415 Gallon Plywood Tank Build
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acrylic51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/940#post_3402309
Yeah Shawn I just saw the remote control laying there on the piece and was making a funny. This is one case were you can't use the words cheap and plastic in the same sentence.
Ahhhhhh I forgot I had the remote for the stereo sitting on the piece.....I have the stereo mounted up on top of the wall cabinets I built in the garage.....I use to climb up on top of the work bench to change CD's but that got old, so I found the remote.....I had bought the $700 stereo for my daughter, but with the invention of Ipods stereos are "old school"......Does perfect in the garage. Nothing better than a little Metallica, MotorHead, or Slayer playing as you route the panels.......
Did get pics of the jig for the eurobracing now the computer is acting up again and doesn't want to open the pic program. I'm anxious to get the jig mounted on the acrylic and cut away, but worked 8 hours today at "Big Brown" and built the jig, so I'm figuring I'm pushing my luck and will get hot on the routing work tomorrow when I'm fresh and hopefully the computer will cooperate, and will have some good pics for you guys....Actually it was amazing the little bit I routed out of the 1 end panel how it seemed to lighten the weight of it up a bit. The top and bottom pieces are huge, and extremely heavy, so I can imagine gutting the panel out will make it really light compared to the other.....
"Cheap & Plastics" definitely don't belong in the same sentence here!!!!!!!
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/940#post_3402309
Yeah Shawn I just saw the remote control laying there on the piece and was making a funny. This is one case were you can't use the words cheap and plastic in the same sentence.
Ahhhhhh I forgot I had the remote for the stereo sitting on the piece.....I have the stereo mounted up on top of the wall cabinets I built in the garage.....I use to climb up on top of the work bench to change CD's but that got old, so I found the remote.....I had bought the $700 stereo for my daughter, but with the invention of Ipods stereos are "old school"......Does perfect in the garage. Nothing better than a little Metallica, MotorHead, or Slayer playing as you route the panels.......
Did get pics of the jig for the eurobracing now the computer is acting up again and doesn't want to open the pic program. I'm anxious to get the jig mounted on the acrylic and cut away, but worked 8 hours today at "Big Brown" and built the jig, so I'm figuring I'm pushing my luck and will get hot on the routing work tomorrow when I'm fresh and hopefully the computer will cooperate, and will have some good pics for you guys....Actually it was amazing the little bit I routed out of the 1 end panel how it seemed to lighten the weight of it up a bit. The top and bottom pieces are huge, and extremely heavy, so I can imagine gutting the panel out will make it really light compared to the other.....
"Cheap & Plastics" definitely don't belong in the same sentence here!!!!!!!
acrylic51
Active Member
Alright!!!!! Got some work done finally.....Had to dodge my sister about her kitchen island this weekend, but I have more important things to deal with!!!!!! Got the jig cut and made for the top eurobracing.....Here's a few quick shots of the jig and process.....
Once I got my initial layout of the eurobracing done I turned my attention to laying out the radius for the corners for the eurobracing......As most of you know you don't want to use squared corners in your acrylic builds. Radius cutouts distribute stress better than square corners.....
I used a 5 gallon bucket to get my radius for the corners......Smart thinking of my daughter!!!! I then drilled start and stop holes at the ends of my lines.....This also allowed me to get the jig saw in to make the cuts.......
Here's the jig complete!!!!!! Should be super easy to cut the eurobracing now!!!!!!
Once I got my initial layout of the eurobracing done I turned my attention to laying out the radius for the corners for the eurobracing......As most of you know you don't want to use squared corners in your acrylic builds. Radius cutouts distribute stress better than square corners.....
I used a 5 gallon bucket to get my radius for the corners......Smart thinking of my daughter!!!! I then drilled start and stop holes at the ends of my lines.....This also allowed me to get the jig saw in to make the cuts.......
Here's the jig complete!!!!!! Should be super easy to cut the eurobracing now!!!!!!
acrylic51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/960#post_3402664
Looks good. Are you planning on routing it like you did with the slots making more than one pass to get through the material?
Thanks!!!!! Seems such a waste....Made a big jig for 1 cut and now nothing to do with the jig.....Yes that is my game plan from this point out to make several smaller passes with the router than to try to take everything in 1 or 2 big swipes.....I've tried doing big swipes in wood, and it usually doesn't turnout well, so from past experiences, I'm going to practice patience!!!!!!
I did something stupid yesterday in a rush and don't know why???? I was at HD to pick up the MDF since Lowes here doesn't carry full sheets for whatever reason, so I was at HD, and decided I'd pick my bit up there as well to save an extra trip across town....Needless to say I picked up by accident 1/4" shank 1/2" diameter double fluted straight cut bit......Needless to say after 3 passes taking max 1/4" at a shot, I got a bad vibration in the router, and immediately stopped and after close inspection, the router bit self destructed.....I'll have to to get a pic of the bit, if I can dig it out of the trash, but took about 1/2" out of the 1 cutting edge of the bit?????
Pissed to say the least.....All morning I contemplated about returning the 1/4" for 1/2" shank, but finally convinced myself that I'd be alright....Shouldn't have 2nd guessed my thinking.....Needless to say I headed back out to Lowes this time to get a replacement bit; only this time in 1/2" shank.....
Here's the start of the cut process for the eurobracing........
The bad thing about it, I have a big 8' x 4' table off to the right that I could have cleared off, to use, but was to lazy.....So I set 2x4's underneath the acrylic panel with the MDF jig clamped on top......Hats off to Al.....He hinted to me about using my router bushing as my guide.....Worked like a charm Al Thanks!!!!!
Just another shot.....Thank goodness for Lowes being open late on Sundays.....I did get the eurobracing panel completely cut out.....Once I did my cut through with the straight bit and bushing, I swapped over bits to my flush cut bit, and trimmed it flush to the jig......I'll have to get pics of the completed eurobracing panel tomorrow....Have to get the garage cleaned up and stuff put away....To many piles of shavings all over the floor.....I thought that the panel would really get lighter??? It did, but doesn't seem a whole lot IMO!!!!!!
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/960#post_3402664
Looks good. Are you planning on routing it like you did with the slots making more than one pass to get through the material?
Thanks!!!!! Seems such a waste....Made a big jig for 1 cut and now nothing to do with the jig.....Yes that is my game plan from this point out to make several smaller passes with the router than to try to take everything in 1 or 2 big swipes.....I've tried doing big swipes in wood, and it usually doesn't turnout well, so from past experiences, I'm going to practice patience!!!!!!
I did something stupid yesterday in a rush and don't know why???? I was at HD to pick up the MDF since Lowes here doesn't carry full sheets for whatever reason, so I was at HD, and decided I'd pick my bit up there as well to save an extra trip across town....Needless to say I picked up by accident 1/4" shank 1/2" diameter double fluted straight cut bit......Needless to say after 3 passes taking max 1/4" at a shot, I got a bad vibration in the router, and immediately stopped and after close inspection, the router bit self destructed.....I'll have to to get a pic of the bit, if I can dig it out of the trash, but took about 1/2" out of the 1 cutting edge of the bit?????
Here's the start of the cut process for the eurobracing........
The bad thing about it, I have a big 8' x 4' table off to the right that I could have cleared off, to use, but was to lazy.....So I set 2x4's underneath the acrylic panel with the MDF jig clamped on top......Hats off to Al.....He hinted to me about using my router bushing as my guide.....Worked like a charm Al Thanks!!!!!
Just another shot.....Thank goodness for Lowes being open late on Sundays.....I did get the eurobracing panel completely cut out.....Once I did my cut through with the straight bit and bushing, I swapped over bits to my flush cut bit, and trimmed it flush to the jig......I'll have to get pics of the completed eurobracing panel tomorrow....Have to get the garage cleaned up and stuff put away....To many piles of shavings all over the floor.....I thought that the panel would really get lighter??? It did, but doesn't seem a whole lot IMO!!!!!!
acrylic51
Active Member
Ok guys need a bit of advice!!!!!!!
Trying to layout the size of the external overflow box.....I know the overflow box has to be a minimum of 31"L. Why??? Each slot is 12"L and there is a 6" solid piece between the two slots. So basically 24"+6"=30", and adding an inch in for margin of error. Not really sure on the height of the overflow box as well. I'm contemplating 10"H???? The width I'm considering is 7"W????? So basically the dimensions I'm considering for the overflow box will be 31"L x 10"H X 8"W......???????
I've been practicing quite a bit on my joints, and I know Corey is tired of getting ready for work looking at "joint" pics on his phone......
I've been having an issue with getting good seams.....I've never had an issue in the past, but this 1" material is another beast. I get fantastic coverage in the middle of the seam, but it seems the edges don't like to take the solvent. The edges after an 8 hour period appear to be dry while the rest of the joint is perfect. Some might look at it and say it's fine, but from a structural standpoint, and that I'm anal, the joint has to be perfectly wet looking.....
After numerous test joints yesterday, I had been following the normal procedure, but varying the pin depth, size, and soak time I was leaving the pins inserted......Nothing changed the edges of the joints. I prep all my edges the same way...starting at 220 wet/dry, 600 wet/dry, then 1200 wet/dry sandpaper, and then wiping down the Denatured Alcohol........
Frustration setting in I grabbed the bottle of regular rubbing alcohol and figured what the heck.....I again prepped another piece the exact same way.......Little to my surprise the joint was all but perfect!!!!!!!! Other than a tiny bubble on both ends where I had pulled the pins hastily. After about 1/2 hour the joint still looked good; which was surprising since the others always turned south about that point.....Needless to say I was on the phone again with Corey picking his brain what he used to prep his edges......He to seemed to have the same issue with his joints. I'm going to play a little longer with pin sizes and soak time, but have had pretty good looking seams using sewing pins and letting the material soak about 1 minute before pulling pins. I was using twisty ties, but will make that decision in the next couple of days before I actually hit the first panel.....
Again guys need your input on the overflow size?????
I've been practicing quite a bit on my joints, and I know Corey is tired of getting ready for work looking at "joint" pics on his phone......
After numerous test joints yesterday, I had been following the normal procedure, but varying the pin depth, size, and soak time I was leaving the pins inserted......Nothing changed the edges of the joints. I prep all my edges the same way...starting at 220 wet/dry, 600 wet/dry, then 1200 wet/dry sandpaper, and then wiping down the Denatured Alcohol........
Frustration setting in I grabbed the bottle of regular rubbing alcohol and figured what the heck.....I again prepped another piece the exact same way.......Little to my surprise the joint was all but perfect!!!!!!!! Other than a tiny bubble on both ends where I had pulled the pins hastily. After about 1/2 hour the joint still looked good; which was surprising since the others always turned south about that point.....Needless to say I was on the phone again with Corey picking his brain what he used to prep his edges......He to seemed to have the same issue with his joints. I'm going to play a little longer with pin sizes and soak time, but have had pretty good looking seams using sewing pins and letting the material soak about 1 minute before pulling pins. I was using twisty ties, but will make that decision in the next couple of days before I actually hit the first panel.....
Again guys need your input on the overflow size?????
2quills
Well-Known Member
Alright Shawn, experiment #1...I've got a piece sitting here in front of me with two smaller pieces glued to it. One joint was done with denatured and the other with 70% isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol). So far the denatured joint is looking better but neither is drying out along the edges like I've seen before, and by now they usually would. These pieces were just strait cut with the diablo blade, no other prep done at all. Only dry spots I see are from the grooves made by the blade. I'll try some more tommorow with routed pieces and then routed and wet sanded.
Not sure what to tell ya on the overflow box. Maybe just a matter of personal choice. I would think a bigger box would give you a little more water volume to the system but probably not much to make a real big difference. What size plumbing are you looking at?
Not sure what to tell ya on the overflow box. Maybe just a matter of personal choice. I would think a bigger box would give you a little more water volume to the system but probably not much to make a real big difference. What size plumbing are you looking at?
al&burke
Active Member
Shawn one reason I would see if the solvent is not getting across the whole seam if the joint is not perfectly flat or square. Are you wet sanding the edges that you are glueing. The material being 1" thick is tough to get perfectly flat if you are wet sanding it. Also the amount of solvent you are putting on the edge will effect the quality of the joint, maybe you are not putting enough on.
acrylic51
Active Member
Thanks Corey!!!!! Have no idea what the deal is with the alcohol. Maybe a humidity issue??? Switched glues and every thing. As far as plumbing of course I'll be using BeanAnimals design. Plumbing size will be 1.5 all the way around, so overflow needs to be able to house the plumbing.
acrylic51
Active Member
You know Al we had thought about the edge not being flat/square, but did check an pretty close..... We also had thought about not enough solvent as well. The odd thing is, when I switched from Denatured Alcohol to rubbing alcohol using same edge prep procedures and pin method totally different results. The rubbing alcohol joints are perfect????
acrylic51
Active Member
Forgot to mention in an earlier post, that I've drawn the conclusion that the pin method is definitely the ticket for thicker material. With just putting the piece in place and gluing it obviously doesn't give the material time to soften and bond/embed itself to the other piece. It appears the piece somewhat floats instead of sinking into the other piece.
With the pin method and a good soak time about 60 seconds it seems the pieces actually embed nicely and your only concern is getting your pins out without creating marks in the material. If you leave the pins to long it will leave marks.
With the pin method and a good soak time about 60 seconds it seems the pieces actually embed nicely and your only concern is getting your pins out without creating marks in the material. If you leave the pins to long it will leave marks.
acrylic51
Active Member
Still no concrete evidence on the issue.... The house is air conditioned.... The family likes to keep it super cool. I know there's been repeated info on WeldOn 3 having cloudy joints with humidity. Mine aren't cloudy; just a hair around the entire panel is dry??? Seems like the glue evaporated quicker in that area? I was a little heavy on the solvent so pretty sure enough applied???
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/960#post_3404312
Our shop uses strictly methalene chloride to melt the joints. Weld on is a gap filler, but we only put air through our models totally different with water sitting in it.
That's one of the main ingredients in the weld on product. Is that what you used on your sump Al is strait methylene chloride? Which weld on do you guys use for gap filling?
Shawn, any updates? Did you try what we talked about earlier?
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/960#post_3404312
Our shop uses strictly methalene chloride to melt the joints. Weld on is a gap filler, but we only put air through our models totally different with water sitting in it.
That's one of the main ingredients in the weld on product. Is that what you used on your sump Al is strait methylene chloride? Which weld on do you guys use for gap filling?
Shawn, any updates? Did you try what we talked about earlier?
al&burke
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/960#post_3404375
That's one of the main ingredients in the weld on product. Is that what you used on your sump Al is strait methylene chloride? Which weld on do you guys use for gap filling?
Shawn, any updates? Did you try what we talked about earlier?
We use weld on 16 for gap filling and yes I only used methylene chloride for my sump and fuge
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/960#post_3404375
That's one of the main ingredients in the weld on product. Is that what you used on your sump Al is strait methylene chloride? Which weld on do you guys use for gap filling?
Shawn, any updates? Did you try what we talked about earlier?
We use weld on 16 for gap filling and yes I only used methylene chloride for my sump and fuge
acrylic51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/960#post_3404390
We use weld on 16 for gap filling and yes I only used methylene chloride for my sump and fuge
WeldOn 16 produces tons of micro bubbles.....I know it's due to the solvent skinning and shrinking as it cures.....Really is a great solvent for structural and aesthetics. Some say if you do really thin coats layers it does bubble as bad. I have in the past used it in think layers, with the joint/seam sitting at a 45, and had decent success....
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/960#post_3404375
That's one of the main ingredients in the weld on product. Is that what you used on your sump Al is strait methylene chloride? Which weld on do you guys use for gap filling?
Shawn, any updates? Did you try what we talked about earlier?
Yes I did try it Corey!!!!!!! Didn't see much change, but was worth the shot......I did tell you and I'll let everyone else know, that the problem really seems to be that the edge was not perfectly flat.....We had tossed that idea around early on in the troubleshooting, but I kind of threw it out of the picture figuring I couldn't have taken the edge off so easily with 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper.....Well obviously I did!!!!!
I played a hunch and some frustration, and like I had mentioned borrowed a friends planer; similar to a jointer, but this is hand held.....I made 2 quick passes on some scrap/test pieces, and low and behold the joints are perfect.....Not wanting to believe that was the case I probably did another 10 test pieces with the planer, and all were perfect except my where the heads pulled off my pins, when it occurred, so needless to say I will be prepping the edges with the planer from here out......
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/960#post_3404390
We use weld on 16 for gap filling and yes I only used methylene chloride for my sump and fuge
WeldOn 16 produces tons of micro bubbles.....I know it's due to the solvent skinning and shrinking as it cures.....Really is a great solvent for structural and aesthetics. Some say if you do really thin coats layers it does bubble as bad. I have in the past used it in think layers, with the joint/seam sitting at a 45, and had decent success....
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/960#post_3404375
That's one of the main ingredients in the weld on product. Is that what you used on your sump Al is strait methylene chloride? Which weld on do you guys use for gap filling?
Shawn, any updates? Did you try what we talked about earlier?
Yes I did try it Corey!!!!!!! Didn't see much change, but was worth the shot......I did tell you and I'll let everyone else know, that the problem really seems to be that the edge was not perfectly flat.....We had tossed that idea around early on in the troubleshooting, but I kind of threw it out of the picture figuring I couldn't have taken the edge off so easily with 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper.....Well obviously I did!!!!!
I played a hunch and some frustration, and like I had mentioned borrowed a friends planer; similar to a jointer, but this is hand held.....I made 2 quick passes on some scrap/test pieces, and low and behold the joints are perfect.....Not wanting to believe that was the case I probably did another 10 test pieces with the planer, and all were perfect except my where the heads pulled off my pins, when it occurred, so needless to say I will be prepping the edges with the planer from here out......