An exchange I had with Rush Limbaugh...

[lovethesea]

Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2575570
You really do not know why he keeps asking it ?
Seriously your kidding right ?
Makes me lol every time I see him ask it.

color me stupid, but no I don't.
Stdreb noted that he didn't see it in the posts.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by digitydash
http:///forum/post/2575609
If this is how they gauge unemployment this is a flawed system if you ask me their many more I am sure that do not take this survey.I have never gotten any of these surveys.An who is saying this goverment is not puting a spin on unemployment for their pat on the back where doing so good.If some of you don't think we a in a recesion your kiding yourself.Only company really making any money is fuel and company that you need their products everyday.Soon this will be slowing down.Between increases in fuel,food,electric....ect.ect It has to break sometime and I think it coming soon.Who want to work just to scrap by and let all these big company get rich.This economy sucks and you that don't believe can keep living with your head buried in the sand.Reality will be coming.
The accuracy of the samples are mathamatically calculated to be within a certian margin of error. And it is based on assumptions and a educated guess as to what a good sample is. But if you are going to throw out the good unemployment rate, then by all means lets throw out the % of people getting forclosed on too. After all that is just another sample.
Oh and then lets throw out all the polls that say consumer confidence is down. How about the sample data measuring global tempurature? After all those are just samples too.

 

[theclemsonkid]

Let me bring this all back to my original point.
The thing that bothers me, is that some people refuse to admit there is a major, MAJOR problem in the work force. That's all I ever meant by making that call. People like Rush Limbaugh want all his listeners to believe that everything is "ok", when clearly it is not.
And I am well aware that the left is just as bad as the right. I didn't mean to make this left vs. right. I just wish that people wouldn't keep coming up with ways to tell me we aren't in a recession, when we OBVIOUSLY are.
You can use your GDP numbers, and job growth rates, and consumer spendings all you like.
I'll use real life where places are going out of business, people are losing their jobs, the dollar is losing it's value, gas prices just keep going up, and now inflation is starting to kick in.
If that's not technically a "recession" then fine, I'll just call it a "downward spiral" economy.
And you don't the rust belt losing the steel mills has anything to do with a degree in architectural engineering?
Without the mills, all the money left, and without any money, no one builds new buildings. Not just the mills themselves, but all the millions of dollars that are generated in the local economy FROM those mills.
Without a booming economy, strip malls and shopping plazas (which I work in) have been shutting down and demolished. And why is that? Because the people who USED to work in those mills are now unemployed and can't spend any money.
So please explain to me how the fact I live in the rust belt doesn't affect me with my degree...

 

[theclemsonkid]

Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2575166
I was hoping that the screener would catch on to the fact that I was oblivious to the economic stimulus package that will be sending every tax paying American $1,200 next month.
(QUOTE]
You sure "every tax paying American" is getting the check? This "typical white guy" is not. I must not be a "working man" even after putting in 56 hours this week.
Clemson,
You sound "bitter". Do you have a Bible or a gun to "cling" to in these times of need?
Anyone wants to start a degree micturation match, I'm in!
I am not completely sure about this, but I believe anyone who paid taxes in 2007 is eligible for $600? I used $1,200 because I am married...

 

[stdreb27]

Seriously the number's shoved at you by your college people are there to attract you into their department to get funding. They are inflated.
I lived in a town with 30 thousand people. If I wanted to get a job that paid more than 10 dollars an hour I had to move. And I did. Clearly your home is worth more to you than the difference you'd be making if you moved somewhere with alot of construction. Which is fine, except you are whining about how much you aren't getting paid. (and why you got into that field and were not willing to move is beyond me because engineering and construction managment is a field where you will have to relocate)
Using your same logic, of your tiny sample of friends in an area that is run by democrats, and blue blooded republicans. I could sample my friends of college graduates in an area run by conservatives. Most of my friends make more than they thought they were out of college. I wanted to double my salary and did that. Most of my friends with engineering degrees are making over 60 grand right out of college first job. Heck in my small sample of a world the job market is so in need of bodies they have recruitment golf turnys. The office I'm in has tripled in size in the last 2 years and they are offering us 5000 dollars if we refer an aplicant who gets hired.
the problem with you libs, and you are my new cookie cutter example is that you take an isolated set of circumstances then try to cast it off as a norm. Ignoring the bigger picture.

 

[1journeyman]

Clemson, in the town I live in north of Fort Worth, the Post Office has told their drivers to expect 4,000 new homes in the next 5 years. (about a 25% increase). Property values have gone up 15% in the past few years. 2 new strip centers have opened and are full of new businesses.
So, if we are basing this strictly on personal observation I can tell you the economy is booming.
Clearly, that is not fair though. We can't judge something like our personal observations to form a framework for the state of the national economy.

 

[theclemsonkid]

Alright, so I have my example (the bad) and you have yours (the good).
Fair enough.
My question then becomes why is the dollar tanking, and inflation rising, and wages not keeping up, and foreclosures and bad loans such a problem?
My guess is it's not because the economy in general is "booming", that's for sure...

 

[theclemsonkid]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2575658
Seriously the number's shoved at you by your college people are there to attract you into their department to get funding. They are inflated.
I lived in a town with 30 thousand people. If I wanted to get a job that paid more than 10 dollars an hour I had to move. And I did. Clearly your home is worth more to you than the difference you'd be making if you moved somewhere with alot of construction. Which is fine, except you are whining about how much you aren't getting paid. (and why you got into that field and were not willing to move is beyond me because engineering and construction managment is a field where you will have to relocate)
Using your same logic, of your tiny sample of friends in an area that is run by democrats, and blue blooded republicans. I could sample my friends of college graduates in an area run by conservatives. Most of my friends make more than they thought they were out of college. I wanted to double my salary and did that. Most of my friends with engineering degrees are making over 60 grand right out of college first job. Heck in my small sample of a world the job market is so in need of bodies they have recruitment golf turnys. The office I'm in has tripled in size in the last 2 years and they are offering us 5000 dollars if we refer an aplicant who gets hired.
the problem with you libs, and you are my new cookie cutter example is that you take an isolated set of circumstances then try to cast it off as a norm. Ignoring the bigger picture.
And I'm just curious what makes me a "lib", or what a "lib" even is. I'm a registered republican if that makes any difference. And up until just recently, I mostly voted that way.

 

[tizzo]

Originally Posted by TangMan99
http:///forum/post/2575514
I'll take a few weeks off to hit the gym to get the body back in shape and them I'm going to hang a webcam in my shower and start a website. Subscriptions are $19.99 a month.

We've obviously gone way off topic. The initial topic was that Rush hung up on him...
Now we need to persue more interesting topics...
Like that web cam? I say, Why wait.

Make money now! Save!
Forget college! I say we all start web cam businesses.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2575652
Let me bring this all back to my original point.
The thing that bothers me, is that some people refuse to admit there is a major, MAJOR problem in the work force. That's all I ever meant by making that call. People like Rush Limbaugh want all his listeners to believe that everything is "ok", when clearly it is not.
And I am well aware that the left is just as bad as the right. I didn't mean to make this left vs. right. I just wish that people wouldn't keep coming up with ways to tell me we aren't in a recession, when we OBVIOUSLY are.
You can use your GDP numbers, and job growth rates, and consumer spendings all you like.
I'll use real life where places are going out of business, people are losing their jobs, the dollar is losing it's value, gas prices just keep going up, and now inflation is starting to kick in.
If that's not technically a "recession" then fine, I'll just call it a "downward spiral" economy.
And you don't the rust belt losing the steel mills has anything to do with a degree in architectural engineering?
Without the mills, all the money left, and without any money, no one builds new buildings. Not just the mills themselves, but all the millions of dollars that are generated in the local economy FROM those mills.
Without a booming economy, strip malls and shopping plazas (which I work in) have been shutting down and demolished. And why is that? Because the people who USED to work in those mills are now unemployed and can't spend any money.
So please explain to me how the fact I live in the rust belt doesn't affect me with my degree...
None of your arguments are measurable. The great thing about things like the GDP, unemployment rates the CPI and other indicators is that they are measurable.
As for Limbaugh, his calls aren't to allow the free discourse of opinion, and he doesn't even claim they are, they are simply to drive his point home. So i really don't know what your problem was. That is what he does.
The funny thing is you do help one of his points. He has several times in the past argued that people sit there and while about their jobs but are unwilling to move...
You can take your point, back by your sample of the people around you. But one could also look at salaries which are increasing at a higher rate than inflation.
You are also looking at your own perception of the your town and whatnot, but he is going to argue on a nationwide level.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2575672
And I'm just curious what makes me a "lib", or what a "lib" even is. I'm a registered republican if that makes any difference. And up until just recently, I mostly voted that way.
I'm just going off of your embrace of liberal arugments. And the "until recently" means I'm not that far off.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2575683
We've obviously gone way off topic. The initial topic was that Rush hung up on him...
Now we need to persue more interesting topics...
Like that web cam? I say, Why wait.

Make money now! Save!
Forget college! I say we all start web cam businesses.

I don't think many people have a thing for slightly overweight hairy half breeds taking a shower. So I think i'll pass.

 

[theclemsonkid]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2575686
You are also looking at your own perception of the your town and whatnot, but he is going to argue on a nationwide level.
Exactly! He SHOULD be arguing on a NATIONAL level. Where like I said before, the dollar is tanking, were losing jobs, inflation is much higher than rising wages, people are losing their homes, etc, etc.
The fact that he tries to HIDE that the economy is doing so bad is what bothers me.
this guy has an audience of millions, where he could actually change things for the better if he so chose. Instead, he takes people who make valid points like myself, and hangs up on us...

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2575669
Alright, so I have my example (the bad) and you have yours (the good).
Fair enough.
My question then becomes why is the dollar tanking, and inflation rising, and wages not keeping up, and foreclosures and bad loans such a problem?
My guess is it's not because the economy in general is "booming", that's for sure...
The dollar is tanking, among other reasons, because of low Interest Rates. Inflation, while rising, still is well within reasonable. wages aren't "keeping" up because we're coming off a "boom" in the economy, and bad loans are a problem because people lived outside of their means.
I'm not saying we aren't in a recession, the numbers so far, however, haven't shown such.
Our economy has been on steroids for several years. Most people expected it to eventually slow down.

 

[digitydash]

A big problem with the m orgage crisis is realitor and the banks where over pricing house and giving out fluctuating m orgages insted of geting a fixed rate because they didn't have enough credit.It is great when the intrest rate is low but when it increases a m orgage that you could afford goes up 2% and your payment goes up 50 to 100% .I bought my house in 2000 for $103,000 .When the housing boom was going on a house acrossed the street sold for $400,000 a bedroom and bathroom less then mine and without a pool.That house is a forclosure now also.Rite now just on my street their is 6 house out of 20 on the block under forclosure.

 

[beth]

And lets just keep one little detail in mind....it's an election year. A very hot election year. If disaster was not just around the bend in the USA, then it wouldn't probably be an election year.

Somehow I think we will be rescued from the brink of societal and economic ruin come Jan 09.

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2575544
I am not completely sure about this, but I believe anyone who paid taxes in 2007 is eligible for $600? I used $1,200 because I am married...
From the IRS website:
According to law, the economic stimulus payment amount that you would otherwise be entitled to receive is reduced by 5% of the amount that your Tax Year 2007 Adjusted Gross Income exceeds $150,000. You would have been eligible for an economic stimulus payment of $2100, but your AGI exceeds $150,000 by enough to reduce that amount to zero.
So.....
Those who pay NO tax get a check (but you have to file a return). I who pay LOTS of tax get nothing. Wealth redistribution. Punishing the hard working and educated. My income is not in the "rich" bracket. Bill Gates, LeBron James are rich. I'm a physician with $20,000 in debt from medical school still, and I graduated in 1995. I am taking the brunt of the regressive tax code. I make enough to be "rich" by IRS code, yet do not make enough to be unaffected by the tax bracket I am in. Warren Buffet does not care is he is in a 60% tax bracket. 40% of 100 million is still 40 million. 40% of what I make will hardly pay the bills.
Is a family income of $150,000 really "rich" today?
I could have really used that $2100.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2575522
They do check that, but it isn't the basis of the "unemployment rate."
Where do the statistics come from?
Because unemployment insurance records, which many people think are the source of total unemployment data, relate only to persons who have applied for such benefits, and since it is impractical to actually count every unemployed person each month, the Government conducts a monthly sample survey called the Current Population Survey (CPS) to measure the extent of unemployment in the country. The CPS has been conducted in the United States every month since 1940 when it began as a Work Projects Administration project. It has been expanded and modified several times since then. As explained later, the CPS estimates, beginning in 1994, reflect the results of a major redesign of the survey.http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_faq.htm#Ques2
Oh man, you just blew the Democrat party's favorite propaganda line right out of the water.

Funny thing is people in the rust belt complain about Bush yet jobs in that area have been going overseas for decades. One major reason, for better or worse is increased environmental regulation which of course are only enacted by Democrats

About 3 years ago a town in western Wyoming was hiring for a position. Pay started at 12.00 and hour and included a 401K program. The job was a pizza delivery driver for Pizza Hut. The job market there is so tight it's crazy. They had a major natural gas strike in the late 90's and they can't hire people fast enough. Anyone with a heartbeat can make 25 or 30 grand a year right out of high school.
Some years back the company I worked for was hurting for a person with my experience in their Colorado terratory, I was in Montana at the time. The opening bid to get me to consider making a move was 12,000.00 a year. Same job, slightly higher cost of living but not much. Only real difference was in colorado there were more jobs out there so the companies had to pay more to keep people around.
I took a huge pay cut to move from SoCal to Arizona. Took another to go to Montana. Finally got to the point where the opportunity for advancement (and about a 30% increase in pay) for my wife outweight the quality of life factor and we moved to the Denver area.
The wage issue isn't new. It was there in the 80's when I first considered moving to Arizona. All things considered I's take Reagans economy over Bush or Clintons either one. Myself and about everyone I know dis beeter under Reagan. I personally have done better under Bush than Clinton but most the people I know have faired about equally under both.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2575779
And lets just keep one little detail in mind....it's an election year. A very hot election year. If disaster was not just around the bend in the USA, then it wouldn't probably be an election year.

Somehow I think we will be rescued from the brink of societal and economic ruin come Jan 09.

If a democrat is in office... Although if McCain does win, they'll be pretty happy anyways.
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2575785
Oh man, you just blew the Democrat party's favorite propaganda line right out of the water.

Funny thing is people in the rust belt complain about Bush yet jobs in that area have been going overseas for decades. One major reason, for better or worse is increased environmental regulation which of course are only enacted by Democrats

About 3 years ago a town in western Wyoming was hiring for a position. Pay started at 12.00 and hour and included a 401K program. The job was a pizza delivery driver for Pizza Hut. The job market there is so tight it's crazy. They had a major natural gas strike in the late 90's and they can't hire people fast enough. Anyone with a heartbeat can make 25 or 30 grand a year right out of high school.
Some years back the company I worked for was hurting for a person with my experience in their Colorado terratory, I was in Montana at the time. The opening bid to get me to consider making a move was 12,000.00 a year. Same job, slightly higher cost of living but not much. Only real difference was in colorado there were more jobs out there so the companies had to pay more to keep people around.
I took a huge pay cut to move from SoCal to Arizona. Took another to go to Montana. Finally got to the point where the opportunity for advancement (and about a 30% increase in pay) for my wife outweight the quality of life factor and we moved to the Denver area.
The wage issue isn't new. It was there in the 80's when I first considered moving to Arizona. All things considered I's take Reagans economy over Bush or Clintons either one. Myself and about everyone I know dis beeter under Reagan. I personally have done better under Bush than Clinton but most the people I know have faired about equally under both.
I just quoted what the BLS says.
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2575695
Exactly! He SHOULD be arguing on a NATIONAL level. Where like I said before, the dollar is tanking, were losing jobs, inflation is much higher than rising wages, people are losing their homes, etc, etc.
The fact that he tries to HIDE that the economy is doing so bad is what bothers me.
this guy has an audience of millions, where he could actually change things for the better if he so chose. Instead, he takes people who make valid points like myself, and hangs up on us...
I majored in economics. I can go find 10 profs who would disagree that the economy is so bad. Although bad is a relative term. You'd have to define bad first.
For you who lives in a manufacturing sector of the nation, a weak dollar is a christmas present. It makes our products more price competitive abroad. I just yesterday read an article about the Europeans moaning about the strong Euro saying that the weak american dollar is putting them out of business.
I'll have to revisit the numbers but last I read, wages were increasing by more than the rate of inflation. I don't remember if it was for the 1st quarter or what.
One of my professors likes to call people with your arguments as suffering from chicken little syndrome. But you must understand economics are a hard breed, the freedman economics are more than willing to let a sagging sector of the economy dissapear. Do you remember Margaret Thatcher and the coal miners strike? The problem is, if we keep propping up industries that wouldn't make it on its own. Eventually we aren't going to be able to hold it up anymore and that crash will be far more painful. Then letting it contract as the market dictates.
I don't see how one person no matter how large the audience could change the economic direction of our country. No one person hold that much power. Although the chair of the federal reserve could try to wreck it and be somewhat successful if he got the board to go along with it.

 

[tangman99]

Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2575656
From the IRS website:
According to law, the economic stimulus payment amount that you would otherwise be entitled to receive is reduced by 5% of the amount that your Tax Year 2007 Adjusted Gross Income exceeds $150,000. You would have been eligible for an economic stimulus payment of $2100, but your AGI exceeds $150,000 by enough to reduce that amount to zero.
So.....
Those who pay NO tax get a check (but you have to file a return). I who pay LOTS of tax get nothing. Wealth redistribution. Punishing the hard working and educated. My income is not in the "rich" bracket. Bill Gates, LeBron James are rich. I'm a physician with $20,000 in debt from medical school still, and I graduated in 1995. I am taking the brunt of the regressive tax code. I make enough to be "rich" by IRS code, yet do not make enough to be unaffected by the tax bracket I am in. Warren Buffet does not care is he is in a 60% tax bracket. 40% of 100 million is still 40 million. 40% of what I make will hardly pay the bills.
Is a family income of $150,000 really "rich" today?
I could have really used that $2100.
Hey Bro'
I'm not getting it either. But what can you do?