BIGUN Has A BOOBOO
- Thread starter meowzer
- Start date
meowzer
Moderator
Originally Posted by TeresaQ
http:///forum/post/3067255
I am so so sorry this is happening. I cant beleive he is still fighting so hard.
Let me know how its going
TeresaQ
He is a fighter isn't he.....so far he is just resting on the castle...AND it is the castle holding him up.....
T...Do you have any clue what could be wrong with the eye?
http:///forum/post/3067255
I am so so sorry this is happening. I cant beleive he is still fighting so hard.
Let me know how its going
TeresaQ
He is a fighter isn't he.....so far he is just resting on the castle...AND it is the castle holding him up.....
T...Do you have any clue what could be wrong with the eye?
meowzer
Moderator
Originally Posted by TeresaQ
http:///forum/post/3067263
pop eye is usually water quality and nutrition. Is he eatting anything
T
I don't think so the last 2 days.....I thought he went after something yesterday..But I really don't know....
If he is...I am sure it is very little...I am putting drops of vita-chem on the pe....so at least that gets in the water
Tomorrow I may have to talk to someone about tube feeding
http:///forum/post/3067263
pop eye is usually water quality and nutrition. Is he eatting anything
T
I don't think so the last 2 days.....I thought he went after something yesterday..But I really don't know....
If he is...I am sure it is very little...I am putting drops of vita-chem on the pe....so at least that gets in the water
Tomorrow I may have to talk to someone about tube feeding
danu
Member
I am not surprised at his reaction after the injection. I would almost expect that. Hitch and upright now is a positive sign.
I believe the eye lends to the theory that the infection has spread.
Given the choice with the Praziquantel and the Chloroquine, I would probably opt for the Chloroquine. Prazi targets cestodes and monogeans. Chloroquine would primarily target ciliates. If this is secondary to Uronema, then Chloroquine would be indicated. I would probably give him a day or two to see if he responds to the Baytril first. The combination of the two may be too much for him.
Tube feeding is probably a good idea. He needs nutrition!
Dan
I believe the eye lends to the theory that the infection has spread.
Given the choice with the Praziquantel and the Chloroquine, I would probably opt for the Chloroquine. Prazi targets cestodes and monogeans. Chloroquine would primarily target ciliates. If this is secondary to Uronema, then Chloroquine would be indicated. I would probably give him a day or two to see if he responds to the Baytril first. The combination of the two may be too much for him.
Tube feeding is probably a good idea. He needs nutrition!
Dan
meowzer
Moderator
Thanks Dan....I will research the tube feeding....I sure don't want to kill him by trying to feed him....
The castle he is resting on is actually what is holding him up right now....he has not moved from that spot...I am just watching him...hoping he will do something...anything...
The castle he is resting on is actually what is holding him up right now....he has not moved from that spot...I am just watching him...hoping he will do something...anything...
nw2salt08
Active Member
Goodness! I go to the gym for a few hours and come home to all this.... Hopefully this helps. I could only imagine how to tubefeed a small one like Bigun. I can understand why you'd want to though. Any nutrition is better than none at this point.
Oo....now here's a thought. Don't know if it'd help any or not, but if you use the praziquantel couldn't you gutload the shrimp and tubefeed them to him if he's too weak to catch them himself? From what I was reading in Ann's post, digestion would be the ideal method. Just a thought.
I'm really hoping things work out.... I've been checking this thread ever since it started and have been on the edge of my seat hoping.... If you need anything just ask. I'll try to help as much as possible.
Oo....now here's a thought. Don't know if it'd help any or not, but if you use the praziquantel couldn't you gutload the shrimp and tubefeed them to him if he's too weak to catch them himself? From what I was reading in Ann's post, digestion would be the ideal method. Just a thought.
I'm really hoping things work out.... I've been checking this thread ever since it started and have been on the edge of my seat hoping.... If you need anything just ask. I'll try to help as much as possible.
meowzer
Moderator
Originally Posted by Nw2Salt08
http:///forum/post/3067365
Goodness! I go to the gym for a few hours and come home to all this.... Hopefully this helps. I could only imagine how to tubefeed a small one like Bigun. I can understand why you'd want to though. Any nutrition is better than none at this point.
Oo....now here's a thought. Don't know if it'd help any or not, but if you use the praziquantel couldn't you gutload the shrimp and tubefeed them to him if he's too weak to catch them himself? From what I was reading in Ann's post, digestion would be the ideal method. Just a thought.
I'm really hoping things work out.... I've been checking this thread ever since it started and have been on the edge of my seat hoping.... If you need anything just ask. I'll try to help as much as possible.
LOL...You want to come over and tube feed him for me
Thank you so much for your thoughts...I have sat here on the edge of my seat for the past few weeks now just watching him....well...I hate to say this...deteriorate. I (WE) have come this far...I will try anything that is in my power to save him...
http:///forum/post/3067365
Goodness! I go to the gym for a few hours and come home to all this.... Hopefully this helps. I could only imagine how to tubefeed a small one like Bigun. I can understand why you'd want to though. Any nutrition is better than none at this point.
Oo....now here's a thought. Don't know if it'd help any or not, but if you use the praziquantel couldn't you gutload the shrimp and tubefeed them to him if he's too weak to catch them himself? From what I was reading in Ann's post, digestion would be the ideal method. Just a thought.
I'm really hoping things work out.... I've been checking this thread ever since it started and have been on the edge of my seat hoping.... If you need anything just ask. I'll try to help as much as possible.
LOL...You want to come over and tube feed him for me
Thank you so much for your thoughts...I have sat here on the edge of my seat for the past few weeks now just watching him....well...I hate to say this...deteriorate. I (WE) have come this far...I will try anything that is in my power to save him...
meowzer
Moderator
Originally Posted by TeresaQ
http:///forum/post/3067372
I will be out until around 2 tomorrow, but please let me know how it goes.
I'm pullin for you both
T
I will....thanks I appreciate it
http:///forum/post/3067372
I will be out until around 2 tomorrow, but please let me know how it goes.
I'm pullin for you both
T
I will....thanks I appreciate it
nw2salt08
Active Member
You'd probably do a better job than I would. lol I'm used to tube feeding the big horses when they're sick. I wouldn't begin to know how far down to go to get to the stomach or how much a seahorse's stomach can hold.
I'm sure you'll do fine. You've done so well with him already. I have found some information on tube feeding though. Here it is.
Someone with access to medical supplies. A local sympathetic veterinarian is a good option.
A high quality food. Frozen Mysis or a high quality flake can be used. My preference is PE mysis. It has an outstanding nutritional profile. It is 69.9% protein and rich in HUFAs.
A very narrow catheter. I use a plastic intravenous catheter with the introducer needle removed from the center and properly disposed of in a sharps container, perhaps prior to leaving the vets office with your supplies. I would suggest an 18 to 25g depending on the diameter of your horses snout. I used a 20g on my 6 to 7" erectus. The smaller the horse or the narrower the snout the smaller the cathethter you will need. The cathether size is inversely proportional to the # gauge it is assigned. So an 18g has a wider lumen than a 24g.
A 1cc syringe.
A bowl. It should be wide enough and deep enough to allow for your horse to remain submerged while your assistant holds him and you administer the feeding.
An assistant. Preferably someone who is not to squeamish.
Tank water.
A spoon.
A small bowl.
Distilled water.
An area to work that is well lit.
WHAT TO PREPARE:
Gather all your supplies.
Review the GI tract of the seahorse in Seahorse Anatomy 101 in the syngnathid.org Library. Pay particular attention to the esophagus, stomach and intestines.
Clear and clean a well lit work space.
Wash and rinse your hands well.
Prepare the food by placing a small amount of previously defrosted and enriched mysis in the small bowl. With the convex side of your spoon, mash the mysis into a smooth paste.
Add a few drops of distilled water and mix thoroughly. You will need to experiment and play here a bit in order to get the paste to a consistency that will easily, smoothly, and consistently flow through the tip of the catheter when gentle pressure is applied to the plunger of the syringe. The smaller the diameter of catheter (larger gauge #) you are using the more dilute and thinner the gruel will need to be.
Once you have a consistency you think is appropriate, draw some of the gruel into the syringe and attach the catheter to the syringe. The tip of the syringe is usually threaded and the catheter will screw on to it. Gently apply pressure to the plunger of the syringe to be sure the gruel flows through the tip of the catheter easily, smoothly and consistently. Adjust the consistency of the gruel as necessary by adding more distilled water or more mysis paste until it flows smoothly through the catheter with VERY gentle pressure on the plunger. No force should be exerted at all.
Flush the syringe and catheter several times by drawing a small amount of distilled water into the syringe and pushing it back out.
Draw into the syringe a little more gruel than you intend to feed. I fed 0.2ccs to 0.25ccs to a 6" to 7" erectus. You are going to have to estimate the appropriate amount based on the size of your horse. This is where the Seahorse Anatomy page will come in handy. Since the seahorse's digestive tract is basically a straight tube from snout to anus you can use their length as a general guideline to estimate the portion size.
Start with the plunger of the syringe fully depressed, pull up on the plunger and draw about 0.3 to 0.4 ccs of the mysis mixture into the syringe. Any air in the syringe will need to be removed. Invert the syringe holding it vertically tip up, plunger down. Gently tap on the syringe several times. The air will displace the gruel appearing as a bubble at the tip of the syringe. Gently depress the plunger with the syringe remaining in the inverted position, so you will be pushing up on the plunger. Continue to depress the plunger until all the air has been expressed from the syringe and a small amount of gruel appears at the syringe tip.
Attach the catheter to the syringe and prime it by depressing the plunger until a few drops of gruel emerge from the catheter tip.
OK now you are ready to actually feed the little bugger... whoops... sorry... your sweet little hunger striking horse.
I'm sure you'll do fine. You've done so well with him already. I have found some information on tube feeding though. Here it is.
Someone with access to medical supplies. A local sympathetic veterinarian is a good option.
A high quality food. Frozen Mysis or a high quality flake can be used. My preference is PE mysis. It has an outstanding nutritional profile. It is 69.9% protein and rich in HUFAs.
A very narrow catheter. I use a plastic intravenous catheter with the introducer needle removed from the center and properly disposed of in a sharps container, perhaps prior to leaving the vets office with your supplies. I would suggest an 18 to 25g depending on the diameter of your horses snout. I used a 20g on my 6 to 7" erectus. The smaller the horse or the narrower the snout the smaller the cathethter you will need. The cathether size is inversely proportional to the # gauge it is assigned. So an 18g has a wider lumen than a 24g.
A 1cc syringe.
A bowl. It should be wide enough and deep enough to allow for your horse to remain submerged while your assistant holds him and you administer the feeding.
An assistant. Preferably someone who is not to squeamish.
Tank water.
A spoon.
A small bowl.
Distilled water.
An area to work that is well lit.
WHAT TO PREPARE:
Gather all your supplies.
Review the GI tract of the seahorse in Seahorse Anatomy 101 in the syngnathid.org Library. Pay particular attention to the esophagus, stomach and intestines.
Clear and clean a well lit work space.
Wash and rinse your hands well.
Prepare the food by placing a small amount of previously defrosted and enriched mysis in the small bowl. With the convex side of your spoon, mash the mysis into a smooth paste.
Add a few drops of distilled water and mix thoroughly. You will need to experiment and play here a bit in order to get the paste to a consistency that will easily, smoothly, and consistently flow through the tip of the catheter when gentle pressure is applied to the plunger of the syringe. The smaller the diameter of catheter (larger gauge #) you are using the more dilute and thinner the gruel will need to be.
Once you have a consistency you think is appropriate, draw some of the gruel into the syringe and attach the catheter to the syringe. The tip of the syringe is usually threaded and the catheter will screw on to it. Gently apply pressure to the plunger of the syringe to be sure the gruel flows through the tip of the catheter easily, smoothly and consistently. Adjust the consistency of the gruel as necessary by adding more distilled water or more mysis paste until it flows smoothly through the catheter with VERY gentle pressure on the plunger. No force should be exerted at all.
Flush the syringe and catheter several times by drawing a small amount of distilled water into the syringe and pushing it back out.
Draw into the syringe a little more gruel than you intend to feed. I fed 0.2ccs to 0.25ccs to a 6" to 7" erectus. You are going to have to estimate the appropriate amount based on the size of your horse. This is where the Seahorse Anatomy page will come in handy. Since the seahorse's digestive tract is basically a straight tube from snout to anus you can use their length as a general guideline to estimate the portion size.
Start with the plunger of the syringe fully depressed, pull up on the plunger and draw about 0.3 to 0.4 ccs of the mysis mixture into the syringe. Any air in the syringe will need to be removed. Invert the syringe holding it vertically tip up, plunger down. Gently tap on the syringe several times. The air will displace the gruel appearing as a bubble at the tip of the syringe. Gently depress the plunger with the syringe remaining in the inverted position, so you will be pushing up on the plunger. Continue to depress the plunger until all the air has been expressed from the syringe and a small amount of gruel appears at the syringe tip.
Attach the catheter to the syringe and prime it by depressing the plunger until a few drops of gruel emerge from the catheter tip.
OK now you are ready to actually feed the little bugger... whoops... sorry... your sweet little hunger striking horse.
nw2salt08
Active Member
HOW TO DO IT
Pound up your assistant. Take a few deep breaths and relax.
Fill the large bowl with your horse's tank water.
Remove your horse from the tank by gently scooting him into a small container and gently release him into the bowl of tank water.
Have your assistant firmly but gently hold the horse, keeping him submerged at all times. His head and neck should be between their thumb and forefinger, snout pointing up, with his body lying across their palm. Encourage him to curl his tail around their pinky. This will help to keep the horse calm. If you have never held a seahorse in your hand you may be surprised at how strong they are. He may struggle or even snick. Boy oh boy was I surprised at how powerful their snick is.
Take the previously filled and primed syringe into your dominant hand.
Loosely hold the horse's snout between the thumb and forefinger of your other hand.
Closely observe the snout tip. It will open and close in synchrony with his respirations.
As the snout opens insert the tip of the catheter into the snout about ½ way between the snout tip and trigger.
Slowly and gently depress the plunger. Try to time injecting tiny bits of the gruel just prior to the closing of the snout. If he is ingesting the gruel you will actually see him swallow and pass some of the food through his gills. He may snick, it will feel strange but don't be alarmed. The first time my boy did it I thought for sure the catheter would break off in his snout. It never did. He did however dent it a bit. That snick is powerful!
If the gruel is coming back out of his snout either you are injecting the gruel to quickly, the catheter tip is not far enough into his snout or you are close to the end of the feeding and his GI tract is full. First check to see if you are close to the end of the estimated amount of the feeding. If so he is probably full and you are done. If not try injecting the gruel a little slower taking care to try and synchronize advancing the plunger just prior to the closing of the snout. If the gruel continues to come back out try advancing the catheter tip just a tad further. Finish the feeding. You may need to give him and yourself a little break if either of the above situations occur and too much of the feeding is lost. Refill the syringe and give him the rest of the estimated amount.
Wooooooo Hoooooooo!!! That's it! You did it! Tell him what a good boy he was, return him to the tank, give yourself a big pat on the back, thank your assistant and take the rest of the evening off in front of your tank with a cup of tea... well... OK, if you insist a cold beer, a glass of wine, or a good stiff drink of your choice. It wasn't that bad now was it? I bet it was easier than you had anticipated. I thought it was.
Hopefully this information helps.
Pound up your assistant. Take a few deep breaths and relax.
Fill the large bowl with your horse's tank water.
Remove your horse from the tank by gently scooting him into a small container and gently release him into the bowl of tank water.
Have your assistant firmly but gently hold the horse, keeping him submerged at all times. His head and neck should be between their thumb and forefinger, snout pointing up, with his body lying across their palm. Encourage him to curl his tail around their pinky. This will help to keep the horse calm. If you have never held a seahorse in your hand you may be surprised at how strong they are. He may struggle or even snick. Boy oh boy was I surprised at how powerful their snick is.
Take the previously filled and primed syringe into your dominant hand.
Loosely hold the horse's snout between the thumb and forefinger of your other hand.
Closely observe the snout tip. It will open and close in synchrony with his respirations.
As the snout opens insert the tip of the catheter into the snout about ½ way between the snout tip and trigger.
Slowly and gently depress the plunger. Try to time injecting tiny bits of the gruel just prior to the closing of the snout. If he is ingesting the gruel you will actually see him swallow and pass some of the food through his gills. He may snick, it will feel strange but don't be alarmed. The first time my boy did it I thought for sure the catheter would break off in his snout. It never did. He did however dent it a bit. That snick is powerful!
If the gruel is coming back out of his snout either you are injecting the gruel to quickly, the catheter tip is not far enough into his snout or you are close to the end of the feeding and his GI tract is full. First check to see if you are close to the end of the estimated amount of the feeding. If so he is probably full and you are done. If not try injecting the gruel a little slower taking care to try and synchronize advancing the plunger just prior to the closing of the snout. If the gruel continues to come back out try advancing the catheter tip just a tad further. Finish the feeding. You may need to give him and yourself a little break if either of the above situations occur and too much of the feeding is lost. Refill the syringe and give him the rest of the estimated amount.
Wooooooo Hoooooooo!!! That's it! You did it! Tell him what a good boy he was, return him to the tank, give yourself a big pat on the back, thank your assistant and take the rest of the evening off in front of your tank with a cup of tea... well... OK, if you insist a cold beer, a glass of wine, or a good stiff drink of your choice. It wasn't that bad now was it? I bet it was easier than you had anticipated. I thought it was.
Hopefully this information helps.
meowzer
Moderator
Well he is hanging in there...I think his belly might look different, but I am not taking him out until I have to feed him
I have a cube of pe mysis, and a cube of cyclops thawing....I printed the feeding directions so I can have them right nect to me....I have read them numerous times and I am still terrified...I have put this off long enough though.
I am not sure what else to add to the food...after I "mush" it and check the "thickness" well....idk
OK...I think I will go read the report again....
I have a cube of pe mysis, and a cube of cyclops thawing....I printed the feeding directions so I can have them right nect to me....I have read them numerous times and I am still terrified...I have put this off long enough though.
I am not sure what else to add to the food...after I "mush" it and check the "thickness" well....idk
OK...I think I will go read the report again....
meowzer
Moderator
Well....I DID IT...(the tube feeding) I have no clue how much he got...some came out and I know it's not supposed to
I need to know now (SOMEONE) when do I try again???
I also put more wound control on his tail while I had him out.
I also have attached a new pic of his tail...it looks TERRIBLE...1st pic is a front shot..you can see at the bottom a new spot
Attachment 226645
This is a side shot showing where you can see it from the side
Attachment 226646
Please let me know what you think....Ann...Dan...anyone
I need to know now (SOMEONE) when do I try again???
I also put more wound control on his tail while I had him out.
I also have attached a new pic of his tail...it looks TERRIBLE...1st pic is a front shot..you can see at the bottom a new spot
Attachment 226645
This is a side shot showing where you can see it from the side
Attachment 226646
Please let me know what you think....Ann...Dan...anyone
dani
Member
Wow. This is the first time I saw this thread and I am pulling for you and your BIGUN. I love horses.. both the sea and the 4 legged kind. In my experiences with the 4 legged variety and Baytril, I've seen a lot of benefit. It also causes them a loss of appetite. But, it is a powerful antibiotic and if it can work miracles in the 4 legged horses, I hope it does the same for your seahorse.
FWIW, this has been a super informative thread, despite the nature of the subject, and will help me tremendously when I decide to attempt a seahorse tank.
FWIW, this has been a super informative thread, despite the nature of the subject, and will help me tremendously when I decide to attempt a seahorse tank.
