415 Gallon Plywood Tank Build

[acrylic51]

I know you guys think I'm crazy, but I've been contemplating another aspect of the build of the tank as well. I can't decide what color I want to tint the final coat or 2 of the epoxy. 3 of the choices are black, white, or blue?? I know alot of people aren't fans of backgrounds, but this one kinda caught my eye. I have also thought of using a background and embed it in the epoxy. Haven't tried to see if would work, but can't see why it wouldn't. Actually I haven't seen the background in person, and might not actually like it when I do, but it caught my eye...
Here's a quick pic of the background. Please excuse the black background on the top. The one I'm looking at is the blue one on the bottom.....Again need your suggestions and input.
Should I just tint the entire inside of the tank? If so what color?
Should I tint a portion of the tank inside and use the background on the back wall of the tank?

 

[spanko]

1. Glass or Acrylic ?
You are gonna scratch anything if you get any spec of sand in whatever you use to clean the viewing pane. If you use glass, you cannot buff the scratch out where as you can with acrylic. You have already addressed pricing. I am not sure if your comparison was using starfire against cell cast acrylic. (which seem to be the best of both options from what I have read)
2. Bare Bottom ? Why?
I loved the bare bottom when I had my tank that way. No matter what there is always one place where the detritus gets deposited on the bottom and at that point is easily siphoned out. You could always paint the bottom white to give the illusion of sand. Anything will eventually get covered with coralline anyway.
3. Faux Sand Bed ? Why?
No experience here, hence no input.
4. SSB (Shallow Sand Bed) Why?
Will at least give the availability of addition surface area for biofiltration, a habitat for flora and fauna, looks realistic.
In my tank I have gone back to a about 1-2 in sandbed after having bare bottom. This was done only to provide a habitat for a Bali Tiger Jawfish. If I did not havewant that critter I would probably still have a bare bottom tank.
Not a fan of faux backgrounds and again depending on your desire to clean will get covered with coralline eventually anyway.

 

[2quills]

1. Glass or Acrylic ? If it's feasable to do I like the thought of using starphire glass. Glass for it's longevity...I do know you can buff scratches out of glass as well but since I have no experience with it yet I can't really say if it's harder or easier to do than on acrylic. I will be trying it soon on my glass tank so I'll let you know how it turns out. I've seen scratch resistant acrylic sold on some sites for significantly more money, but since I have no experience with that either I can't really comment on it. I just think if it were my decision I would go with starphire.
2. Bare Bottom ? Why? Just...not crazy with barebottom tanks. Doesn't look natural to me.
3. Faux Sand Bed ? Why? I like the idea...would be curious to see how it looked when it was finished.
4. SSB (Shallow Sand Bed) Why? Yes, I like the look of sand in a tank...it's more natural IMO and yes it does provide more surface area for bio filtration. Your inverts may apreciate you more for it.
I actually have that exact same backround on my tank...I use the blue side. Am really happy with the look but it's like Spanko said...eventually it's going to get covered with coralline anyway. Once my tank is drilled I am going to just paint mine
and try and match some of those blue colors that are in the backround...may try and mix em up a bit. If it gets covered then it gets covered...so be it. But then again I have never tried to epoxy a backround to a tank...that may actually make it look alot more vivid inside the tank. Hmmm......

 

[acrylic51]

Thanks guys !!!!! Still wanting to hear more input from the others out there though. I respect your opinions and comments greatly.
I've heard it's possible to buff scratches out of glass, but IMO you have to do something alittle more drastic IMO to scratch a glass tank, and couldn't imagine it being super easy to work the scratches out of glass, whereas as acrylic would be easier IMO.....I'm considering Starphire glass for the mere option of having sand inside the tank. I think my biggest issue is having the glass shipped in which adds to the cost and the anticipation seeing if it arrives in 1 piece. Where as the acrylic I can drive 15 minutes and get exactly what I want and no shipping.
Sand or no sand???? I've always done a SSB, have never been a fan or believer in the DSB theory. IMHO, there is a place for a DSB and I would rather run it remotely than take up space in my DT, but with a SSB you guys are correct you will still get your nitrification/denitrification process taking place within the top 3/4" of any sandbed. I'm just trying to avoid having a potential sand storm with the (3) Tunzes in the wavebox, and the use of the OM in conjunction, so I am planning alot of flow inside the DT.
I guess I'm considering the background not for long term, because you guys are correct as far as it being covered eventually, but I guess I'm looking at the begining stages. I have also thought about tinting the epoxy white for the bottom, but didn't want to do the complete inside of the tank white...I don't think there will be any issue with laminating/epoxing the background into the tank. I figure, once the epoxy is tacky I could position the background in place and then as that coat sets up I can pour the next coat over top working any bubble out for an ultra smooth finish, and I do think it might add alittle something to the look with it actually inside the tank......
I will have to post some pics of the proposed OM and fittings I'm planning on using to get the water moving.....
Come on guys lets hear it!!!!!!!

 

[acrylic51]

All righty....in an earlier post I had briefly touched on the external wavebox, and water movement within the DT itself. I had also outlined how I'm planning the build of the eurobracing of the top of the tank to incorporate different alternatives for water movement, but the basic design would allow me to employ both methods I'm considering.......
The first method/way I'm considering is using a product called OceansMotions. I currently use the OM on my 240, and have been really please with the movement of water it brings......There are several models of the OM and currently I'm running the OM 8Way. I use a HammerHead pump to drive the OM......On this tank I am considering using multiply units and the returns will be capped off with either OM flex nozzles which are good for certain areas, and I also use OM revs......
My other option still on the table is to use more Tunze PH's.....I've kind of taken this idea from JarHead over at --....He had made acrylic mounts to mount his Tunzes in the upper corners of his tank and the mounts are moveable or adjustable if my memory serves me correct. I'll have to dig up pics of his mounts to show.
Also in my previous posts I had shown or given an idea of how I plan to plumb the OM into the bottom of the tank given me excellent water movement at the bottom as well. Here again in this area OM would be utilized and the different combinations of nozzles could be employed....
Here are a couple pics to show the mounting area in the eurobracing and the different components of the OM....

 

[acrylic51]

The OM pictured is on my 240 which is the 8Way....the input to the OM is 1.5, and the outlets (8) are 1". There are 3 different versions of drums that can be interchanged within the unit. 1 version as the ports opening 1 at a time, another version has alternating ports open, and another version has opposite ports opening at the same time....
The 4th pic is actually a pic of a "rev". These are can be a PITA to use...You have to have the right space to mount them and they have to be mounted correctly within the tank to make them function properly. You can't really see from the pic, but they are threaded at the top where my fingers are in the way. How they would be mounted is the PVC pipe would drop down into 1 of the 4 holes shown in pic 1 in the corners of the eurobracing...When the revs are mounted they would actually not be in view when viewing the tank. They would actually be up out of the water in the tank. What happens is when, water pressure is applied to the line that is connected to the "rev" the water pressure would force the unit down into the water with a rotation, and water would squirt out of it's ports. When water pressure is taken away the unit will lift up and index 1 click and out of the water, and this process repeats itself over and over again, with the output nozzles of the "revs" always spraying in a different direction in the tank. There are several versions of these units as well. Some have 1 output, others several, and at different angles, and they also make "revs" that can be mounted on the bottom with their nozzles or outputs pointed in an up direction directing water upward and out.
The last pic in the series, is of their flex nozzles which are super nice, because you can angle these things so many ways it's unreal to get the water to where you want it.....
My other option would be to go with my Tunze PH's and again where the 4 holes are located in the top corners of the eurobracing of the tank, I could fab up acrylic adjustable mounting brackets, and mount the PH's in corners shooting across the tank, kind of like cross firing.

 

[acrylic51]

All right....Been dragging my feet and progression kind of slow this week, hectic work schedule and all. As I had mentioned earlier that I had been contemplating a rounded corner which is actually extended out int the viewing area of the tank. I've started the ends for the corners of the stand that are in the corners against the walls.
I want to do some type of rounded corner, with curved door to follow the contour, and kind of make like a little display area for all the little knickknacks my youngest daughter and grand daughter seem to buy me. I've made a "crude" jig, and have been bending 1/4" stock with easy, and not much luck with 3/4", but I've rushed alot of the practice stuff I've done in this area. I know another method is to cut kerfs in the back side of the pieces, but since the door will open, it would be kind of unsightly to see all the little cuts. I have looked into steam bending as well.
Looking for some feedback as to which course of action to take.....Should I abandon my crazy notion to have a rounded display end or stick with the traditional squared corners?
Here's a couple pics of "crude" mock up so far...

 

[2quills]

I don't know man...I'm with ya on the rounded corner but I wonder how much space you would actually be able to make for a display especially if it's going to be covered by a door without it being a little to gaudy looking. Maybe it would have been better to have incorporated the curves into the design before the frame was finished and the skin was put on? Then again, I may just not be visualizing the same things you are in your ideas.
If your looking to bend 3/4...maybe you could cut kerfs in some 1/2" and laminate over the kerfs with 1/4" and fill the tops with wood filler. Just an idea.
Either way, as it stands now...I think the stand is looking great, regaurdless. Can't wait to see it finished. Is the tank going to be viewable from the front and side or just the front panel?

 

[acrylic51]

Thanks.....The skin isn't really attached....I have serious issues, when I make my trips to Lowes, HD or WoodCraft for my materials.....the shopping list always disappears from the time I leave the house to the store, so somehow I seem to forget something....

The "skin" will be attached using, what I'm going to call hitch pins....Basically pins with little bearings, that press in once they go into a "sleeve". I want the "skin" to be totally removeable if; for whatever reason I need full access under the stand from the front.
I totally understand what you mean about actually space inside the "supposed display area". That thought did cross my mind when I started mocking and looking at actual space. I guess I just wanted to push the "limits"??? I have already started mocking up the actual corner pieces for the ends against the walls. My intial thought was to make them fluted? I was actually going to run the panels through the router to flute them to make them look like fluted casing??? Still a thought though....Still can't actually decide on molding....I've stopped I think everyday before work and looked again and again and still can't decide....I might go to WoodCraft tomorrow and look at the different profiles and see if something catches my eyes.
Yes the tank will be viewable from both the front and left end of the tank. The right end of the tank will appear to disappear inside the wall. That is the end that will have the external wavebox. That way the wavebox is actually inside the fishroom, and to the

[hr]
eye you won't notice it. That is where I'm still trying to decide if I'm going to use glass or acrylic for the panels??? The only thing I have set in concrete is the end (right side) where the external wavebox will be, will be done out of acrylic(black). That way the wavebox can be built directly into the panel, and you probably won't even notice the grating from the Tunzes mounted behind the panel.....

 

[acrylic51]

The week started off not very productive.....I sit at work and think about all the things I can work on or plan to get accomplished, and then you pull into the driveway and open the garage, and the coffees brewing.......

......Got pretty busy this weekend working on the tank, splitting my time between the tank, stand, and light rack......Hopefully I can get the last couple coats of poly on the racks and get them mounted up out of the way......
I had gotten the 2"x2" angle iron from the metal shop earlier, and had started dry fitting the pieces.....Then I realized that I had to cut dado joints into the tank where the angle iron would be seated......That was a very tedious process and rather messy.....Messy being that I did this in house in the family room.....Imagine my wife's suprise

I did take the time to tarp the work area to minimize the dust.......I got all the joints cut and went back to dry fitting all the pieces and making the necessary cuts on the metal chop saw. With all that in place it was time to get down to business.
How I went about the process was to tack weld the assembly in stages....being top frame and then the bottom frame. I only tacked them at first to make sure all the measurements were correct and the fit was good....Had to do alittle tweaking, but got everything done nice and neat. The next step was to mix up the West System Epoxy...This is the primary epoxy I will be using for this build. Definitely not the cheapest, but I like the companies reputation of their product. I mixed up the 2 part epoxy and after mixing, I added the West Systems 404 High Density Filler, which is used for high strength applications and joints, and for bonding brackets and such......With that said it takes the epoxy from a real runny state, to a more thickened mix....I applied the thickened epoxy to both the groove cut into the tank and also to the underside of the 2"x2" angle iron frame and set it into place....There was a bit of oozing, but that was easily cleaned up. I repeated the same process for the bottom of the tank. The sides were alittle more tricky.......The trick was that I couldn't weld them into place before the epoxy was added, and didn't want to weld on the tank, while the epoxy was still setting up.....I know I shouldn't have, but YES....I drug the welder in the house while the wife and daughters were gone after the epoxy was setup and got everything welded into place....It took me a bit of practice throughout the week getting the right settings on the welder as to not disturb the epoxy underneath and not to transfer extreme amounts of heat to the tank(wood) itself.....PRACTICE, PRACTICE AND MORE PRACTICE

. Finally it's complete....the metal framing is in

I should have mentioned I predrilled holes accordingly to run screws down in to use as clamps till the epoxy setup and prior planning, which I sometime forget about, I had countersunk the holes so the screw heads weren't exposed, which will make it super sweet when I apply the skin over the angle iron to conceal it......
A couple of pics of the progress.........

 

[acrylic51]

As you can see in the pics I have already cut out the viewing areas on the left side that will be seen from the viewing area, and the right side of the tank has also been cut out for the acrylic external wavebox to be put into place as well.....You can also see from the middle pic of the tank facing you upside down how open the top actually is....Like I had mentioned earlier I'm trying to avoid any cross bracing, by doing the 6" eurobracing and the metal reinforcement framing as well. Time will tell, but I'm going to build in a way to attach a cross brace if needed during the filling stages. I'd rather already have it in place, than to have to go back afterwards.
Here are a couple more pics.......

 

[2quills]

That looks friggin sweet, man. Dado cutting the edges for the angle iron to sit flush with the surface of the wood was deffinately a great idea. I take it the layout of the squares on the bottom of the tank will be where the bulkheads are going to go for the CL stuff. I bet that sucker is starting to get pretty heavy now.

 

[acrylic51]

Thanks !!!!! I can't take credit for the idea of cutting the dado for the angle to sit flush....DSanford, and AcroSteve did it before me.....They have totally sweet setups...A lot of inspiration for me....The tank isn't real heavy at all at this point. I can still muscle it around even with my back. I figure I will have to test the surgeons work throughout this build and when it comes time to lift the tank into place....
The little tabs are more for checking levelness of the bottom, so when I lay my level across, I can gauge how much variance I have...It really isn't a lot, but more than what I want. I've come up with a solution, that I'm going to pour epoxy to build me a perfectly flat level bottom, and keep pouring till it's perfect. Should probably take 1 pour....it's less then a 1/8" out....
I'll have to post some pics later to show the progression on the stand, and my mounting ideas as well....

 

[acrylic51]

Just a couple new pics to give you guys a perspective as to how the tank will actually sit in the room....Again nothing is permanently attached to the stand. Still trying to work out how I want to go about attaching the skin, and still have it totally removable in a pinch. The piece above the stand is part of the project to, because I want to make it appear;or seem that it's all 1. The center will be able to open, to allow feeding from the front of the tank. Honestly I don't have any intention of doing that, but it will also make maintenance and aquascaping easier with access from the front. The side wall of the tank, I will have to do alittle modification, and pull the surround sound speaker and mount my panel and reinstall. Should have thought about that ahead of time, but I love my Nascar so I need the sound back there as well

As far as the front opening, I'm considering using gas shocks. Kind of like what they use on hatchbacks and such. I have a pretty good source on them, just need to get everything framed out and mocked up to know exactly how much of a throw or lift I need.
Excuse the mess on the top of the stand.....

 

[acrylic51]

Alittle more on the stand....I've been thinking about how I want to attach the trim on the corner that protrudes out into the room. This trim area needs to be removable in the event I need to remove the front skin from the stand. With that said here is 1 idea I've come up with. I am thinking about using bed runners. I found these at my local WoodCraft store. Anyone else have another other suggestions? I've also thought about either purchasing wood runners like on kitchen tables how the center leaf can be pulled.
Also is a pic of the adjustable ball stops I will be using on the cabinets of the stand. Again looking for ideas on how I could go about making the trim on the extruding corner totally removable......????????

The 1st & 3rd pic are of the ball catches and the other pics are of the bed frame connectors.

 

[acrylic51]

I keep referring to the corner trim piece that I need to be totally removable, and the purpose of the bed rail connectors. Again any tips or other ideas lets hear them.

 

[2quills]

hmmm...are you farmiliar with what a snap track is? Typically I've seen them used on transition pieces for flooring...usually the laminate type stuff...they sell em lowes and what not. But you basically have a thin track in which the transition piece essentially snaps into and it's removable. Perhaps if you got a hold of some of those track pieces and maybe run some dado cuts in the right spots and set them so they are flush with the surface of the skin you could attach a small strip of wood on the back of the trim thus allowing the trim to snap into the track on the surface of the skin.

 

[acrylic51]

Fantastic idea....I know exactly what your talking about....I've done quite a bit of hardwood flooring and know what your meaning. I will have to go there in the morning and check and see if I can find something...Worse case I could buy a cheap section and make it work....Thanks....anyone else with other ingenious ideas????

 

[acrylic51]

Thanks 2Quills....also looked at this type of track with using T bolts, or I could buy the slot cutting bit, and cut my own track and thread the T bolts into the back of the trim panel?????

 

[spanko]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/3282860
Thanks 2Quills....also looked at this type of track with using T bolts, or I could buy the slot cutting bit, and cut my own track and thread the T bolts into the back of the trim panel?????

But then the length of the trim pc. would have to travel the length slot until the T-bolt exited the track no? I like the snap track idea better myself.