff does or not but either way when I did my latest samples with it as I used the conditioner before hand it turned out perfect with 2 coats even though I probably could have gotten away with just 1. The second coat really made it POP!!!
I know some stains actually have some of that wood conditioning sealer already in them, I'm not sure if this stuff does or not but either way when I did my latest samples with it as I used the conditioner before hand it turned out perfect with 2 coats even though I probably could have gotten away with just 1. The second coat really made it POP!!!
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/360#post_3310260
Thanks Corey!!!!! What conditioner are you using? What is your final sanding grit going to be?
Using the Cabot brand for the conditioner. I always finish sand with 220. Never really seen the need to go any finer than that when applying a stain. Infact, they say that if you're going for a dark look and want better penetration that you should use 180 grit before you stain. But I never really liked the idea of using 180 for a finish sanding. On my last sample I just used 220 and I'm happy with it so I don't see any need to try anything different in those regaurds.
I did however do the deal with the damp rag to raise the grain a couple of times when I sanded the stand so I'll do the same for the canopy.
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/360#post_3310260
Thanks Corey!!!!! What conditioner are you using? What is your final sanding grit going to be?
Using the Cabot brand for the conditioner. I always finish sand with 220. Never really seen the need to go any finer than that when applying a stain. Infact, they say that if you're going for a dark look and want better penetration that you should use 180 grit before you stain. But I never really liked the idea of using 180 for a finish sanding. On my last sample I just used 220 and I'm happy with it so I don't see any need to try anything different in those regaurds.
I did however do the deal with the damp rag to raise the grain a couple of times when I sanded the stand so I'll do the same for the canopy.
acrylic51
Active Member
Well I took Corey's advice and stopped by the local Sherwin Williams today after work....At first the guy didn't know what I was talking about and then something clicked in his head.....
I looked through their catalog, and I thought I'd start with the Traditional Cherry as Corey did....Man that is some expensive stain, compared to the others!!!!!!!
I did this time pre treat all the sample pieces, and did find the penetration was deeper and more uniform this time around. I think part of the issue with the penetration was that I didn't actually raise the wood grain and sand. There obviously is a difference in the color you will get as well. I did a sample without raising the grain and samples with. I'm not sure if it's the finish, photo or what, but I'm still not seeing the same color rendition as Corey has gotten out of the stain....I am also using Cabot pretreat before applying the stain. I will have to get some sample pics up when finished with the samples....
I did this time pre treat all the sample pieces, and did find the penetration was deeper and more uniform this time around. I think part of the issue with the penetration was that I didn't actually raise the wood grain and sand. There obviously is a difference in the color you will get as well. I did a sample without raising the grain and samples with. I'm not sure if it's the finish, photo or what, but I'm still not seeing the same color rendition as Corey has gotten out of the stain....I am also using Cabot pretreat before applying the stain. I will have to get some sample pics up when finished with the samples....
acrylic51
Active Member
I'm anxious myself.... I applied and wiped it down after about 15 minutes and was impressed. Not wanting a super dark finish I have to play a bit with setup time though. The first sample I really like, going to apply a second coat to the other sample to see the look. Hopefully can get some pics up today!!!!!!
acrylic51
Active Member
That is the Traditional Cherry (BAC) stain from Sherwin Williams....The 1 on the left is 2 coats vs 1 coat on the 1 on the right. The other difference is the sanding grit. The right is done with 220 and the left was 150 grits. The wife chose the 1 on the right when it was in the garage, but when I brought them inside she choose the 1 on the right then....I think she want's or is looking to get it close to the rest of the family room.....
acrylic51
Active Member
Yeah, there's so many variables.... I have the corner stand off of the stand sanded and ready for stain.... Going to do another test run and watch my times and see what adjustments I might need to make....
The Cabit pretreat!!!!! You let it sit for 15 minutes? Did it dry on the surface of the wood? The directions on the can say to let it sit for 5 minutes, but don't allow it to dry; any excess wipe off. I've only been giving it 5 minutes and wiping it down and then staining. I might let it sit 15 minutes and then wipe down and then go to staining. Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure MinWax instructions are a bit different and seems more working time with the pretreat. Let me know your procedure with the pretreat when you get a chance. Thanks!!!!
The Cabit pretreat!!!!! You let it sit for 15 minutes? Did it dry on the surface of the wood? The directions on the can say to let it sit for 5 minutes, but don't allow it to dry; any excess wipe off. I've only been giving it 5 minutes and wiping it down and then staining. I might let it sit 15 minutes and then wipe down and then go to staining. Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure MinWax instructions are a bit different and seems more working time with the pretreat. Let me know your procedure with the pretreat when you get a chance. Thanks!!!!
acrylic51
Active Member
Thanks Corey!!!!!!
I'll have to check for it at Lowes.....Like I said the Cabot just doesn't have a decent work time IMHO....Applying it to a big panel could easily take you 5 minutes or it could easily start to dry in their allotted work time. That could also be a reason were seeing a difference in finish results as well. Thanks.
acrylic51
Active Member
Alright.....did get to Lowes this evening and did pick up a can of the Minwax pretreat and honestly it was less desireable. I didn't get the same color or depth as with using the Cabot pretreat. I guess I will have to play with the Cabot and see how long the actually working time is with the product or even easier might be able to call the manufacturer and get some tech help?????
On a good note, I solved the canopy lid/front issue. Well not really an issue though. The canopy lid was to heavy for the hinges to hold open, and upon a good suggestion of checking out the friction hinge, I picked 1 up tonight while out for $3.00 and the thing works like a charm. Was actually impressed. Not quite what I had in mind, but does exactly what I wanted it to do. I might have to add 1 to the other side of the lid/front once I reinforce the panel to ward off warpage. Will have to get a pic up in a bit......
On a good note, I solved the canopy lid/front issue. Well not really an issue though. The canopy lid was to heavy for the hinges to hold open, and upon a good suggestion of checking out the friction hinge, I picked 1 up tonight while out for $3.00 and the thing works like a charm. Was actually impressed. Not quite what I had in mind, but does exactly what I wanted it to do. I might have to add 1 to the other side of the lid/front once I reinforce the panel to ward off warpage. Will have to get a pic up in a bit......
2quills
Well-Known Member
Well thats crazy, I don't know what else to tell ya lol. Maybe I'll do a another sample or two to make sure it wasn't just the piece that I used. But I thought that I got great penitration with it. Again, I just sanded with 220, nothing special. Emphesis on the fact that I was trying to apply the conditioner very lightly. Other than that, I just don't know. Unless they mixed you up something different than what they mixed me.
acrylic51
Active Member
Thanks Corey!!!! I am actually pleased with the first batch of samples I did. They are the same stain just 1 has 1 coat, the other has 2 coats, and both were sanded with different grits which is obvious from the pictures. As you wrote you applied the conditioner lightly!!!! I in turn have been applying it very liberal. That might be another area to look at when I get home. I'll run another sample run using both conditioners very lightly.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/380#post_3311532
Thanks Corey!!!! I am actually pleased with the first batch of samples I did. They are the same stain just 1 has 1 coat, the other has 2 coats, and both were sanded with different grits which is obvious from the pictures. As you wrote you applied the conditioner lightly!!!! I in turn have been applying it very liberal. That might be another area to look at when I get home. I'll run another sample run using both conditioners very lightly.
Yeah that's the thing about this stuff, Shawn. Personally I think they should classify it for what it is, which is a sealer. It seals the pores in the wood. That's also why you don't want to let it dry completely. And as you already know, softer wood is more porous than dense hardwood and thats where the dark blochiness comes into play because those softer areas drink up alot of stain very fast.
A few years ago I was renovating this guys hotel lobby for him and he asked me to make some new mounts for his deer heads and such as well as some shelves and other little projects. He wanted everything to match and liked the dark look, as did I. So he had a bunch of pine board that he wanted me to use up. But neither one of us liked the blochy uneveness of a dark stain on pine...so thats when I decided to try some of the conditioner (cabot brand). After using it on a few projects I soon began to realize that it was much better to apply a single, very light coat. It still gave me descent penetration with the stain but also prevented the uneveness. At first I was applying it very generously but when I did that I got very little penetration with the stain and had to do about 4-5 coats to get any real color to the finish and it just didn't look quite as good.
Personally, with this stain you could probably get away without the conditioner. But my main concern is that I purchased the wood for my stand and canopy at two seperate places. So I felt it might be better to use the conditioner to get a more even match. And even though poplar is classified as a hardwood, I think we both know that it's softer in some areas than others. Hope that helps.
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/380#post_3311532
Thanks Corey!!!! I am actually pleased with the first batch of samples I did. They are the same stain just 1 has 1 coat, the other has 2 coats, and both were sanded with different grits which is obvious from the pictures. As you wrote you applied the conditioner lightly!!!! I in turn have been applying it very liberal. That might be another area to look at when I get home. I'll run another sample run using both conditioners very lightly.
Yeah that's the thing about this stuff, Shawn. Personally I think they should classify it for what it is, which is a sealer. It seals the pores in the wood. That's also why you don't want to let it dry completely. And as you already know, softer wood is more porous than dense hardwood and thats where the dark blochiness comes into play because those softer areas drink up alot of stain very fast.
A few years ago I was renovating this guys hotel lobby for him and he asked me to make some new mounts for his deer heads and such as well as some shelves and other little projects. He wanted everything to match and liked the dark look, as did I. So he had a bunch of pine board that he wanted me to use up. But neither one of us liked the blochy uneveness of a dark stain on pine...so thats when I decided to try some of the conditioner (cabot brand). After using it on a few projects I soon began to realize that it was much better to apply a single, very light coat. It still gave me descent penetration with the stain but also prevented the uneveness. At first I was applying it very generously but when I did that I got very little penetration with the stain and had to do about 4-5 coats to get any real color to the finish and it just didn't look quite as good.
Personally, with this stain you could probably get away without the conditioner. But my main concern is that I purchased the wood for my stand and canopy at two seperate places. So I felt it might be better to use the conditioner to get a more even match. And even though poplar is classified as a hardwood, I think we both know that it's softer in some areas than others. Hope that helps.
acrylic51
Active Member
Ok!!!! Did another test with just applying a small amount of conditioner
Hideous!!!!!! So I went back to the drawing board again with the Cabot conditioner, generously applying it, and left the stain sit for roughly 10 minutes. Again my test results gave me another acceptable piece as the first batch did. Corey...I know your looking for a dark color; but I'm under the impression your are letting the stain setup a lot longer than 10 minutes??? Truly when I stop and think about it; I'm not looking for a true deep Cherry finish....Kind of wanting it to tie in with the rest of the family room. Even though the tank is at the entrance of the family room still want it to fit in.
Now my eyes shift again to the Shaded Bark????
Not really sure at the moment which way I want to go.....
So to keep my sanity on the stain issue, I've taken on a little side project, that I'm hoping everyone will follow and lend a good bit of critiquing and advice.....No bystanders this time....Corey, Spanko, Spreg, Meowzer, SCSInet, Bang, WangoTango, Nycbob, FloridaJoe. I see you out there from time to time, and everyone else; this is going to be a group effort for 1 of our own fellow reefer here on the board. We all have talents, strengths and weakness, and we need to pull it all together to see if we can pull off 1 amazing project. The thread title will be Flowers sump/fuge build!!!!!!
Now my eyes shift again to the Shaded Bark????
So to keep my sanity on the stain issue, I've taken on a little side project, that I'm hoping everyone will follow and lend a good bit of critiquing and advice.....No bystanders this time....Corey, Spanko, Spreg, Meowzer, SCSInet, Bang, WangoTango, Nycbob, FloridaJoe. I see you out there from time to time, and everyone else; this is going to be a group effort for 1 of our own fellow reefer here on the board. We all have talents, strengths and weakness, and we need to pull it all together to see if we can pull off 1 amazing project. The thread title will be Flowers sump/fuge build!!!!!!