415 Gallon Plywood Tank Build

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/980#post_3405642
i'm following you about easing the backside of the cut outs!!!! Do you think 2" is to small of a standout from the back panel??
Where you at Al??? I know you have something up your sleeve?!?!?!
In this case I don't think it would be to small. Only once you got down to an area inside of the over flow that was smaller than your cut outs would I think you had to worry. Only thing I see as being any bit of a down side to using this type of overflow would be the loss of surface skimming compared to a completely open top all the way around the o/f.

 

[al&burke]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/980#post_3405642
i'm following you about easing the backside of the cut outs!!!! Do you think 2" is to small of a standout from the back panel??
Where you at Al??? I know you have something up your sleeve?!?!?!
I left my computer at work unfortunately, IT had to do something to it tonight, probably checking up on me - I do have something up my sleeve I don't know if you will like it but here is what I am thinking - if you wanted a strainer in your overflow I would make one out of acrylic that would slip over the slot you have going to the external overflow. I see that you are only going to leave 2 inches from the back wall it would be square with acrylic strips glued on, all you would have to do is glue a strip on the overflow and the wall of the tank so you could position it. Now my only question is do you have access to pull it out, I understand from your posts that you have a large eurobrace. Just thinking out load Shawn. And yes I promise to do those calculations tomorrow night.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/980#post_3405647
In this case I don't think it would be to small. Only once you got down to an area inside of the over flow that was smaller than your cut outs would I think you had to worry. Only thing I see as being any bit of a down side to using this type of overflow would be the loss of surface skimming compared to a completely open top all the way around the o/f.
I know what your saying, but honestly I don't think I'm loosing any skimming efficiency. Technically a 3 sided overflow would have more surface skimming area than an open slot......The overflow would be the same dimension as the back wall, but the slot would just be cut higher. Not sure if I'm confusing, but it would be an identical cut as the back panel, just it would be 1" from the top of the inner box........So if the inner box has (2) 12" cutouts and the back panel has the same cutouts how could there be a lose of efficiency?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/980#post_3405665
I left my computer at work unfortunately, IT had to do something to it tonight, probably checking up on me - I do have something up my sleeve I don't know if you will like it but here is what I am thinking - if you wanted a strainer in your overflow I would make one out of acrylic that would slip over the slot you have going to the external overflow. I see that you are only going to leave 2 inches from the back wall it would be square with acrylic strips glued on, all you would have to do is glue a strip on the overflow and the wall of the tank so you could position it. Now my only question is do you have access to pull it out, I understand from your posts that you have a large eurobrace. Just thinking out load Shawn. And yes I promise to do those calculations tomorrow night.
I think I'm following you Al.......Your suggesting gluing 2 smaller strips kinda as guides over the top & bottom of the cutouts in the back panel??? Kind of like a door track and then the center cover would slide into place over the cutouts?? If I'm following you somewhat I like the idea, but not really into using teeth in the overflow!!!!!!
You had also asked about being able to access the covers, if needed I could notch the euro bracing(open it up a bit).....I was thinking a small slot in the eurobracing to allow nothing more than my hand to get to the inner box....

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/376802/415-gallon-plywood-tank-build/980#post_3405681
I know what your saying, but honestly I don't think I'm loosing any skimming efficiency. Technically a 3 sided overflow would have more surface skimming area than an open slot......The overflow would be the same dimension as the back wall, but the slot would just be cut higher. Not sure if I'm confusing, but it would be an identical cut as the back panel, just it would be 1" from the top of the inner box........So if the inner box has (2) 12" cutouts and the back panel has the same cutouts how could there be a lose of efficiency?
Simply saying the design of the internal box. Two 12" slots would be 24" of linear surface skimming around. Where if you did a box that was completely open on top you would have the full length of the front and sides of the box for surface skimming area. Honestly don't think it's a huge difference either way, That was the only downside I could see if you even want to call it a downside.
A box like this is what I'm talking about, Bean Animals....more linear surface skimming area as apposed to slots. The slots on the side panel wouldn't matter since those would now be considered drains.

 

[acrylic51]

Cool Deal!!!!! I started looking at his thread this morning, and never got back to it, but I understand what your saying....That pic also gives me other ideas for my tunzes, but not sure if I have enough room.....I got side tracked this morning thinking about CL vs the wave box, and still want to utilize the tunzes, but think the better alternative will be the CL with the OM......But that pic will get me headed back to the garage and mocking again!!!!!

 

[al&burke]

Shawn I put a quick drawing together, what is your expected system flow. I think if you went with an overflow box as drawn below you would have potentially 3/4 of an inch of liquid going over the slot. If you take the area of the two 12 long slots = 28.44 sq in. THe internal overflow slots are 9.25 inches long so 9.25 x 4 = 37inches so to equal the area of the 12 inch long slots you would calculate 37 x height = 28.444 sq in therefore height = 0.768 inches. This is based total liquid flow through the two 12 inch slots. I think you might need to go a bit deeper. What are the inside dimensions of your tank?
Addition - based on your pump your flow will be anywhere from 1900 to 3000 GPH - the two 12 long slots naturally should drain 7400 GPH based on the height and dimensions
Another calculation I found on line equates to 0.40 inches of water over the slot.
Q = 0.66 x cB x (2g)[sup]0.66 x H[sup]1.5[/sup]
where;
Q = water flow rate, m3[/sup]/sec
B = width of the weir, metres*
c = discharge coefficient, average 0.62
g = gravitational constant, 9.81
H = Height of the water over the weir, measured behind the weir edge, m

 

[acrylic51]

You are a wiz!!!!! :hi: I did a quick measurement of the tank panels last night and they are actually 48 1/4" wide. The slots cut in the side panel are 1 1/4" down from the top of the panel and are 12" L x 2..... The slots are 1 1/2" wide if I recall correctly!!!!!
Only started gabbing internal box but, looking at dimensions roughly 36"Lx 4"Hx 4"W. HTH with the calculations!!!

 

[al&burke]

If anything the slot being a bit wider my calculation is conservative, or the rise over the weir will be lower since the weir will be wider. I wish I had a real accurate flow meter I would mess around a bit with overflow design. I think you should be alright with what you were thinking of going with though. What do you think Shawn?

 

[acrylic51]

Thanks again Al!!!!!! I did sit a bit and used the calculator, and the origial slots should definitely handle the flow......Using the calculation of 3x - 5x turnover rate through the sump, I'd be around 1,660gph.....With using the 1 1/2" bulkheads should be right in the ballpark....Could probably push alittle more out of it, but not really wanting crazy flow through the sump.
Ok Al and Corey....finally walked down to the fishroom and took some good; accurate measurements on the overflow slots.....From the top of the panel they are exactly 2 3/4" to the bottom of the slots.....The top of the slots are 1 1/2" from the very top of the panel. The slot is 1 1/4". They are 12" wide, with a 6" solid piece separating the slots.
I'm proposing putting an internal box inside measuring coming out from the side panel about 2" and come up roughly 4", and roughly 3/4" under the eurobracing......I think even if I open the pump wide I'd get a little rise, but not enough to overflow the tank....Your thoughts?????

 

[al&burke]

Hey Shawn, your slot is going to be wider than the calculations I made I think you will be fine at 3/4" below the eurobracing. I used even a lrager flow than what you posted I think I went to maximum flow at about 4' head on the pump. You will be lucky if the water rises 1/4" over the slot.

 

[acrylic51]

You know....Honestly I think your right......That was the reason for the last minute change with the internal box.....I had first calculated there would be a rise, but the more I thought about it after the cut, and through chatting with Corey, I honestly doubted there would be much of a rise......The internal box doesn't have to be far from the wall since it really serves no real purpose other than raising the water level, but does aid in service skimming as Corey reminded me.....
Did get all the sides glued together.......Did the last end last night, and as we speak has cured for a full 24hrs, which I've been faithful to letting each joint sit 24 hrs.....Now just trying to round up extra muscle to get the bottom panel in the house and down the stairs into the family room and up onto the stand, and then lay the tank down and start putting the pins in ready to glue the bottom......Will probably try to get my buddy to stay around, and as I glue go behind me and start pulling the pins.....There is NO WAY I can glue the entire perimeter of the tank and get the pins pulled in a timely fashion.......
Overflow is already glued together, and just need to get it out to the garage and route everything flush.....

 

[al&burke]

So can I ask what is your expected time of filling this baby with SW - ETFTBWSW LOL

 

[2quills]

Sounds good. We'll be here anxiously awaiting pics of the finished product. I really don't think you're going to have a problem with that overflow. Sounds more than big enough with those size slots.

 

[acrylic51]

Sounds good. We'll be here anxiously awaiting pics of the finished product. I really don't think you're going to have a problem with that overflow. Sounds more than big enough with those size slots.
So can I ask what is your expected time of filling this baby with SW - ETFTBWSW LOL
Should hopefully have some updated pics of progress this evening!!!! Wa able to muscle the bottom panel into the house to the top of the stair landing to the family room, but had to wait on help to make the 10 steps down. The piece was a little to heavy an awkward for 1 person to handle.... Did get the bottom panel glued into place last night about 9, and as usual I'm going to weight the 24 hrs before actually handling it again. Joints I'm reasonably pleased with. I did find what my issue was with the glued joint!!!! Waited a bit to long pulling pins, which allows the material to really soften an upon pulling pins it spurts some acrylic chunks to the outer edges of the joints, but overal very well pleased.
I would give a quick pointer though to whoever decides to take on a build with thick material and when gluing long seams such as the bottom. Have an extra person handy.... By the time you get to the end of the joint the other person should actually have start pulling. The other tip is that it would be easier IMO when gluing the bottom or top on a project to glue 1 side at a time instead of all 4 at 1 shot. I'd still set my pins in place on all 4 edges, but only glue 1 at a time. Just seems it would be easier, but I guess if you have an extra set of hands it could be done rather easy, but that's where experience comes into play!!!!
Al.... I'm getting super anxious myself. The completion date of the tank is tentatively set for the 24th of August. I need to get the bottom trimmed flush, and there is some minor details I will discuss on the eurobracing in a bit, but once that's in place, I will head advice and give a full 7 days before it sees any water.....

 

[acrylic51]

A little progress today!!!! Sunday I had glued the bottom panel in place and today finally started routing all the edges flush. I have 2 edges left to finish and should be ready to turn my full attention to the eurobracing!!!! It is complete, but have to do some important cutting and fabrication if I want to tie the eurobracing into the over flow.
Kicking around ideas as far as returns from the sump back to the tank. I have an idea or thought to employ an OM 4Way for the job???? Being that the return pump has already been decided upon looking to maximize flow on the return side. Pump choice of course is the external Reeflo snapper/dart hybrid pump. Looking for other ideas suggestions?????

 

[meowzer]

LOL...this thread has about the same amount of posts that I have...HEEHEE
I can't wait till this baby is done

 

[acrylic51]

Me too:laughing: I'll have to take some pics!!!! You should see the fish room now. Acrylic shavings everywhere. I just realized my router doesn't have a dust port on the fixed base. I'll have to look at the plunge base and if so swap bases....
Kind of beside myself. Gonna have to order WeldOn 40 and wait to tackle the eurobracing. I will have to fill everyone in on what is going on and needs to be done. I was busy rotating the tank around on the stand and was so nervous!!!! Like a little girl at her first dance!!!:rotfl: Nerves were getting to me and finally had to man handle it a bit. Definitely lighter than the plywood tank.
Need to get some input from the gallery as far as what they would do for returns and CL(2)

 

[2quills]

What about coming up the back, up and over the tank and coming through the brace for the returns? You could keep them close to the surface and wouldn't hardly be noticeable when viewing the tank?

 

[acrylic51]

That's an idea!!!!! That could/would minimize some backflow when pumps are off. What's the biggest loc line they make Corey? Another option for nozzles would be the omnipresent nozzles by OM, but possibly woul like to split the bulkhead into 2. Return line will be 1.5", so splitting the line wouldn't be an issue. Is the OM products ok to link?

 

[2quills]

Unfortunately loc line only comes in 1/4, 1/2, 3/ 4 or 2.5". So I don't know if they'd be what you want to go with or not unless you were to split the line down and end up with like 4 - 3/4".